August 1st, 2012, 11:06 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Matthew
Location: Kansas city
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ex-250r Posts: 21
|
Turning
After reading many posts and books I am still unclear with counter steering. To turn left you should push the right bar. Are you supposed to push down toward the ground or forward as in the direction you are traveling?
|
|
August 1st, 2012, 11:23 AM | #2 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
pushing down toward the ground does nothing. you are rotating the bars in the opposite direction you want to turn, this pulls the front of the bike the direction you turn the bars (away from the turn) which pushes the top of the bike away from the direction you turn the bars (you turn the bars away from the turn, so the top of the bike 'falls' into the turn) then when the bike is leaned, it follows that path
note though- light smooth pressure is best
__________________________________________________
|
|
August 1st, 2012, 11:23 AM | #3 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
To turn left, push left bar. (yes.... that will turn the wheel to the right, hence the "counter" part of countersteering)
and push forward, not down, not diagonal, simply forward.
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
|
August 1st, 2012, 12:48 PM | #4 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
|
Quote:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100922
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
|
|
August 1st, 2012, 01:01 PM | #5 |
Super Noob
Name: Alex
Location: Mobile, AL
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): '09 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, '84 Honda Spree 50cc Posts: A lot.
|
If you're unclear and perhaps too scared or cautious to try countersteering on the ninjette...take a bicycle for a ride and practice countersteering...same principle. good luck.
__________________________________________________
My Videos |
|
August 1st, 2012, 02:09 PM | #6 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
There is something wrong (mechanically or technique) if you can't do it with one finger. There are times when you may want to two hand it (high speed swerves and such) but for really learning how, stick with one hand. You will thank yourself later.
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
|
August 1st, 2012, 02:14 PM | #7 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
^^ ^ Adding to my above post.
When your riding in the "textbook" body position, head down with arm extended across/resting on the tank, it is much more difficult to use the outside hand to push or pull the bar for accurate steering inputs. You just loose so much leverage.
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
|
August 1st, 2012, 02:18 PM | #8 | |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
|
|
|
August 1st, 2012, 02:44 PM | #9 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
Sure, you can weight pegs and all but didn't want to muddy up the waters any more than needed for the sake of the OP's question.
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
|
August 1st, 2012, 02:45 PM | #10 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
lol alex, maybe you was just joking too, hard to tell.... hahahaha
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
|
August 2nd, 2012, 07:21 AM | #11 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Daniel
Location: Nashville
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R Posts: 25
|
You can't take a corner above around 15mph without counter steering. It's a very subtle thing and your body just naturally does it on a 2-wheeled vehicle. Don't think too much about it.
The only time the theory actually comes in handy is if you have to swerve something. That's when you need to train your brain to push in the direction you want to go but even then it's still a pretty natural feeling. |
|
August 2nd, 2012, 09:08 AM | #12 |
Revolver Wario
Name: Jeffrey
Location: La Palma, CA
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2003 Ninja 250 Posts: 198
Logo Dude
|
Do it over 15 mph. I thought my MSF instructor was on crack, until I did it at 20 mph.
__________________________________________________
|
|
August 2nd, 2012, 06:34 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Malinda
Location: Jonesboro, LA
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R Posts: 484
|
What helped me figure it out was that I was able to drive (when no traffic was around) and practiced going from side to side down a small strip of road, you will become familiar with your bike and how countersteering works.
|
|
August 4th, 2012, 09:22 PM | #14 |
Mr. 988
Name: Jeff
Location: Sandy, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): One Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
This video is one of the best in explaining how countersteering works and looks (Plus it gets bonus points for using a Ninja 250)
__________________________________________________
"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to" - Jimi Hendrix Cancer |
|
August 4th, 2012, 10:15 PM | #15 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
K. Code would not 100% agree with everything in that video. While it's a great aid for describing countersteering. There is debate if the bike will hold its lean without ANY steering input. K. Code believes it will hold its line even if hands are removed from the bars.
Anyway..... What is missing from most of this discussion and taken for granted in the above video is, "When to countersteer, how hard to countersteer and how long do I countersteer". When - That is the easy part, as soon as you want to turn. How Hard - How fast do you need to get your bike leaned over. How Long - You will need to continue to push the bar as long as it takes to set the appropriate lean you need to negotiate the turn and to adjust path throughout a curve. In general, 1-2 seconds is an eternity in the context of countersteering and a little bit of countersteering goes a long way. It will be different for every rider and road/track. And like many skills with enough practice, will be something taken for granted.
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
|
August 5th, 2012, 06:19 AM | #16 |
The Violet Vixen
Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R) Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '16
|
Believe it or not you'll find yourself doing it without thinking the first time you take the bike to speed; you just might not realize it is what you're doing if you didn't know about counter steering (a lot of people think "I'm leaning over" when they're actually counter steering to cause the lean).
