Can't ride slow

[Thorgrim]

OK, I'll admit it - I suck at the extreme low speed, the rear-brake and clutch-riding maneuvers they teach in the MSF classes. Back when rocks were soft I rode a Bultaco Alpina (basically a trials bike with bigger seat and tank) and could stop, hop the wheel over 6" at a time to make a 90 degree turn, and think nothing of it. Just fun stuff, everyday riding. I should mention that I have a lot more hours logged riding dirt than riding street and I suspect that the wider range of front steering has spoiled me a bit.

On a street bike I truly, utterly suck at extremely low-speed turns. I grok the technique, but my performance of same is chequered at best. It's a challenge I for some reason cannot refuse, though, leading to some interesting parking lot situations.

So, I've had the class. I know the drill. WTF is wrong with me that I can't consistently execute these maneuvers? I'll admit that my fine motor skills regarding balance aren't up to par given a failed lumbar surgery, but I'm not all that gawky. Ego-wise I'd rather splat at speed (and only ego-wise) than fall over in a damned parking lot. Hell, I broke a shoulder blade falling over at a dead stop with ATGATT, I'd have faired better popping off at 60.

There has to be something wrong with my riding technique that someone here can see. Go ahead, ridicule me as long as you include good advice. I damned near missed a dab (that I shouldn't have needed) last week and almost turned the bike over again. At a grade school. Imagine the shame. I can thread a needle with it when it's moving, but despite the MSF-taught rear-brake-riding and clutch-slipping **** I fail miserably at walking speeds.

Please, guys, give me the secret.

[Motofool]

Bob,

You could try leaving the clutch alone and using only steady throttle and variable rear brake.

That is what we do for MotoGymkhana practices and works very well with my Ninja.

I keep my fingers on the clutch for the moments when I over-brake and the engine starts jerking.

These discussions may help you:
http://amgrass.com/forum/practice-practice-practice/

[Alex]

I think the trick is all in the vision. If you know the basic technique (how to turn the bars, how much rear brake to apply, how to keep the throttle on smoothly), then the only thing that makes it all work is turning your head enough and looking where you want to go. For a tight u-turn, that means turning your head all the way around (like the exorcist) and looking at where you want to exit, not where the bike is pointed. Whenever I feel clunky or uncoordinated at low speeds, I realize that I'm getting lazy and not looking where I want the bike to go.

[Asspire]

speaking of which, have you done anything to your cush drive @Motofool? mines has a bit of slop that makes slow speed maneuvers a pain without clutch usage.


I use rear brake and throttle for slow speed turning, having a firm grip on the tank with ur legs help too

[Panda]

I like to feed in a little throttle when I'm super slow on the rear brake to help prevent lash.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Asspire

speaking of which, have you done anything to your cush drive @Motofool? mines has a bit of slop that makes slow speed maneuvers a pain without clutch usage.......

I have done this for my pre-gen, using some tire lube:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_shim_the_cush_drive

I can go really slow for hours.
If I use clutch, then, I can almost move forward at 0 mph.

Copied from some posts at link of post #2 above:


[Some bikes] "can be a bit of a nightmare to control at low speeds especially if they are fuel injected as the delivery is either ON or OFF with nothing inbetween. The trick is to find out how slow the bike will go with the throttle slightly open against the brakes. Do this exercise in a straight lline so that you don't have to think too much about other stuff. Use varying amounts of throttle and brake until you reach a speed where the bike is pulling but not snatching at the transmission. If you release the brake at this speed the bike should surge forward without need for any additional throttle."

"Being acutely aware of the location of the combined centre of gravity (CCofG) at all times is the mark of the top rider and being able to balance the bike whilst it is not moving, or moving very slowly is one of those crucial, but fundamental skills that will make a world of difference to your riding.
The two most common errors encountered when you do the balance exercises are 1) looking down at the ground which leads to 2) being extremely tense in the arms and upper body. Both of these failings have a profound effect on your ability to carry out the exercises successfully as they conspire to disguise the subtle shifts in the position of the CCofG.

Because it has such a beneficial effect on your ability to balance and control the bike as well as work out where you are and where you’re going, looking up, out and around gives you a strong horizontal reference that will help you to balance the bike whether it is upright or banked over.

