The beginning and end of my riding career

[rasta]

Sounds like a rough tumble, sorry to hear

I might agree that parts of Vegas wouldn't be a great place to ride. Personally, I try to avoid areas where drunk drivers might be prevalent. So at night on weekends, I'm likely to avoid downtown areas where the bars are and college areas where the kids are. I'm sure there are great places to ride in and around Vegas, but I dunno if The Strip is one of them (I've seen The Hangover, people drive drunk there at all hours). At least not at this point of your riding career. As others have said, take the MSF course.

Most important....don't give up! Unless you want to, in which case, do whatever you want

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by rasta

Sounds like a rough tumble, sorry to hear

I might agree that parts of Vegas wouldn't be a great place to ride. Personally, I try to avoid areas where drunk drivers might be prevalent. So at night on weekends, I'm likely to avoid downtown areas where the bars are and college areas where the kids are. I'm sure there are great places to ride in and around Vegas, but I dunno if The Strip is one of them (I've seen The Hangover, people drive drunk there at all hours). At least not at this point of your riding career. As others have said, take the MSF course.

Most important....don't give up! Unless you want to, in which case, do whatever you want

Yea it was pretty similar to this even though I wasn't going as fast.
http://youtu.be/2qRdYLomE3g

I was very lucky there was no cars behind me, and right away some kind strangers gently carried me a few feet over to the sidewalk. Definitely, down town fremont area probably the worst place to ride. I've never ridden anywhere near there hell I won't even take my car there. The strip is covered with cops uniformed and plain clothed undercover who can't wait to pull people over, unfortunately that doesn't stop the taxis from driving crazy. They're usually my main concern. I'm not sure what I plan to do yet, I'm thinking about keeping the bike because the damage is only cosmetic and just riding on weekends in off traffic hours and more rural areas. Basically just using in for pleasure and not to commute or as my main transportation. And I'll definitely be investing in racing boots and a good quality jacket.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by jefe305

Yea it was pretty similar to this even though I wasn't going as fast.
http://youtu.be/2qRdYLomE3g

I was very lucky there was no cars behind me, and right away some kind strangers gently carried me a few feet over to the sidewalk. Definitely, down town fremont area probably the worst place to ride. I've never ridden anywhere near there hell I won't even take my car there. The strip is covered with cops uniformed and plain clothed undercover who can't wait to pull people over, unfortunately that doesn't stop the taxis from driving crazy. They're usually my main concern. I'm not sure what I plan to do yet, I'm thinking about keeping the bike because the damage is only cosmetic and just riding on weekends in off traffic hours and more rural areas. Basically just using in for pleasure and not to commute or as my main transportation. And I'll definitely be investing in racing boots and a good quality jacket.

I had my bike close to 2 months before I felt like I had a good chance of being OK in an emergency stop before I started commuting.

[NevadaWolf]

Sorry to hear about the crash, hope you heal up and can get back on.

Lots of beautiful places to ride around you, but yeah Fremont and the rest are not fun at all. Best I feel safe bringing my bike to Vegas is taking the 215 beltway thing to slip between 93 and I-15.

[jefe305]

Update I went to the orthopedic today and it's bad I'm going to need screws and plates put into my ankle. Worst part is he did a realignment today right there in the office with no pain meds in my system. I was screaming, sweating and couldn't stop shaking for 2 hours afterwards from the extreme pain.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by jefe305

Update I went to the orthopedic today and it's bad I'm going to need screws and plates put into my ankle. Worst part is he did a realignment today right there in the office with no pain meds in my system. I was screaming, sweating and couldn't stop shaking for 2 hours afterwards from the extreme pain.

Dang bro, those are the symptoms of shock. Stay ahead of your pain ya know.

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

Sorry to hear about the crash, hope you heal up and can get back on.

Lots of beautiful places to ride around you, but yeah Fremont and the rest are not fun at all. Best I feel safe bringing my bike to Vegas is taking the 215 beltway thing to slip between 93 and I-15.

How often do you travel to vegas?

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by jefe305

How often do you travel to vegas?

Travel and stick around, maybe once or twice a year. Travel through? Probably going to be somewhat frequently if I continue the lunacy of long distance riding.

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Dang bro, those are the symptoms of shock. Stay ahead of your pain ya know.

yea I can't believe they did a procedure like that with nothing to help the pain.

[rasta]

Originally Posted by jefe305

Update I went to the orthopedic today and it's bad I'm going to need screws and plates put into my ankle. Worst part is he did a realignment today right there in the office with no pain meds in my system. I was screaming, sweating and couldn't stop shaking for 2 hours afterwards from the extreme pain.

Damn, reading that actually made me cringe a little bit. Gobble up those pain meds dude. And send me any leftovers

[TnNinjaGirl]

Good luck and I hope you get back on the mend soon.

If it makes you feel any better I got on one of my bikes today and promptly fell over. Oops...

[nineballn00b]

Damn bro thats very unfortunate. After a close call in your same situation, I always think what the drivers around me might be thinking. Its best to always think they are about to swerve over, run the light, or slam on the brakes. Keeps your guard up when you expect the worst in people on the road.

