Oh what a difference a tire makes

[phorensic]

I bought a 2011 Ninjette as my first street bike with only ~3,000 miles on it. After 6,000 miles my stock IRC rear was toast. I do a lot of commuting on freeways, so it was squared out really bad. If I so much as breathed on the rear brake too hard it would lock up and the bike was really unstable going straight. It would follow every groove in the road and headshake really bad, especially on the grooved concrete sections of our freeways. It made me lose all confidence in the bike and was downright dangerous whenever I accidentally locked the rear in traffic.

I would have put a new rear tire on sooner, but I've been out of work for 7 months looking for another job. It was my birthday a week ago and I got a gift card that helped get me a new rear tire. Months of research and I narrowed down my final choice to the Bridgestone Battlax BT-45. I would have purchased it in the stock size, but they didn't have it, so I went for the classic +1 size - 140/70-17.

Let me just say right now. Don't try to change a street bike tire yourself if you haven't before and don't know what you are doing. It is damn near impossible, such a pain in the ass. I've done all the work on every vehicle I have owned, including swapping an engine in my MR2 Spyder. This is one job I had to finally give up on and took it to a shop to do the final mount and balance.

Just getting the rear axle off was a PITA. The monkeys at the factory must have set the impact wrench to 150+psi because the washer behind the nut was completely crushed and dished. I took a photo after hours of cussing and wrenching as sort of a victory shot, lol:


Protip for frugal/broke people. I used two 10x1.25x55mm grade 12.9 allen bolts in the rear stand brackets and two regular jack stands instead of wasting $80-150 on a fancy smanshy rear wheel stand.

I made my own version of one of these ghetto setups to break the bead on the old tire. Note: this isn't my photo below:


I will never try to break the bead like that again. What a joke. I had 8 feet of leverage and a waverunner trailer to pry against. Took me an hour and just barely got it broken. I'm just taking it to a shop next time.

So after scratching the HELL out of my stock painted wheel getting the old tire off, this is as far as I got the new tire on before giving up:


What you can't see is the 20-30 gouges the steel tire irons made all over the wheel. Oh man that felt great ruining a $480 (MSRP) painted wheel.... Never again.

I made sure the shop double checked the tire for leaks, as the wheel was pretty chewed up right where the bead seats. They said they dunked the whole thing and no leaks, woohoo! Here it is all mounted up.


So after 6.5 hours of wrenching just to put a damn rear tire on, what do I think? Absolutely frickin' fantastic results man! I've seen people say this before, but it is a whole new damn bike. It tracks straight as an arrow now that I have a real tire that is actually round, no matter what the surface I'm riding on is like. Grooved concrete freeways don't even phase it. Absolutely no headshake. It tips over into long sweepers perfectly and it's just like butter in all situations. I'm definitely no racer, I don't ride fast at all. I've had my fast days on 4 wheels on the street and on the track, and after seeing two of my friends crash on two wheels HARD and break bones, I take it super easy on the street. I never ride more than like 4/10ths, but even then this rear tire is like...the bee's knees lol. I'll probably do the front tire after I start my new job, but the damn thing looks brand new still.

Edit: forgot to add: Because the tire is new (not square) and taller overall than the stock IRC it dropped my freeway cruising RPM ~1,000RPM which is super cool. I wanted a taller front sprocket because I was just *screaming* all day on the freeways with a worn out rear, but I don't think I want to now. I'm only at like 10,000RPM cruising when there is no traffic, feels way better than before.

Anyway, sorry for the super long story about just a freakin' tire, but I had to share

[DennyV]

dang... i was hoping to use my shop's hunter car tire machine to do my bike tires this winter...

[Jiggles]

Pro tip, stop using your rear brake

[thurt88]

Bigger pro-tip: ride bike to dealer and let them put it on for 70 bucks.

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by thurt88

Bigger pro-tip: ride bike to dealer and let them put it on for 70 bucks.

I was going to suggest this. I've done all the maintenance to my bike for the exception of mounting/balancing tires. Found a local shop that does it for $20/wheel off the bike.

