Need Help Convincing a Friend to Start Smaller

[nickjpass]

He suddenly wants to get a bike. He said he has 10Gs. He wants to get an R6. I'm tired of dumb crap in my life going on, and don't want to lose another friend. I need good points for him to start smaller, and wear at least MTGATT.

[choneofakind]

That's up to him. Tell him to actually ride a motorcycle before he decides he wants a larger bike. No amount of convincing is going to get him to get a different bike than he wants. The decision has to be made by him.

Sure, information is good. The MSF course is great! So is gear and talking with older riders, but like I said, in the end, it's up to him.

[ForceofWill]

Have him read the new riders forum at sportbikes.net. Plenty of good info there.

[nickjpass]

I hope he doesn't die

[choneofakind]

Just because someone starts on a 600 doesn't mean they're automatically going to die. That's just like non-riders insisting how scary riding is because of how dangerous it is.

Good grief. If they start on a 600, it just means they're either going to pussyfoot around turns for a while, and/or they're likely going to have a few brown pairs of underwear. Most likely they won't die. There are loads of people who start on larger bikes and are just fine.

That being said, if you can convince him, even just on money savings, to get a 250 and run a couple track days with that left-over from the 10,000 (yeah. ok. I'll believe it when I see a cashiers check from that account for 10k), then do it. This bike wouldn't be Kawi's number 1 selling bike for so long if it wasn't so good.

[Gorilla25]

show him the article i posted yesterday...its somewhere on this front page

[nickjpass]

You won't be a good rider as you could be though. If you start on a 600, the small margin for error will be reached often, since you spend most of your time thinking about survival. At least that's what this taught me.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=97437

[ForceofWill]

Has he even looked at insurance for a 600SS? How old is he? If he's your age, that ****'s gonna be killer.

[nickjpass]

I don't think he has. If he knew what he was really doing, I think he would realize how much more dangerous it is to start on a super sport than a sport bike.

[nickjpass]

So what should I tell him exactly?

[nickjpass]

Thank you for the tips

[Enfemus]

You can have a heart to heart with him telling him your concerns and your experiences with riding etc. If he is a good friend at all he'll take your advice under consideration otherwise all you can do is advise them and hope it sinks in. Getting a 600 for your first bike isn't the end of the world, getting a SS is.

If that doesn't work hit him in the balls hard and tell him thats what it feels like without gear only 100x worse.

[Toly]

OP, It looks like your intentions are totally opposite to what your signature says So, which one is it?

[kamikaze]

i've gotten in to this argument with people so many times it's beginning to sound like a broken record. now when someone tells me they want to start on a SS bike i just tell them good luck, and never invite them to ride with me until they get some experience so I don't have to be there if they wad it up.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by Enfemus

You can have a heart to heart with him telling him your concerns and your experiences with riding etc. If he is a good friend at all he'll take your advice under consideration otherwise all you can do is advise them and hope it sinks in. Getting a 600 for your first bike isn't the end of the world, getting a SS is.

If that doesn't work hit him in the balls hard and tell him thats what it feels like without gear only 100x worse.

Awesome. Genius.

Originally Posted by Toly

OP, It looks like your intentions are totally opposite to what your signature says So, which one is it?

Hey...don't make fun of n4wmd's words...

[DaBlue1]

You can always have him read this as well.
Starting On Small Bikes is Not So Bad.....

[rudyr123]

You could always show him this image! Originally posted by Gorilla25.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

So what should I tell him exactly?

Tell him to sign his organ donor card and make sure his family is on board with organ donation. No reason for them to go to waste when there are plenty of folks out there who would take better care of them...

[Zealous]

Get him to do the MSF course he has to experience a motorbike first before he will listen to anything else.

My friend tried to talk me into a 600 because I would get bored with the 250, but I am still learning a lot. If he cares about image, in my opinion the new generation Ninja 250s look just as good as some of the supersports.

Get him to look at insurance and cost prices and it is quick to see why people start out with a Ninja 250 and why they are so popular.

In the end people do what they want... all you can do if give him information to make a decision, he has to make the decision himself.

[cuz]

get him drunk and confess all ur felling 4 him

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by cuz

get him drunk and confess all ur felling 4 him

Nah lol I like a girl. But that isn't going well. She's not who I thought she was... drama queen cough cough.

[cuz]

ohh i thought it was dude anyways GET IT naw but 4 real hope u find a way

[nickjpass]

The person I'm talking about is a guy...but I'm confused about your post.

[greg737]

#3 under the heading of the "It's not just a matter of horsepower and speed" section of Rudy's post is the really big GOTCHA that the noobys don't see coming.

It's absolutely true that the handling characteristics built into SS suspension setup and steering geometry are unforgiving.

There's a major difference between "sport" and "supersport" geometry: one is designed to be leaned into the turn and the other is meant to be thrown into the turn.

Watch a few videos of superbike races on youtube and you'll see how SuperSport bikes were meant to handle: setup with a weight-shift as turn approaches, bike falls into turn (with real balls-deep commitment on the part of the rider), counter-steer like hell through the turn, passing apex remove counter-steer with accompanying weight transfer to stand it back up and get back on the throttle (completely WFO is preferable).