[hpav13]

Originally Posted by jefe305

Update I went to the orthopedic today and it's bad I'm going to need screws and plates put into my ankle. Worst part is he did a realignment today right there in the office with no pain meds in my system. I was screaming, sweating and couldn't stop shaking for 2 hours afterwards from the extreme pain.

Ummm you need a new doctor hun! Good vibes sent your way.

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by hpav13

Ummm you need a new doctor hun! Good vibes sent your way.

yea the ER sent me to him, and gave me an appointment right away.
He has some impressive credentials, seems okay except for this ordeal.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by jefe305

Yea it was pretty similar to this even though I wasn't going as fast.
http://youtu.be/2qRdYLomE3g
...........

Just in case you decide learning from this video, from this mishap and ............ continuing riding:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=264&Set=

Hope you heal well and quickly with minimum medical intervention, Mitchell.

[jefe305]

I'm having the surgery done tomorrow, and then hopefully it'll only be 6 weeks with the cast on and I can start bearing full weight on it and start therapy. Right now I've decided when I'm all better I will start riding again, but just for pleasure not to commute around the busiest parts of town or run errands. And I will be investing in more gear especially racing boots with armored sides. I finally got out today to see my bike damage isn't too bad. [IMG][/IMG]

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Just in case you decide learning from this video, from this mishap and ............ continuing riding:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=264&Set=

Hope you heal well and quickly with minimum medical intervention, Mitchell.

Very interesting thanks

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Klondike1020

But if you ride your motorcycle with situational awareness and you treat every other driver on the road as if they are a threat(not a possible threat) you will be able to anticipate the different things that may happen.

Basically assume every driver is waiting for the perfect moment to kill you.

because that is about the jist of it.

watch your 6 because they will rear-end you or plain run you over. watch your sides because they will merge into and over you
watch in front because they will blow lights cut you off come head on while texting.

That's the same basic advice I give other riders. Simply ride paranoid. When riders assume that they will be treated fairly and with respect like they are when driving a car then that is the time when they start having bad accidents and getting killed. If he can pull in front of you, then he probably will.

Just 2 days before Christmas a lady down here was killed riding a Harley at only 40mph when an idiot in a minivan pulled across her path. Expect the unexpected. Cagers do stupid things sometimes. Its in their nature. And yes, she was wearing a helmet.

Mitchell I hope you recover quickly and don't get discouraged. When I first started riding I dropped the bike within 2 days and was ready to call it quits. Thank goodness I didn't. Now I can't imagine quitting even after the last tumble messed up my rotator cuff for about 6 months.

If you haven't already, try the MSF course. I still talk to "experienced" bikers every now and then that don't know the basics taught in that course. But that isn't to say experience doesn't matter, because it does. And you need more of it. Especially in terms of braking.

[JustRidin]

Welcome! However, I do hope you don't quit motorcycling so quickly! Many of us go through a wreck early on in our riding days, best to learn from it! If you still feel comfortable riding I say fix the bike up, let your body heal, and go back out on the bike a bit wiser next time.

Also, invest in some riding pants if you don't have any yet! Your legs are too important not to!

Lastly, $400 for 2 days in the impound lot?!? I feel for you...

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by JustRidin

Welcome! However, I do hope you don't quit motorcycling so quickly! Many of us go through a wreck early on in our riding days, best to learn from it! If you still feel comfortable riding I say fix the bike up, let your body heal, and go back out on the bike a bit wiser next time.

Also, invest in some riding pants if you don't have any yet! Your legs are too important not to!

Lastly, $400 for 2 days in the impound lot?!? I feel for you...

Right now I've decided when I'm all better I will start riding again, but just for pleasure not to commute around the busiest parts of town or run errands. And I will be investing in more gear especially racing boots with armored sides. Yeah they gave me some BS about having to call a special tow truck for the bike and that's why it's so much. Along with some other nonsense. I put it on credit, and now I've opened a chargeback claim with my credit card company. So maybe I'll be able to get some of it taken off.

[Felipe the Ant]

Originally Posted by jefe305

I finally got out today to see my bike damage isn't too bad.

Typical, they crash well. You might want to take a look at the bracket that holds the foot peg and make sure it's not cracked or anything. Those usually break right off but I think they're designed to. It'd suck to stand up to adjust your crotch and have it snap off lol

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by jefe305

Right now I've decided when I'm all better I will start riding again, but just for pleasure not to commute around the busiest parts of town or run errands. And I will be investing in more gear especially racing boots with armored sides. Yeah they gave me some BS about having to call a special tow truck for the bike and that's why it's so much. Along with some other nonsense. I put it on credit, and now I've opened a chargeback claim with my credit card company. So maybe I'll be able to get some of it taken off.

They DO need a special truck for Motorcycles, but its just a flatbed tow truck. The regular trucks just pick up one end of the car and tow it on two of its own wheels. You can't do that very well with a motorcycle. A motorcycle also requires a different tiedown technique than a car. The idea is to keep the bike upright if possible when towing. Unfortunately, if the bike has already been sliding around on the asphalt on its side, a few more feet up the tow truck ramp isn't really going to hurt things that much. And of course, if the bike was totaled, it doesn't really matter.

