I've Improved?!?!?!?

[csmith12]

I got a question for everyone here...

What are some of the signs you look for that lets you know you have improved as a rider?

I already know the big ones everyone is looking for;

No chicken strips
Knee down
Faster lap times
Lifted the rear on the brakes
Won the race!!!

What other evidence brings a smile to your face in the paddock after a session?

[cadd]

Not on a track, but on the streets... When I am able to take the same corner smoother, and feeling my upper body being relaxed and loose. Whereas, last year I was taking that corner slower and more tensed up.

Can't explain what changed or what skills I improved. But I know something was improved. =)

[csmith12]

So Cadd, the feeling of corner confidence. Got it!

And sorry, street riding comments are welcomed just the same.

[alex.s]

crash less

[MrAtom]

Not having as many close calls.

[choneofakind]

Feeling calm and cool through corners that used to worry me.

[snapshot]

Good opening post. Except for lap times and top speeds we riders don't have much in the way of objective standards to go by.

Swapping to a taller rear sprocket at the track because the bike runs up to red-line too soon on the longest straight. Then having to relearn your shift points because that changes things. (Confidence and competence.)

Spending a month practicing a few things, going to the track and finding that some of the people that were "Speed Gods" last month are no longer faster than you. (Confidence and competence.)

Slowing down in the canyon (on the 250) because you can tell the guy on the liter-bike behind you is in way over his head and you don't want him to crash. (Situational awareness.)

Months of riding at a time without a close call. (Situational awareness and planning.)

Setting up to slide through a turn on the way to work, recovering as planned and then going on your merry way. (Stupid, I know, but dayumn was that fun! I don't do it anymore...) (Overconfidence and competence.)

Ride on,

J~

[csmith12]

Jeff

Originally Posted by snapshot

Swapping to a taller rear sprocket at the track because the bike runs up to red-line too soon on the longest straight.

We are gunna come back to this because when I was searching for tangible evidence of getting better. I found I hit redline in places I wasn't expecting, like mid corner or too early on exit.

[snot]

I no longer struggle trying to touch the ground at a stop, I just lean over now.

My bike is now 100% stock height, I can only tippy toe my bike. So, at some intersections I can only touch when I get off one side or lean the bike.

[cbinker]

I can ride longer faster.

[csmith12]

^^^ good one!

[snot]

I smile more while riding, I have more fun.

[cbinker]

if at the track consistent lap times.

[snapshot]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Jeff

We are gunna come back to this because when I was searching for tangible evidence of getting better. I found I hit redline in places I wasn't expecting, like mid corner or too early on exit.

It puzzled me for a while. When I bought a race-bike from a novice racer. It had a notebook with it and listed sprocket ratios for the different tracks. I found that they were too short after a while. Then it came to me that I was carrying more speed out of the turns and thus more onto the straights. That lead to being passed on the straight by others that were geared slightly taller. It's like that racing in a stock class. You spend some time buying other people their trophies before they buy yours...

I spent almost twenty years running QC programs in laboratories. To accurately measure anything, you need a standard to go by. Riding is way too stochastic for that, but the track gives you a little data to work with.

There are some apps that I'm looking at as a way to measure things. Coaches Eye is a video comparison app that should be useful when coaching. There's no app that measures smoothness available yet. I have friend developing one.

Ride on,

J~

[Misti]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I got a question for everyone here...

What are some of the signs you look for that lets you know you have improved as a rider?

I already know the big ones everyone is looking for;

No chicken strips
Knee down
Faster lap times
Lifted the rear on the brakes
Won the race!!!

What other evidence brings a smile to your face in the paddock after a session?

A good one for me is visual clues on the track. If I can come in with more reference points or having seen something farther down the track then I had been looking before then I feel like I've made improvements.

If I'm less tired overall then I feel like I'm in better shape and riding more effectively.

Photos are a good indication as well. Take a look at your pictures and you can see what you are doing right or what you have to work on.