Remember FAST? Fear+Anxiety+Stress=Tension? Any tension in the upper body is the result of a stressor, so there’s no point in just telling you to relax as unless you remove the stressor(s) first, relaxation will be extremely difficult."

"For most of us and for most of the time we are never troubled by having to steer the bike with the bars at full lock. The only time we probably do is when we are pulling the bike away from its parking spot and only then for a very short time indeed. In fact, most of us only begin to feel happy on the bike when we are going fast enough to only have to make minimal movements of the bars. Big bar movements tend to give most of us a fit of the vapors so we have become conditioned over time to be at our happiest with small bar movements.

In Moto Gymkhana we really have to be able to turn the bike in as small a radius as possible which means having the steering up against the lock stops. Of all the riding modes, this is perhaps the most difficult to master as with the bars locked over you have completely removed your ability to steer the bike by conventional means.

This loss of our primary steering control does not mean we have lost control of our steering as the bike can be steered reasonably well with the bars hard over by a couple of other methods such as weight-shift (not very good) and throttle/brake combination (excellent)......... Eventually you will find that you can make a complete circle with the bars at full lock while managing the steering by making adjustments to the amount of brake applied........Start by riding in a circle with the throttle open and slowly add greater and greater amounts of rear brake which will cause the bike to lean over and the bars to turn..........knowing that you can instantly recover to normal (by releasing the rear brake) will allow you to overcome this feeling and let the bars turn fully............... Eventually you will find the combinations of throttle and brake that will allow you to steer the bike even though the bars are fully locked over."

[akima]

@Motofool: you're really selling me on this MotoGymkhana stuff! It sounds fun.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by akima

@Motofool: you're really selling me on this MotoGymkhana stuff! It sounds fun.

It has been challenging and rewarding to me during the last two years............. having still a long way to go before achieving decent performance.

It is more popular in UK than here in USA, having some riders practicing with you is very useful.

You may like it, no fancy tires or anything,...... just your bike, an empty lot, some cones and a stopwatch.

[CC Cowboy]

Riding slow is all in the balance.

Could mean body.

Could mean clutch-throttle.

Could mean brake.

Could mean all the above.

[NevadaWolf]

Sadly I cannot help, but I just want to say that this,

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I grok the technique...

brought a huge smile to my face, thank you.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

On a street bike I truly, utterly suck at extremely low-speed turns.
...
Ego-wise I'd rather splat at speed (and only ego-wise) than fall over in a damned parking lot. Hell, I broke a shoulder blade falling over at a dead stop with ATGATT, I'd have faired better popping off at 60.
...
I fail miserably at walking speeds.

Please, guys, give me the secret.

You sound like me three years ago when I first started riding. I've done my share of slow or stopped pavement inspections. You're not exactly the poster boy for ATGATT if you broke your shoulder blade from a dead stop. Maybe you need to drink more milk.

For the rest, I have two suggestions.

For street corners, go at street speed. That way you aren't getting hung up with all the balancing stuff you have to do at low speed. As long as the road isn't slick for whatever reason, you should be able to make a corner doing 15-20 mph with no problem. That's just into the countersteering speed so corners are easier.

For places where you have to go slow, cheat. Take your feet off the pegs and go slow enough that you can catch the bike with your feet if it tries to tip over. Just be mindful that if the bike isn't actually stopped when your feet contact the ground that you could injure your knees. Use your best judgement is all I can say.

Best thing is to just find a parking lot somewhere and practice. Eventually, you'll build up your skills.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

You sound like me three years ago when I first started riding. I've done my share of slow or stopped pavement inspections. You're not exactly the poster boy for ATGATT if you broke your shoulder blade from a dead stop. Maybe you need to drink more milk.

Well, at 61 and with R.A., I've probably drunk all the milk that will help.

I think part of it (also due to the mostly dirt background) is that I can take a city right-angle turn at a lot more speed than I do but that requires I commit to the turn, and I'm concerned that if I lay the bike over I won't be able to respond as quickly when a cage driver does something stupid. The constant stupidity on the road by drivers somewhat freaks me out and is possibly making me overcautious. Notice I said "when", not "if", when you get on the road/streets you can bet it won't be long until someone pulls a bonehead move, especially now with cellphones and texting. I had three potential near misses/hits this morning and I'm a very conservative, observant rider. Sometimes I think I'd be better off riding like a damned streetfighter/hooligan and getting by them before they have time to screw up ... and then I remember what happens to most hooligans in the end.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

For places where you have to go slow, cheat. Take your feet off the pegs and go slow enough that you can catch the bike

I didn't know you rode a stretched busa!

