New owner with some issues

[SVT6357]

So as some of you know, I recently picked up a 2011 Kawasaki Ninja 250r that needs some repairs.

1. Bike cranks but does not start.

2. Will only crank with kickstand up and clutch in.

3. Will crank with kickstand up and clutch out (scared me when I tried that the first time lol)

4. Will not crank with kickstand down and with clutch in or out.

5. No neutral light/hard to find neutral.


What could be my possible options as to why it won't start. I pulled and cleaned the carbs and found the jets were pretty gummed up. It feels like it wants to start, but when it gets to that point, it backfires a little sometimes. Any help would be appreciated. This will be my main mode of transportation til my car is finished.

Thank you!
Chris

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by SVT6357

2. Will only crank with kickstand up and clutch in.

3. Will crank with kickstand up and clutch out (scared me when I tried that the first time lol)

You realize these two contradict one another, right?

It sounds like you have, at minimum, two separate issues.

The first is an issue with one or more of the safety switches.

Go here: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Underst...afety_switches

You've got a clutch safety switch, a gear safety switch, and a side stand safety switch.

Correct behavior is as follows:

A bike can be started:
in neutral with the side stand down and the clutch out
in neutral, with the side stand up and the clutch out
in gear, with the side stand down and the clutch in
in gear, with the side stand up and the clutch in

Inspect all the switches and if you don't see anything amiss, get out your multimeter and see what's engaging when.

Re failure to get the bike running, that can be any one of many things from old fuel to fouled plugs to clogged jets (due to old fuel) to you name it, even user error. There's no indication of your experience level, so it's remotely possible that you're unaware of correct choke operation.

You're on the right track with what you've already done... maybe you didn't get all the gunk out of the carbs.

Keep going over all the basics. Fuel, spark, air. Make sure the fuel is fresh, and if you don't know then drain the system including the carbs. Pull the plugs and inspect for fouling and proper gap. See if they fire when you ground them. Pull out the filter and clean it. You get the idea.

[jkv45]

^ Do all of the above.

As noted, I think you may still need carb work, and if you haven't completely drained the fuel out and refilled with fresh it's not going to want to start.

Can you confirm that it's going into neutral? It sounds like it may not be.

[taz]

[CaliGrrl]

Welcome! I hope you find your problem so you can get out and ride!

[SVT6357]

Well I got the neutral thing figured out. When the guy dropped the bike off, it was in fifth gear... And now it will crank with the stand down. Simple enough...right... Well...went over a few other things and it all checked out. I tried starting again with fresh gas since the old was a pee water color (darker yellowish) and it got a little closer. My buddy asked me how the oil was and I said when I checked the other day it was fine. So I look anyway and I found in the window that it was no longer a nice golden brown...but more a caramel color. Checked the coolant and the level is good and still green. I drained the oil and filter and it had a slight fuel smell to it, not a coolant smell. Although visually it looks like a head gasket, I'm hoping its not. I did an oil change and let it drain for well over about 2 hours to get as much of what was in there out, checked the plugs and nothing out of the ordinary, changed the air filter. Still nothing. I'm hoping I don't have to pull the engine for a head gasket.....


Old oil


Old gas


Oil window after trying to start a few times...

[SVT6357]

I know it sat, but I don't remember how long he said...

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by SVT6357

Oil window after trying to start a few times...

Bummer. Not good.

That looks like coolant in the oil. Gas will thin the oil, but not make it milky.

[SVT6357]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Bummer. Not good.

That looks like coolant in the oil. Gas will thin the oil, but not make it milky.

Its wasnt like this the first day I tried starting it. Also, what is the likelihood that a head gasket could be bad after 1992 miles... I could see 19000 miles..

[Z1R rider]

I'm wondering if the oil has water in it from condensation, especially if it sat out where the temperature had wide swings. If it were mine I'd change the oil and the filter and have another go at it. Be sure to keep an eye on the oil and coolant until you know all is well.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by SVT6357

Its wasnt like this the first day I tried starting it. Also, what is the likelihood that a head gasket could be bad after 1992 miles... I could see 19000 miles..

It would be odd. But if the engine hasn't actually started - and you changed the oil recently - I wouldn't expect to see that. It looks like it has a green tint to it like antifreeze.

Seeing as how you let the oil drain quite a while when you changed it, I wouldn't expect any amount of contaminants to remain in the crankcase.

I've just never seen fresh oil change to that color from just cranking an engine over.

[taz]

Originally Posted by jkv45

it would be odd. But if the engine hasn't actually started - and you changed the oil recently - i wouldn't expect to see that. It looks like it has a green tint to it like antifreeze.

Seeing as how you let the oil drain quite a while when you changed it, i wouldn't expect any amount of contaminants to remain in the crankcase.

I've just never seen fresh oil change to that color from just cranking an engine over.

i have but it was on bikes that were wrecked and the cases on the engine were broken and they sat out in the rain. It took around 5 or more oil changes to get it to start being better, each time of the oil change running the engine longer to get more out. It was a PITA. To help out on the cost we went and bought the cheapest oil we could find knowing it was just going to be dropped and wasted right away. THE PIC HE HAS OF THE SCREEN LOOKS JUST LIKE WHAT WE HAD.

[adouglas]

I wonder how it could have gotten that bad on a low-mileage bike. That's a heck of a lot of water to have come only from condensation.

Maybe at some point the previous owner forgot to put the fill plug back in and it got left out in the rain?

Low miles does not guarantee that the engine hasn't been abused. If the previous owner thrashed it, failed to break it in properly or let it overheat, it's entirely possible that damage of some sort occurred. A blown head gasket (or even a warped head) is not out of the question even at low miles.

Stick with the program... keep changing the oil until no further change occurs. You might also run some fuel treatment through it once you get it running (e.g. Seafoam, Techron, etc.) to better clear out the gunk that must be in the carbs.

It's quite clear that water got into places where it should not be. I'd be mildly concerned about corrosion/pitting on the engine internals. While not terminal, that might possibly lead to somewhat shortened engine life.

[ducatiman]

Very likely this same condensation or water intrusion has created corrosion within the carbs...evidenced by the white powdery crap we've all seen. The modern ethanol fuels even accelerate the corrosive process!

More extensive, deeper carb cleaning may be required to enable startup ... and startup is critical to enable further diagnosis as to the integrity of the cooling system/head gasket. Both oil level and quality need to be monitored, putting some miles on to fully determine. This may be a poor storage issue (water contamination) ..or indeed a head gasket.

[ducatiman]

if I may add to the above....unprotected outdoor storage with unstabilized fuel (fully exposed to humidity/temp swings) ...is a sure death sentence to fuel tanks, petcocks and carburetors in particular. No secret our modern ethanol fuels are substandard....attracting moisture, meanwhile "dropping out" in periods as little as *weeks*.

I strongly suggest constant use of ethanol treatment/stabilizer for EVERYONE, every tankful...whether in storage or daily use.

[SVT6357]

Well I got some good news today! Pulled the plugs, cranked it to clear it out, drained the carbs, put it back together and it started up. Still some issues tho.
Choke on, it revs to about 8-9K rpm.
Any throttle with choke off and it wants to shut off. Gets a little better the more it runs.
Seems like the throttle hangs a little bit when I let off.
Coolant tank bubbles when I shut it off.

And there is a hose that comes off the carb assembly in the middle of the two. Is that supposed to be connected to anything? When I plug it with my thumb, the rpms go up. Still a want to shut off every once in a while but not nearly as bad.