Last Sunday I was racing a Kayo 125 Mini GP bike in the mini races outside of Vancouver Canada. It was my first time on the bike all season, my first race since last year and I was absolutely flying. I was going two seconds a lap faster then I ever had before (I got up to 3 seconds faster), my visual skills were flowing effortlessly. I was dicing with people I hadn't been able to ride with before and I felt smooth and confident.

The biggest indication for me that I was going fast is that it didn't FEEL fast. It felt controlled and calm and calculated. I was seeing all my reference points and having fun.

BUT, then I crashed I don't tend to crash very often and it was a very violent high side (that I almost saved, but couldn't) So I've been analyzing what was different and why I might have crashed.

Sometimes I tell my students that while they are riding well, they have upped their pace TOO FAST TOO QUICKLY. and when I look back to Sunday, I think that this is what happened to me. Instead of being thrilled that I was going 3 seconds faster I should have mentally noted that that is a LOT of time and backed it off a little bit (it was only qualifying when I crashed) and worked up a little slower.....

Here is a wicked shot from the qualifying session where I finished second place after my 13 year old student. It was the first time we got to race/ride together and it was a whole lot of fun!!

[sharky nrk]

^^^ not to hijack but care to start a thread about that Kayo? I had seen a little on those guys on the WERA mini forum but seems as you have some direct experience.

[sharky nrk]

Awesome pic btw

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by alex.s

crash less

This ^

in addition to carrying more corner speed while hitting apexes more and more consistently. Dragging knee and chicken strips aren't important though lap times do make a difference in terms of measurement.

[Hero Danny]

I actually am glad I have chicken strips. For the track, you're right that's bad. But for the streets if you have no chicken strips then that means it's only a matter of time before something happens... I see horrid road conditions all the time right in the middle of a corner. Stinks cause I love to lean and have fun on twisty roads, but I see oil drips, gravel, sand, potholes... down right horrid.

[Geezer-60]

I'd be really happy if I could ride all day without confusing the turn signal and the horn.

[alex.s]

i donno... when i was progressing, i started with chickenstrips... then they went away.... but then when i started to get better they started to come back again. i still suck though so maybe once i get good they'll go away again

[MrAtom]

I got Miss Mildred back together and I rode out to the twisties and had a great time. I usually don't like crazy fast twisty roads but this time I worried less about lean angle and chicken strips and all that jazz and just worried about having a good time and not crashing. It was much easier to implement all these techniques I'd heard about, I was able to go faster through turns and I had a blast. I even got comfortable with my foot scraping on some turns. I think I've improved.

[JohnnyBravo]

Butter .


I think you say something about water... It's similar

[adouglas]

Going a whole week without leaving the $%#*(@)@ turn signal on.

[accumack]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Going a whole week without leaving the $%#*(@)@ turn signal on.

Isn't that the truth! Getting older with CRS(Can't Remember Sh*t). LOL

[cadd]

^ +1

[liberpolly]

Went through my morning route without my mind wandering even once.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/47.7...m3!1i0!2i3!3i5

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Misti

......
BUT, then I crashed I don't tend to crash very often and it was a very violent high side (that I almost saved, but couldn't) So I've been analyzing what was different and why I might have crashed.

Sometimes I tell my students that while they are riding well, they have upped their pace TOO FAST TOO QUICKLY. and when I look back to Sunday, I think that this is what happened to me. Instead of being thrilled that I was going 3 seconds faster I should have mentally noted that that is a LOT of time and backed it off a little bit (it was only qualifying when I crashed) and worked up a little slower.....

As I see it, over-confidence may have been the psychological source of that high side.
In the Physics world, we always lose something to gain something else.
Yes, perfectly executed riding techniques put us ahead of the game, but the closer we come to the edge or limit of the capabilities of the machine, the margin for error tends to zero.
While riding on that sharp edge, any minor disturbance, like a slight road ripple for example, can trigger a catastrophe.

In my street riding experience, I have concluded that over-confidence and its cousin assumptions are the biggest obstacles to overcome towards an accident-free long-lasting experience.
Both have been the two common factors in all the street accidents that I have witnessed or learned of and in all my close calls.