[alex.s]

moar rear brake

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Well, at 61 and with R.A., I've probably drunk all the milk that will help.

I think part of it (also due to the mostly dirt background) is that I can take a city right-angle turn at a lot more speed than I do but that requires I commit to the turn, and I'm concerned that if I lay the bike over I won't be able to respond as quickly when a cage driver does something stupid. The constant stupidity on the road by drivers somewhat freaks me out and is possibly making me overcautious. Notice I said "when", not "if", when you get on the road/streets you can bet it won't be long until someone pulls a bonehead move, especially now with cellphones and texting. I had three potential near misses/hits this morning and I'm a very conservative, observant rider. Sometimes I think I'd be better off riding like a damned streetfighter/hooligan and getting by them before they have time to screw up ... and then I remember what happens to most hooligans in the end.

[SOAPBOX MODE]
Somebody like you with RA should ride ATGATT++ - even with boots. If you are like most folks with RA, you have been gobbling cortisone to keep the pain at bay. No finger pointing or blame, its just that people will do what they have to do when they are in pain. The problem is that cortisone turns the bones super brittle and falling off the bike at zero speed can actually break bones.

I had a friend that was eaten up with RA and was taking cortisone constantly. One day she got out of her car, locked the door, heard a snap, it was her hip. She went down, landing on her arm. Broke that. And then finally, her collar bone snapped before she came to a rest. So for some strange reason I have a bad attitude when it comes to cortisone.[/SOAPBOX MODE]

Anyhow, regarding the dirt background, another friend has a dirt background and he has to this day a hard time going around corners without putting his foot down. I said before to do that at creeping/walking speed in parking lots to make sharp, slow turns. On the street, you should never put your foot down going around a corner because you can lose it. He's getting better though, but even still, he always slows down to car speed when going around a corner.

Regarding traffic, its best to keep up with the flow and never hold anyone back. If you do, its a recipe for biker road pizza because it makes people mad. I usually make a point to follow a safe distance behind a car. That makes it so that people pulling out will see the car even if they don't see me.

The bottom line is that you need to practice. Dirt and gravel are our enemies on the street. They will send you to the pavement pretty fast if you aren't careful. Same thing goes for leaves and pine needles.

[dcx4610]

What helped me was to get on an empty street with a slight decline. Give it just a little bit of gas to get it going and then just coast. Grip the tank with your knees and just ride it out.

Slow turns are all about vision and weight distribution. If you have a sharp and slow turn to make it, it helps to turn your wheel in the opposite direction, look in the direction of the turn and then roll into it. Some really tight turns still get me but being a 2 wheeled vehicle, there are going to be some limitations.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

..........I think part of it (also due to the mostly dirt background) is that I can take a city right-angle turn at a lot more speed than I do but that requires I commit to the turn, and I'm concerned that if I lay the bike over I won't be able to respond as quickly when a cage driver does something stupid. The constant stupidity on the road by drivers somewhat freaks me out and is possibly making me overcautious. Notice I said "when", not "if", when you get on the road/streets you can bet it won't be long until someone pulls a bonehead move, especially now with cellphones and texting.............

All that is true, Bob.
But it is not less true that riding with fear of traffic is very dangerous.
You are distracted by so many sources of danger converging at you in little time, real and imaginary dangers.
If your brain gets overwhelmed by your imagination, you have little chance to react properly to the real danger.

We have to be alert of traffic while flowing within traffic.
We expect anything and put out a little fire at a time, no fire = no reason to think.
Type A fire needs type A response (evasive maneuver), once we have evaded it successfully, it belongs to the past and alertness is ready for any new type of fire, ....... prepared but calmed.

Traffic is not that complicated or impossible or dangerous, or I will not be writing this now.
I don't know how crazy traffic can be in Tennessee, but I know that Florida's is very much.
Like a chess game, learn and practice the moves and rules and enjoy playing it, ................ fearlessly.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Motofool

All that is true, Bob.
But it is not less true that riding with fear of traffic is very dangerous.
You are distracted by so many sources of danger converging at you in little time, real and imaginary dangers.
If your brain gets overwhelmed by your imagination, you have little chance to react properly to the real danger.