I thought about buying tire irons and learning to do it myself but it wouldn't be worth the hassle IMO.

[csmith12]

Welcome!

Nice work yo and the effort pays off. I refuse to do tires myself so I feel your pain, been there. Nothing like new rubber.
@Jiggles $70 omfg... Is there nothing cheaper? I pay $15 a wheel.

[areifel]

Forum tip: Never take anything Jiggles says seriously.

[Boom King]

Nice first post Matt and welcome to the forums. I'm currently still riding the stock IRC's but plan to switch them out for the Bridgestones. Debating whether I should keep the IRC on the front just like you did as it still looks plenty good.

[phorensic]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Pro tip, stop using your rear brake

I have been more and more. On my dirt bikes I have used a lot of rear brake, and it helps in a lot of situations, like getting the rear to turn around a switchback. However, on the street, while hard on the front brake and aggressively "blip" downshifting I find the rear brake pretty much useless. There just isn't enough weight to have much effective braking traction. I've had to mentally tell myself over and over to experiment with not using the rear brake and it's starting to work I think. It's somewhat difficult for me to switch riding styles from dirt to street. Even riding my plated XR650R on the street takes a whole mental reset to get things right.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Welcome!

Nice work yo and the effort pays off. I refuse to do tires myself so I feel your pain, been there. Nothing like new rubber.
@Jiggles $70 omfg... Is there nothing cheaper? I pay $15 a wheel.

What??? I didn't say that homie. Even worse, I got mine changed for $45 each!

Originally Posted by areifel

Forum tip: Never take anything Jiggles says seriously.

If you can't use your rear brake without locking it up then you should probably stop using it (not like you need it anyway for normal or emergency braking)

[phorensic]

Originally Posted by thurt88

Bigger pro-tip: ride bike to dealer and let them put it on for 70 bucks.

It was only $26 at Corona Motorsports, would've have only been $15 if I had it done at Chaparral where I bought the tire.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by phorensic

I have been more and more. On my dirt bikes I have used a lot of rear brake, and it helps in a lot of situations, like getting the rear to turn around a switchback. However, on the street, while hard on the front brake and aggressively "blip" downshifting I find the rear brake pretty much useless. There just isn't enough weight to have much effective braking traction. I've had to mentally tell myself over and over to experiment with not using the rear brake and it's starting to work I think. It's somewhat difficult for me to switch riding styles from dirt to street. Even riding my plated XR650R on the street takes a whole mental reset to get things right.

Well good, at least you are getting there. On a sportbike the rear brake is really only useful on less than ideal traction surfaces and for slow maneuvers. you'd want to use the rear over gravel, dirt, etc. (lightly) because its better to lock the rear than to lock the front. You lock the front on a surface liek that and you're going down

[phorensic]

I had enough fun learning what it feels like to lock the front on my first dirt bike years ago. I try not to make that mistake on my street bike lol.

[Asspire]

next time you do tires, by a jug of tropicana orange juice, drink it, then cut out the side of the bottle and use as rim protectors/wedges. Makes a huge difference for taking off the tire and you won't scratch the rim. As for putting on, I lubed up my Pirelli DR2's with soapy water and muscled them on, only using the tire iron for the last half of the bead to go in.

just remember to let the tool do the work for you, don't fight it. it's not that hard, just gotta take your time.


also, your chicken strips are HUGE!!!1!!

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

What??? I didn't say that homie. Even worse, I got mine changed for $45 each!

My bad yo, it's the liquor. Please disregard anything that I post tonight. hahahaha

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by csmith12

My bad yo, it's the liquor. Please disregard anything that I post tonight. hahahaha

@csmith12 = TOO LOCO.

[csmith12]

hahahaha, I gotz me some tall long islands tonight, please disregard and return to your regularly scheduled programming of tire changes by hand and a Matt's intro thread.