I understand that I am riding within street traffic at top performance when I am able to be in full automatic control of the bike (just like when you are typing without paying attention to how the muscles and bones of your fingers work) and to keep my mind empty but fully sensitive and alert, following a defensive-proactive street survival strategy.

During any single ride, I degrade and improve at times.
When I catch myself speeding, assuming that the left turner has seen me, worried or tense of distracted from the task at hand, I immediately know that my risk level has grown exponentially.
After that, improving by reducing over-confidence and assumptions, is the only and urgent target of my mind.

[Misti]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

^^^ not to hijack but care to start a thread about that Kayo? I had seen a little on those guys on the WERA mini forum but seems as you have some direct experience.

Yes I will for sure...give me a few days as I'm just heading out of town. I've got lots of info

[Urban Ninja]

Muscle memory - I noticed that as I progress as a rider, my body naturally does things I used to have to think about. Like when preparing to take a corner, I no longer have to think about looking through the turn or taking my weight off the bike for example....it just naturally happens!

[csmith12]

How about this...

I am down to using the lap timer or gps to break down sections of track. Many times, I can't tell if I am getting better or not. Why? Because there isn't much difference in the feeling of 1 second around the track or 1 mph around a particular corner. So I have to revert to telemetry.

However I realize I have limits to detect things... sometimes I let the bike tell me. Like my example in an above post where I hit redline in unexpected places. So if you're like me and sometimes can't tell if you're improving, what can the bike tell you?

[snapshot]

I remember hearing a veteran of the track I was riding say - "If the tires aren't skipping as you go through turn four, you aren't going fast enough." That helped me remember to read the bike and shave some time.

A video camera pointed peripherally at the speedometer will tell you what your speeds are at any given point on the track. It helped me (after some review) to find faster lines.

J~

[CC Cowboy]

I found that when I could close my eyes and do a lap of a track mentally, remembering every mark, bump, drip, and divot I had become comfortable enough to go faster.

[Sirref]

Turns 2, 5, 7, 8 and 9 at NCCAR last weekend learning the track

I noticed my shift point at T8 creeping back across the day, first it was midway between 8 and 9 then it got a little closer, then a little closer, then it was at the apex, then it was before the apex, then it was midway between T7 and T8 then it was just after the exit of 7. Massive change in speed at T8 across the day as a result of that.

Turn 9 I noticed my braking points pushing farther back despite the increase in speed until I realized I didn't have to brake until T10 and didn't have to brake hard until T11

Turn 2 I noticed I kept getting closer and closer to the meatball until I eventually took it out with my knee, and with it gone I found myself going through the corner faster and staying on line without it as if it was holding me back at that point.

Turn 5 I noticed that I was able to hold a smooth arc through the massively long bowl staying on the inside and rolling on much slower than normal but still rolling on

[Misti]

Originally Posted by Motofool

As I see it, over-confidence may have been the psychological source of that high side.
In the Physics world, we always lose something to gain something else.
Yes, perfectly executed riding techniques put us ahead of the game, but the closer we come to the edge or limit of the capabilities of the machine, the margin for error tends to zero.
While riding on that sharp edge, any minor disturbance, like a slight road ripple for example, can trigger a catastrophe.

In my street riding experience, I have concluded that over-confidence and its cousin assumptions are the biggest obstacles to overcome towards an accident-free long-lasting experience.
Both have been the two common factors in all the street accidents that I have witnessed or learned of and in all my close calls.

I understand that I am riding within street traffic at top performance when I am able to be in full automatic control of the bike (just like when you are typing without paying attention to how the muscles and bones of your fingers work) and to keep my mind empty but fully sensitive and alert, following a defensive-proactive street survival strategy.

During any single ride, I degrade and improve at times.
When I catch myself speeding, assuming that the left turner has seen me, worried or tense of distracted from the task at hand, I immediately know that my risk level has grown exponentially.
After that, improving by reducing over-confidence and assumptions, is the only and urgent target of my mind.