We have to be alert of traffic while flowing within traffic.
We expect anything and put out a little fire at a time, no fire = no reason to think.
Type A fire needs type A response (evasive maneuver), once we have evaded it successfully, it belongs to the past and alertness is ready for any new type of fire, ....... prepared but calmed.

Traffic is not that complicated or impossible or dangerous, or I will not be writing this now.
I don't know how crazy traffic can be in Tennessee, but I know that Florida's is very much.
Like a chess game, learn and practice the moves and rules and enjoy playing it, ................ fearlessly.

Thank you, Moto ... I have a hard time ending it with "fool" after such sage advice.

All the same, at this point I have somewhat a "flight or flight" instinct no matter how hard I try to suppress it. I imagine that in time this issue will resolve itself, I'm concerned with lasting until it does.

My gut instinct, from dirt, is to ride like a hooligan and pass them before they fuggup. As I said earlier, that works, if you can pay off the occasional ticket, until it doesn't work. That's the issue, besides, I think that attitude is a danger to others as well.

As my buddy noted after talking to me, I don't trust the tires having spent most of my riding life when tires sucked. Getting used to pushing up a berm for traction with the front brake definitely doesn't help matters on the street either. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I'm just not a street rider, although I may need a little street to get to a place that's in my comfort zone. I think it's important to find your niche, and more and more I know that "the street" isn't mine, no matte if I have to endure it to get to OHV-space.

I hate to admit defeat (and I haven't yet, but I'm close), but I think all of us need to play to whatever strengths we have, however small they may be.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

........My gut instinct, from dirt, is to ride like a hooligan and pass them before they fuggup. As I said earlier, that works, if you can pay off the occasional ticket, until it doesn't work. That's the issue, besides, I think that attitude is a danger to others as well.....

That works when is safe, but it is more the exception than the rule.
What I have been successfully doing is moving at the average traffic speed, few times 10 mph faster, few times 5 mph slower.
Keeping clear sides is key, positioning next to a car must be brief.

Maybe these could help you some:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=127127

Riding Safer

There is no objective reason for not trusting your street tires if you roll no much above speed limit.
The lean angles and lateral forces on your contact patches will always be moderate.
I ride in the rain with less than performing tires and have not had any dramatic slides, even while braking hard.

Your real barrier is mental, rather than physical.
It is very hard to break, though.
There is no reality, only perception.
If you firmly believe that your grip is marginal, that will become real and solid to you and you will ride dangerously slowly and insecurely.

Again, the same applies to traffic: it is bad, but still manageable.

Before quitting, I would recommend practicing and getting intimate with your bike and tires away from traffic.
Then, if you feel more confident, start pushing that mental limit a little at a time until becoming comfortable again.
Only then, you will be able to jump into light easy traffic.

In the condition that you are riding the street currently, you are overwhelming your brain with excessive computations: the tires, that truck that may do something, that car that is actually cutting you off.
The result of forcing you on that stressful situation is reaching a point of panic, possibly at the worst moment.
Once you panic, you have no control over a bad situation, you will not try escaping it.
Please, don't push yourself into that disaster; just step back for a while and start over, working on the basics.

You are welcome.
My best !!!

[Thorgrim]

Thanks for the advice, folks, there's a lot here to think about and do.

I'm not giving up, I was just a little rattled last night from yesterday's short ride when I posted that. I had one driver cut me off - no reason, just wanted to change lanes and apparently couldn't see my headlight in his/her mirror. Then, an oncoming driver pulled the boneheaded maneuver we all dread, a no-signal left turn in front of me. But, I somewhat anticipated both of those and had good lane position.

The third near-miss rattled me, though. I was in a turn-either-way lane behind a woman in a car, we're both going to turn left into the parking lot of a strip mall. She misses several good, safe opportunities to turn, then finally commits to the turn and there's an ample break in oncoming traffic, so I start turning behind her. She enters the parking lot ... almost ... and stops dead with her rear bumper still out in traffic to pick up her damned cellphone, leaving me across the oncoming lane at just about the time the traffic light changes and I see a wall of cars and trucks coming at me. I had to swerve left into the "out" lane of the parking lot quickly and stopped right beside her (I could have slapped her window, or her head had the window been down) - and she's still looking down at the damned phone and hasn't seen me. It was quite a bit hairier than it sounds.