[02337]

I personally did this as well, I actually went down to advance bought a gallon of tire lube(similar to astroglide....). I use a piece of milk jug folded twice and stuck the tire iron in and pulled the top lip over. Sprayed the lube around the edges really well literally grabbed my tire underneath and pulled it off the rim no crazy hulk pulling so that the rim wouldn't bend but it just slides off... Crazy what some line can do to a dry fit.

Upon reinstalling I wipe the rim down and used less lube and walked the tire with my knees and used the iron to pull the last bit over.

After struggling an scratching the front up I jut decided to man up and do it this way and only needed the tire iron one time to remove and twice to put it on.

I spent 7 dollars for the lube and 4 dollars for harbor freight tire iron(which I advice against as I had to grind down the raised edges to not eat into the rim.
I also used a 5 inch c clamp to beak the bead.

I did however place an order for the motion pro set as for future use the harbor freight ones were quite large.

I also recommend using the lube as oppose I dish soap as I've heard horror stories of Rims coming unbeaded cause the dish soap eats away at petroleum products. Many have used dish soap with no problem though so choice is yours.

My $.02

[thomason2wheels]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Welcome!

Nice work yo and the effort pays off. I refuse to do tires myself so I feel your pain, been there. Nothing like new rubber.
@Jiggles $70 omfg... Is there nothing cheaper? I pay $15 a wheel.

If i ever find myself fortunate enough to be employed again, i do want to go to the track....for real. I am sure that it helped your riding and i know it would help mine.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Well good, at least you are getting there. On a sportbike the rear brake is really only useful on less than ideal traction surfaces and for slow maneuvers. you'd want to use the rear over gravel, dirt, etc. (lightly) because its better to lock the rear than to lock the front. You lock the front on a surface liek that and you're going down

nick ienatsch disagrees, so does Honda.

[Jiggles]

They can be wrong if they want, idc

[Alex]

Put two new tires on the big ninja this afternoon. I've never had the urge to actually mount/balance them at home, when I can take 'em to a nearby shop who will do both immediately for $20/wheel. Then the only trick is getting them back on the bike with all of the spacers in correctly (harder than it sounds, but I've got the hang of it at this point). I haven't been putting many miles on the 10R recently, so it has taken awhile to get to the newest set of tires in the garage, but those are now the 003RS's. Looking forward to trying them out next weekend!

[phorensic]

Originally Posted by rPanda

nick ienatsch disagrees, so does Honda.

I took the MSF at a Honda rider education center and they drilled into our brains to always use the rear brake and in some ridiculously high percentage or whatever. Is that what you are talking about when you say "Honda" disagrees? Honestly, I've locked the rear more times than I care to admit, barely applying pressure, and now I'm experimenting not using it. There were some other questionable things they taught that just don't work practically that I've had to forget. The best thing they taught me is how to look where you want to go. So many videos on youtube of riders crashing because of target fixation. Can't stare at the ground 5 feet away, gotta look way up and through where you want to go!

[Jiggles]

The MSF states 70% front and 30% rear. This works for cruisers and sport tourers but not sportbikes that are capable of stoppies. Your maximum braking would be at 100% front tire and with the rear still on the ground. Now that can be difficult to attain and stay constant on so really you're going to shoot for 90-95% braking power on the front. This leaves a very small amount of weight on the rear tire which makes it extremely easy to lock up, particularly in a panic situation. There have been tests and studies with people braking with just the front and with both brakes. Using both brakes they were able to stop IIRC 4% faster than using just the front. That's without locking up the rear.

It's simply not worth using the rear brake when it can easily lock up causing you to lose all the braking ability it possess as well as stability.

There is a nice discussion thread on this topic somewhere

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by 02337

I also used a 5 inch c clamp to beak the bead.

Do you hook one side of the c-clamp to the rim? Or ??

[Panda]

Originally Posted by phorensic

I took the MSF at a Honda rider education center and they drilled into our brains to always use the rear brake and in some ridiculously high percentage or whatever. Is that what you are talking about when you say "Honda" disagrees?

- "Honda disagrees" was slightly tongue in cheek because Honda's C-ABS combines both front and back brakes for maximum stopping power.