Originally Posted by Motofool

As I see it, over-confidence may have been the psychological source of that high side.
In the Physics world, we always lose something to gain something else.
Yes, perfectly executed riding techniques put us ahead of the game, but the closer we come to the edge or limit of the capabilities of the machine, the margin for error tends to zero.
While riding on that sharp edge, any minor disturbance, like a slight road ripple for example, can trigger a catastrophe.

In my street riding experience, I have concluded that over-confidence and its cousin assumptions are the biggest obstacles to overcome towards an accident-free long-lasting experience.
Both have been the two common factors in all the street accidents that I have witnessed or learned of and in all my close calls.

I understand that I am riding within street traffic at top performance when I am able to be in full automatic control of the bike (just like when you are typing without paying attention to how the muscles and bones of your fingers work) and to keep my mind empty but fully sensitive and alert, following a defensive-proactive street survival strategy.

During any single ride, I degrade and improve at times.
When I catch myself speeding, assuming that the left turner has seen me, worried or tense of distracted from the task at hand, I immediately know that my risk level has grown exponentially.
After that, improving by reducing over-confidence and assumptions, is the only and urgent target of my mind.

Probably right. The thing that is hard for me is that I didn't FEEL like I was riding that fast and I didn't FEEL like I was being overly aggressive or fast or confident. It's interesting to me because I'm trained to see this in other people. As soon as I see a student of mine riding ahead of their abilities or making a tremendous jump in speed, I pull them over to warn them that they are nearing the edge and that they might want to bring it down a notch. It's always saved a crash. When I doubt my decision or decide to wait a few corners to see how they do, inevitably they crash and I feel like crap for not following my instincts to prevent it from happening.

i didn't see this in myself at all.

Lesson learned. I pulled it back a notch this past race weekend and kept it upright. we will see how the next race goes

[csmith12]

I wanted to update this thread with a nugget for those of us who love to help others.

Please don't stop working and assessing yourself! I will be honest here, I have made an error. I have been so caught up in helping others, that I forgot to take stock in myself. After riding a very fast mid-ohio twilight, I didn't realize how much I have progressed. To leisurely pass riders that used to blow by me like I had an anchor attached is telling.

It is yet another way to tell that you have improved. To gage yourself against another who was faster than you at some point. Sort of obvious now... lol It's always the simple things with bikes.

[Sirref]

I did similar last time I was at shenny, my pace there improved so much from the "**** I crashed hard last time I was here and it still kinda hurts" pace to matching pace with advanced group riders (it was a 2 group day I/A and N)

[LNasty]

From a strictly street rider, I would have to go with @cadd on this one. Corner confidence would be number one for me as signs of improvement. Smooth, relaxed corners at higher speeds are changes I have seen. I would also have to add throttle control and just take off's from a dead stop in general.

[Misti]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I wanted to update this thread with a nugget for those of us who love to help others.

Please don't stop working and assessing yourself! I will be honest here, I have made an error. I have been so caught up in helping others, that I forgot to take stock in myself. After riding a very fast mid-ohio twilight, I didn't realize how much I have progressed. To leisurely pass riders that used to blow by me like I had an anchor attached is telling.

It is yet another way to tell that you have improved. To gage yourself against another who was faster than you at some point. Sort of obvious now... lol It's always the simple things with bikes.

It's hard to assess yourself as a rider when you are constantly working with others. I recently went to Laguna Seca to coach with CSS after a full year off of riding. I'd raced a mini bike a few times this year but hadn't ridden a big bike for a full year and was really frustrated with myself as I felt super slow and scared. I put all my time into working with my students though and didn't have much time to work on my own riding. It wasn't until I had my former teammate and fellow coach Josh Galster do a few hot laps with me that I took some time to work on my own riding. He gave me a few pointers and I "dropped my purse and got on the gas" It took just a few laps of working with him and spending just a bit of time on my own riding so that I felt like I got up to speed and back to "close" to my regular pace.

So yes, don't stop working and assessing yourself! :dance cool:

We can always improve if we take the time to focus and work on what needs improving.

M