I suppose I should have waited until she had completely entered the lot, but that's hindsight and as has been pointed out, you can't ride fearing everything. At least I had my eye on an escape route in advance, it would have been really bad if I hadn't.

Oh well. As the Japanese poet Bassho said, "A certain number of fleas is good for a dog, otherwise he might forget he's a dog". Maybe a certain number of near misses is good for a rider, too.

[n4mwd]

I used to get upset at every single near miss, but in the end, it does you no good. Just use it as a behavior analysis tool for the next time.

You KNOW that a rattlesnake is dangerous, and you KNOW that he could strike. Yet there are expert snake handlers that can pick one up with their bare hands. If you want to survive as a biker, you need to study and learn how cagers think. So minivans, SUV's, and dumb broads with cell phones should all be treated like rattlesnakes. You need to study their behavior and learn how to handle them without getting bit.

When it comes to cagers, trust no one. Look at what their car is actually doing and not what they ought to do.

[Thorgrim]

Well, today I finally figured out what's "spooking" me on a street bike - it's the limited amount of steering before I hit fork lock combined with the quicker turn-in of 17" street wheels/tires.

I got on the wrong street today - NO traffic, no good turnoffs/driveways, and no real reason not to pull a u-turn. I ended up using all of both lanes to keep from hitting the fork stops which I no longer trust at all. On a dirt bike I could bang the stop and let up, bang and let up, and have full confidence throughout the process. I think I've hit the "can't teach an old dog new tricks", although I aced the MSF course .. with trepidation throughout.

So, I'm thinking an adventure bike or maybe a supermoto would be a far more comfy and confident ride for me. There's not a thing wrong with my CB500F, but it may not be the right bike for me. Yes, I could learn to ride it better ... but why just throw away almost two decades of experience just to bend my will to something different that I am enjoying less and less? If I were 20, 30, I'd bend to the bike. At plus 60, I think it best if the bike bends to me. I already know what's going to happen - if things get hairy my subconscious will take over and I'll do what I've always done. On a dirt-oriented bike that may just get me out of a jam; riding like that on a street oriented bike isn't going to have a happy ending.

Luckily it looks like selling my house is going to happen, so I can buy what I want within reason. I think I just chose poorly when I got back into riding, but ... WTF, it got me back into riding and despite my quibbles I'm loving it.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

..........At plus 60, I think it best if the bike bends to me. I already know what's going to happen - if things get hairy my subconscious will take over and I'll do what I've always done........

[n4mwd]

When I first started riding, I trouble with tight corners, but that was my fault and not the bike's. Actually, I later learned that the Dumlop tires on the thing were causing a lot of grief that I didn't realize back then. Might want to check that on your CB500F. Could be your problem.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

When I first started riding, I trouble with tight corners, but that was my fault and not the bike's. Actually, I later learned that the Dumlop tires on the thing were causing a lot of grief that I didn't realize back then. Might want to check that on your CB500F. Could be your problem.

i figured it was just me. When I go full lock it seems like the front end is turning in and out slightly even with my weight static, clutch slipping and rear braking to keep the speed even. I hadn't though much of it as I'm accustomed to having the front end of a dirt bike "hunt around a bit".

[n4mwd]

The Ninja 250 is a lightweight bike and closer to a dirt bike in that respect. I'm not sure why you have a Honda on a Kawi forum. I don't have any experience riding a Honda CB500F so I might have just as hard of time as you are.

A lot of older guys go for cruisers. I don't think they are very maneuverable, but they will get you from point A to point B. I wouldn't want to be on one if a car pulls out in front of me.

Another option, although not a good one, is a trike. Trikes combine the disadvantages of both cars and motorcycles and throw out all the advantages.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I'm not sure why you have a Honda on a Kawi forum

Now, now... one day you may not have a ninja but I would like to think we will still have you around.

Variety is the spice of life good sir.

[n4mwd]

Well I wasn't criticizing, but it is unusual.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Bob,

You could try leaving the clutch alone and using only steady throttle and variable rear brake.

That is what we do for MotoGymkhana practices and works very well with my Ninja.

I keep my fingers on the clutch for the moments when I over-brake and the engine starts jerking.