- You will stop faster using both the front and rear brake as long as the rear wheel is still on the ground. 100% of the braking comes from the front when the rear is no longer in contact with the ground.

- In emergency situations some suggest not touching the rear brake at all because it's difficult (if not impossible) to modulate the front and rear brake at the same time at the limits of adhesion without locking up one or both brakes.

- Rear brake use prior to a turn can help keep the suspension settled

- Judicious use of the rear brake mid-turn can help scrub speed, keep the suspension settled and prevent the front fork from diving

The assertion I disagreed with is

Originally Posted by jiggles

"On a sportbike the rear brake is really only useful on less than ideal traction surfaces and for slow maneuvers. you'd want to use the rear over gravel, dirt, etc. (lightly) because its better to lock the rear than to lock the front. You lock the front on a surface liek (sic) that and you're going down"

There are more occasions to use the rear brake than this post suggested. I don't disagree that these are good uses of the rear brake and don't disagree that in a panic situation that using just the front brake is prudent.

[reaperw]

as long as your happy were all happy,i think this is the only way you r going to learn.I just replace my tires as well this year.Did you only do the rear if so holly shiiit that was a long 6.5 h lol





should always replace in sets not just rear or just front

[cuong-nutz]

I've replaced my tires at home with no problems. The actual method you pictured to break the beads is how I do it too. As for removing the tires, I use 3 tire irons and plastic bottles cut up to avoid marring the wheel. What you do is use some soapy solution around the wheel lip and tire slip the plastic inbetween wheel and tire, shove tire iron, and rotate.

2 2x4s wrapped in carpet keeps the brake rotor and wheel off the ground.

[02337]

Originally Posted by HKr1

Do you hook one side of the c-clamp to the rim? Or ??

I have a special 2x4 that I put some foam wrapping on to help protect it. I put that 2x4 on one side of the TIRE so it's not touching the rim, towards the top and then put he c clamp around the 2x4 and around the tire position it and start turning. Once you get the bead broken in spot it pretty much can be pushed along by hand.

[phorensic]

Originally Posted by reaperw

as long as your happy were all happy,i think this is the only way you r going to learn.I just replace my tires as well this year.Did you only do the rear if so holly shiiit that was a long 6.5 h lol

should always replace in sets not just rear or just front

Yeah, I did just the rear. The rear axle nut was impacted on with a million foot pounds of torque..that was the first obstacle. Then the bead breaking process with my ghetto wood lever took forever. Then I fumbled and fought with tire irons for hours getting the old tire off and the new tire halfway on. In the end...way too much time to save $15-26. After swapping a motor in a car by myself and doing all my other maintenance for the past 10 years, this tire change has not only defeated me, but made me look like a total newb, lol! I don't even want to attempt my dirt bike tires anymore.

And yes I know you should replace both. The front still looks brand new (but probably hard as a rock from age and heat cycles) and I don't push the bike hard enough to find the limits of cornering traction on either end. So, while I end my 7 months of unemployment and begin my new job tomorrow I will start saving for a front tire!

[koenigcitizen]

RE: shop pricing

Actually thats how much my local dealer charges to replace tires. $70 a tire if you bring the bike.

$40 if you bring just the wheel...

$140 in labor to change tires for me, since I don't have a way/knowledge to get the wheels off the bike

[streetsquid]

25.00 a wheel off the bike at my local shop.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by 02337

I have a special 2x4 that I put some foam wrapping on to help protect it. I put that 2x4 on one side of the TIRE so it's not touching the rim, towards the top and then put he c clamp around the 2x4 and around the tire position it and start turning. Once you get the bead broken in spot it pretty much can be pushed along by hand.

That might work for one side/bead, but how do your break the opposite side?
I tried c-clamp before, just couldnt get it to work. Seemed like a board on the rim would work....... just didnt want to chance it.

[02337]

I just flip the board to the opposite side of the rim, I did this on stock tires from a 03 ninja that had been sitting for 5 years so the tires were anything but normal and were a bit of a pain but my local cycle gears machine was down ($35 per tire) inspired me to make this work.