What first-time rider is prepared to properly ride a SS bike? None, that's how many.

Truth is that the percentage of riders out there with real, no-crap SS riding skills is very small. Which means there's a whole lot of SS riders out there hanging on in "survival mode" more often than not. Or they're douching around in "poseur mode" riding their SS bikes like sport bikes or really powerful mopeds.

Pathetic.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by greg737

Pathetic.

Me or them lol?

[greg737]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

Me or them lol?

Relax Nick, I was talking about folks on SS bikes who don't have, never will have, the skills to ride them competently (regardless of whether they crash them or not).

[nickjpass]

Sorry. I've been having a tough time and aren't myself. I can't think straight.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by greg737

It's absolutely true that the handling characteristics built into SS suspension setup and steering geometry are unforgiving.

There's a major difference between "sport" and "supersport" geometry: one is designed to be leaned into the turn and the other is meant to be thrown into the turn.

Watch a few videos of superbike races on youtube and you'll see how SuperSport bikes were meant to handle: setup with a weight-shift as turn approaches, bike falls into turn (with real balls-deep commitment on the part of the rider), counter-steer like hell through the turn, passing apex remove counter-steer with accompanying weight transfer to stand it back up and get back on the throttle (completely WFO is preferable).

This somewhat goes against everything I have learned over the years and what is taught at top schools like CSS and such. I have never seen or heard of any bike where steering into and out of corners based on weight transfers. Just seems odd that CSS riders use BMW S1000RR bikes even for their entry level courses. And I am told your coursework begins with a parking lot session on steering, ensuring you are counter steering and not just throwing weight around.

Can you provide some documentation, links or resources that cover what your referring to? Possibly in another thread or pm. Thanks sir.

Sorry, carry on ladies and gents...

[Toly]

+1. I ride a CBR600 and it's not scary. If anything, it's more stable than Ninja in corners - that 180 tire helps a lot. And you can change line mid-corner easily, but here throttle control is very important - again, to keep that fat 180 tire loaded and happy. It's a docile enough bike when ridden responsibly.

But I totally agree, riding a supersport *well* takes a lot more skill than riding a Ninja well. But that is a different story. Posing around and looking like a fool to experienced motorcyclists - that's personal choice.

[nickjpass]

In the third video, when they started saying what they needed to replace, all I thought was "the whole bike". What a piece of junk.

[Jono]

Just let him start on whatever bike he wants to start on. Obviously he hasn't done any research on picking a first bike. For an average individual it is a very easy to see that you need to start on a smaller bike if you are a new rider. That is if you really want to learn how to ride. I guess if you want to be a tool you can get a super sport to improve your image? Idk. People like your friend should just stay away from motorcycles if they don't have the intellect to see the benefits of starting small. That's how I see it.

[Reswob]

If he's under 25, one call to his insurance agent will have him singing a different tune.

[massacremasses]

ins. was the biggest reason I started smaller...

[jack_bm]

Like others have said get him to see how much the insurance is,

talk to him about why the 250 ninja is so good i love mine just for the fact that if i want to open her up all through the gears i wont end up going an insane and stupid speed but with the ninja i get to go fast but not at a speed i wont have to much trouble controlling her + i wont scare myself on it.

[Jono]

His friend has 10Gs yo! That's plenty for a used r6 and insurance for a couple years. I don't think insurance prices will change this kids mind.

If I had 10Gs I would buy a used 600.

[FrugalNinja250]

At some point, when someone is insisting on being stupid with the ferocity that only stupidity can breed, I think it's best to just walk away because it is, fundamentally, a complete waste of time to attempt to fight ingrained idiocy. Honestly, I've got better things to do with my time. It's easy to offer someone quality information, but it's impossible to understand it for them.

[leed]

I would tell him to get his license first, at the very least... And I will be honest, I know a huge number of people who started on 600 I4's, and they're still alive today. Some of them lack common sense (no gear), and some of them don't. But I will tell you one thing, it's very hard to convince someone to start small, to take the MSF, or wear proper gear. It's just not worth it to some people.

For me, I honestly think it may pass over (his phase). He may buy an R6, he'll probably drop it at 15 miles an hour, then he won't ride ever again. It's a completely different thing to jump head first into such a dangerous hobby than it is to do legitimate research and justify everything you do towards it, your loyalty and compassion just doesn't exist.

[Xoulrath]

Frugal, I agree with your previous post. However, I think it is still in Nick's best interest to try to educate his friend first. There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. If his friend, after seeing videos like the ones posted here (and all over the place on YouTube) don't convince him, if after listeneing to the advice given here doens't convince him, then he qualifies as stupid, and it would indeed be time to just walk away.

[alex.s]

let him buy the r6. more used salvage parts on the market is good for me.

[Trailerboy531]

Or let him buy the r6 and scare the hell out of himself and then you'll get a sweet new and cheap super sport down the line Nick. Come on, you've got to think proactively here.