These discussions may help you:
http://amgrass.com/forum/practice-practice-practice/

motogymkhana is ridiculous, their slow speed control is unreal. thanks for the tip

[Thorgrim]

Sorry, been dealing with life's little bullshits and neglected to return to this thread. All's sorted out in RL now, more or less.

I have a Honda on a Ninja forum because I had the Honda before I discovered this forum while looking for good discussions on riding techniques. And, hell, I like motos of all sorts, nearly all of them. I may even end up with a Ninja some day, I'm certainly not opposed to the idea, I think they're cool bikes.

Overall, my riding is coming together a lot. Maybe I'm finally loosening up a bit. The advice I've gotten here, along with other posts I've been reading here, are a major factor I believe - as I assimilate them to some degree instead of consciously thinking about them I find I apply more and more of them without conscious thought. A few seconds after the fact I realize just why that particular situation went well for a change, but not while it's happening. I judge that to be a good thing that unclutters my mind a lot.

I'd have to say that the CB500F may be difficult for a lot of riders at extremely slow speed maneuvering as the EFI and fairly low first gear make fine throttle adjustments difficult - it's snatchy at creeping speeds. Adjusting the throttle linkage so there is zero slack helped some, but it's still twitchy just off idle and the fact that it's pretty torquey isn't helpful on full lock turns. I added a little Spitfire windscreen and that really helped at speeds above 50. Many of the reviews I've found online have complained about wind on the bike, the instrument cluster works as a too-short fairing and throws air right at your chest and head. An old-school round headlight and speedo-in-a-can would work better but be out of place style-wise. Expect a brisk aftermarket in windscreens if many of these hit the dealers.

The supermoto idea I had is not likely to happen, as my riding buddy is on an SV1000 and it would be difficult to plan a route for trips that would suit both bikes. He would accommodate my preference for staying off the slab entirely should I buy an SM but he shouldn't have to do so as I have choices.

[akima]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I used to get upset at every single near miss, but in the end, it does you no good. Just use it as a behavior analysis tool for the next time.

You KNOW that a rattlesnake is dangerous, and you KNOW that he could strike. Yet there are expert snake handlers that can pick one up with their bare hands. If you want to survive as a biker, you need to study and learn how cagers think. So minivans, SUV's, and dumb broads with cell phones should all be treated like rattlesnakes. You need to study their behavior and learn how to handle them without getting bit.

When it comes to cagers, trust no one. Look at what their car is actually doing and not what they ought to do.

This is amazing advice. All so true! If I could tell a new street rider only one thing, it would be this.

[AlanDog]

The CB500F is basically like a dirt bike in terms of its upright positioning. I've never ridden the bike but cycle-ergo.com says it's a 11 degree forward lean, which is more upright than a pregen.

Your initial post makes me think of how my pregen just had a sticky clutch cable and that really made it impossible to feather the clutch. When doing the MSF I had a dirt bike and the clutch was much smoother. So verify the clutch engagement is smooth.

It sounds like you have alot of experience with different bikes so maybe you need to re-train yourself on how that bike handles. It sounds like you have expectations of how it should handle (like your old bikes).

Practice more in a safe place until the handling is second nature.

[Thorgrim]

Well, I've had some revelations in the past couple of weeks and my riding has drastically improved (not "there" yet, but far better). What's odd is that they are relatively disconnected.

The first one is a bit personal, but I'll share it because it may help someone else. My neurosurgeon (I have a damaged low back) prescribed Gabapentin (trade name Neurontin) to stop the nerve pain down the back of my legs. Thanks to an Iraq War vet I know who's taking the same thing, I found out that it can eventually screw up the fine motor skill part of your balance. I stopped taking it, and much of my low-speed balance returned. Also, I have a better doctor now. I have zero doubt that when I was trying to negotiate tight turns at full lock, that the diminished fine motor skills were giving me beaucoup problems.

I was riding in entirely the wrong boots, a pair of Alpinestar Scouts. Wonderful boot for offroading a big heavy adventure bike, but combined with the big squishy rubber blocks that Honda puts in the footpegs of the new CB500's, it can be hard to engage/disengage the pegs due to the mutual stickiness. A change to a more street oriented boot helped tons. I'm nearly convinced that the two turnovers I didn't catch were at least partly caused by my boot being somewhat stuck to the peg. The lack of fine balance skills meant that by the time I realized I was tipping, it was a bit late to save it just by throttle/brake/clutch control.