Seriously the 'basics' of the technique are best experienced, and you can discuss/understand it better once you've done it. |
|
August 5th, 2012, 07:41 AM | #17 | |
Mr. 988
Name: Jeff
Location: Sandy, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): One Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to" - Jimi Hendrix Cancer |
|
|
August 5th, 2012, 08:15 AM | #18 | |
Mr. 988
Name: Jeff
Location: Sandy, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): One Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
I'm pretty sure that Keith Code is correct and I suppose that railing through a corner without your hands on the bars is possible. You would have to have a throttle lock to do it. However bumps in the road, mismanaged throttle inputs, or a squirrel running in front of you in mind corner might necessitate a nudge on the bar to tighten your line through a corner. Mr. Code paraphrased: Once a turn is initiated by countersteering the bike should hold the arc through a turn as it is stable while leaned over under throttle. Sorry if I muddied the waters on a simple discussion. Jeff
__________________________________________________
"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to" - Jimi Hendrix Cancer |
|
|
August 5th, 2012, 11:32 AM | #19 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Malinda
Location: Jonesboro, LA
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R Posts: 484
|
I thought the video showed someone who doesn't understand the physics of countersteering and hopefully understand it a bit more. I have been able to enjoy my rides alot more since I have learned how to do it properly. I have had gusty days and continued with countersteering with confidence again!!! Anyone that has not practiced this or thinking they don't need to (like I did) is really putting themselves in danger as well as other riders. I could have easily caused a 2 car accident when I was blown off the road by a strong gust of wind. My 2 cents, practice, practice, practice till you feel comfortable with yourself and your bike.
|
|
August 5th, 2012, 11:36 AM | #20 | |
The Violet Vixen
Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R) Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '16
|
Quote:
|
|
|
August 5th, 2012, 03:13 PM | #21 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Malinda
Location: Jonesboro, LA
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R Posts: 484
|
Thanks Yakaru, I will check out that DVD, I can use all the help I can get
|
|
August 5th, 2012, 04:44 PM | #22 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Zacko
Location: Asia
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R Posts: 84
|
i dont even know what counter steering is .. as long as i can turn im fine
well maybe i will read some about it |
|
August 5th, 2012, 05:43 PM | #23 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
|
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
|
August 5th, 2012, 06:17 PM | #24 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Wes
Location: Sumter SC
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 650r 2009 Vulcan 800 2005 Posts: 557
|
If I can add to the discussion here without adding any confusion....
We all realize that mass in motion wants to stay in motion, and mass that is stationary wants to stay in place. Now let's ignore the fact that you are traveling at say 60mph. Let's just look only at the left/right component. You are stationary left to right. If you want to turn, you must initiate a lean. Since all of the mass of the bike is above the point of contact on the ground, that is the place you've got to begin the lean. Now if you lean your body in the direction you want to turn, it's going to take a while for the bike to start to lean over... you have to overcome the gyro effects of the wheels and your mass that is up high has to start moving - and that takes time. But what if you could drive the wheels out from under the bike (left/right)? That would start your lean very quickly. Your mass would stay stationary (left to right) and the bottom of the bike moves out from under you. Now you are in a lean and the bike will naturally turn. When you are finished with the turn, you simply steer the bottom of the bike back under you. This works at any lean angle. If you want to lean more, you steer the wheels out away from you. If you want to lean less drive the wheels under you. Once you have established a lean angle that is correct for your the radius of you turn, you let the steering go neutral and enter a state of equilibrium. You maintain this neutral steering until you exit the curve and need to stand up straight. At that point, "drive" (steer) the wheels back under you. At slow speeds (like a u turn in a parking lot) and you are in a lean turning and let's say you feel like the bike is about to fall over... you have 3 choices. 1)let it fall, 2)goose the throttle, 3) steer into the center of the turn. You certainly don't want to drop the bike, so 2 and 3 are your options. If you goose the throttle, the bike could stumble or be out of it's torque range. In other words goosing the throttle may not work. #3 will always work... steer the wheels under you by turning sharper.. turning into the direction you are falling and the bike will right itself. You can practice the idea of steering the bike under you at mid speeds... 2nd gear at 15-20 in a big open parking lot. It's really easy to steer the bottom of the bike around a slalom and your body will stay straight in line. They called this dipping at the MSF class.
__________________________________________________
It's all about the curves. If you ride, you understand. If you have a stick skinny g/f and ride, you're 1/2 way there. |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Turning from a stop | WhiteRice | Riding Skills | 14 | September 10th, 2011 09:39 AM |
Needs a turning signal | dlebe250 | Items Wanted | 6 | May 29th, 2011 05:15 PM |
I think I am turning Japanese! | KawiRider | General Motorcycling Discussion | 9 | February 22nd, 2011 07:44 PM |
Turning Signals.. | supermanzdead | Riding Skills | 19 | November 8th, 2010 06:59 PM |
What turning signals are these? | areifel | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Farkles | 5 | November 8th, 2010 05:32 AM |
|
|