When I was 19 I got my right knee damaged in a mining accident. It works reasonably well, but when putting a lot of weight on it suddenly, it occasionally just folds. That may be why everytime I've tipped it's been to the right side. Maybe it's because I live in NASCAR country (I'm not far from Bristol Motor Speedway) and folks like me just aren't accustomed to turning right. Anyway, now that I realize the problem, I can guard against it.

Finally, the problem with buffeting was a ****** helmet. I treated myself to a Bell RS-1 and all that went away. I may take the windscreen off, or at least go to a lower one.

There's still much to re-learn and even more to learn for the first time, and I thank all of you for the great advice and analysis. I'm riding smoother now, less worried about the stupid things that others are bound to keep doing, and no longer feel like "maybe I waited too long to come back to this hobby". I'm enjoying my bike so much that I bought a battery tender for my Jeep, as until the weather gets nasty I'm not using it enough to keep the battery charged.

Again, thanks to all! I may look for a used Ninja (a 300, I think) this winter when I am more likely to get a good deal on one. They sound like one helluva fun ride.

[akima]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Maybe it's because I live in NASCAR country (I'm not far from Bristol Motor Speedway) and folks like me just aren't accustomed to turning right.

Ha ha ha!

You guys must go left around roundabouts too. Not-ambi-turners

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'm riding smoother now, less worried about the stupid things that others are bound to keep doing, and no longer feel like "maybe I waited too long to come back to this hobby". I'm enjoying my bike so much that I bought a battery tender for my Jeep, as until the weather gets nasty I'm not using it enough to keep the battery charged.

Awesome! That's a great outcome. I hope you enjoy your many street motorcycle journeys to come.

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I may look for a used Ninja (a 300, I think) this winter when I am more likely to get a good deal on one. They sound like one helluva fun ride.

Even more awesome! There's a shiny Ninjette waiting for you out there somewhere.

[rojoracing53]

I can't tell you any ground breaking secrets but I can relate it to something simular that may help.

Bicycles they're easy to maneuver at slow speeds, do you know why It's because bicycles truly coast with no engine input so they are very predictable. Yes a bicycle is 5-10% the weight of a motorcycle but that engine input is far more damaging to your balance then the extra weight. Not being a believer in the MSF nor a graduate I have zero idea what they try to teach or how they go about explaining it so I have to go on is what I learned naturally.

I have several obstacles and super tight U-turns I ride through on a regular basis and I do most of it with the clutch completely pulled in and the bike free wheeling. The only weakness to this technique is without throttle input the only way to keep the bike from falling over as you scrub speed is to gradually tighten your steering radius, it's nothing drastic and for the most part happens automatically. It's for that reason you should have good "off to on" clutch control because if while in the middle of you maneuver you lack the option to keep decreasing your radius you then feed a little clutch and throttle to get the bike up then pull back in the clutch to continue. When you release the clutch this way your never let it out all the way, id guess it's more like 20-30% engagement so your just slipping it.

I believe it is a challenging technique in the it requires all inputs to be done delicately but that's all there is to it. I'd say I'm quite a bit better at super tight u-turns and such then @CycleCam303 but he's not bad at them by any means ether. Cameron you seen my clutch technique on several occasions and I've explained it to you in the past so what method are you using these days?

[Dragone]

hahaha, blame it on the drugs! Although injuries will dictate how a person rides as well.

Great to see you are feeling more comfy with your ride. Congrats on exploring different gear to fit your needs as well. Way cool

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Dragone

hahaha, blame it on the drugs! Although injuries will dictate how a person rides as well.

Great to see you are feeling more comfy with your ride. Congrats on exploring different gear to fit your needs as well. Way cool

Well, hell, it couldn't possibly be MY fault, could it? I mean my only imperfection is that I'm overly modest.

Honestly, this has been like CSI-splat trying to figure out just what happened. I at least have some suspects now.

[JohnnyBravo]

Your one tough fellow! Glad your stickin with it and figuring it all out

[caineroad]

stay relax, focus where you want to go, and do more practice in parking lots. These are all gained from experience, you cant do slow riding all of a sudden, need a lot of riding time.

[BlownWideOpen]

Use the friction zone