After an accident, if you are still conscious, and the bike has to be towed, have it towed back to your house. They might require payment at that time because they can't hold your bike for ransom when you do it that way. If you don't say, they automatically tow it to the impound yard.

If you are injured and can't supervise the tow, call a friend to help you out. He might have to pay the tow fee (~$35), but you can pay him back. Or you can just give him your credit card.

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

They DO need a special truck for Motorcycles, but its just a flatbed tow truck. The regular trucks just pick up one end of the car and tow it on two of its own wheels. You can't do that very well with a motorcycle. A motorcycle also requires a different tiedown technique than a car. The idea is to keep the bike upright if possible when towing. Unfortunately, if the bike has already been sliding around on the asphalt on its side, a few more feet up the tow truck ramp isn't really going to hurt things that much. And of course, if the bike was totaled, it doesn't really matter.

After an accident, if you are still conscious, and the bike has to be towed, have it towed back to your house. They might require payment at that time because they can't hold your bike for ransom when you do it that way. If you don't say, they automatically tow it to the impound yard.

If you are injured and can't supervise the tow, call a friend to help you out. He might have to pay the tow fee (~$35), but you can pay him back. Or you can just give him your credit card.

I made it clear to the paramedics and witnesses who called for help to tell the police when they arrive that the bike was not to be towed and that I had someone coming for it. I was taken by ambulance to the hospital way before the tow truck showed up. My dad arrived at the scene of the accident as they were loading my bike onto the tow truck. We were going to have a friend with a trailer pick it up but they wouldn't release it. My house was 4 miles away and they refused to tow it there. They ended up bringing it to their impound lot which was on the other side of town.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by jefe305

I made it clear to the paramedics and witnesses who called for help to tell the police when they arrive that the bike was not to be towed and that I had someone coming for it. I was taken by ambulance to the hospital way before the tow truck showed up. My dad arrived at the scene of the accident as they were loading my bike onto the tow truck. We were going to have a friend with a trailer pick it up but they wouldn't release it. My house was 4 miles away and they refused to tow it there. They ended up bringing it to their impound lot which was on the other side of town.

I don't know the laws in NV, but if that happened in FL then you would have a pretty good case. Not sure if the chargeback thing will work or not, but you might look into small claims court because they effectively stole your motorcycle. Your dad was there and can testify what he told them.

A friend of mine had a similar situation and called me after his accident. When I got there, the tow truck guy had it loaded and had no problem towing it to my friends house. I had to pay for the tow, but that was OK because the insurance reimbursed me.

Good luck with it.

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I don't know the laws in NV, but if that happened in FL then you would have a pretty good case. Not sure if the chargeback thing will work or not, but you might look into small claims court because they effectively stole your motorcycle. Your dad was there and can testify what he told them.

A friend of mine had a similar situation and called me after his accident. When I got there, the tow truck guy had it loaded and had no problem towing it to my friends house. I had to pay for the tow, but that was OK because the insurance reimbursed me.

Good luck with it.

Thanks, good idea if I can't get anywhere with the credit card companies. I'll take it to court. I have road side assistance and liability with progressive, I don't know if they'll reimburse me on the towing, but I'll look into that too.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by jefe305

Thanks, good idea if I can't get anywhere with the credit card companies. I'll take it to court. I have road side assistance and liability with progressive, I don't know if they'll reimburse me on the towing, but I'll look into that too.

Tow companies can be pretty dishonest sometimes. In FL, if your car/bike ends up in their impound lot, and you don't pay their ransom within so many days, the state allows them to literally print up their own title certificates with someone else's name on them - aka - steal your vehicle and sell it.

If you had insurance, a lot of times they will reimburse you for the ransom - especially if you had collision coverage.

[JohnnyBravo]

This is where one of my favorite sayings comes in... F uck the police(an the tow folks, an the impound lot) darn rackateers, legal ones

[jefe305]

I been thinking about my crash a lot lately, and I think I have a better idea of what happened. I fell on the left side, when you lock up the front brakes don't you usually fall to the right. I'm thinking I correctly braked with the front, but was to hard with the rear brake. I know I applied the front then the rear, so I'm thinking I applied the front correctly the weight shifted to the front, which gave the rear tire less grip so when I applied the rear brake hard it made me wipeout on my left side. Does this sound possible or is it more likely I just applied the front brakes to hard and fell to the left?

[n4mwd]

So did you hit the guy that pulled in front of you or did you just panic brake and go down on your own?

I don't follow your left side - right side theory. When you lock the rears, the bike has a tendency to fishtail so which side you fall on depends on which side it was on when you released the brakes. Releasing the brakes after you start fishtailing is when you get thrown off the bike. The farther from center is the farther you get thrown. If you release when the bike is near inline, then its possible to recover and stay on the bike. The MSF says to keep the brakes locked until you stop.

Once you get your bike fixed (and your foot heals up) you should find a parking lot somewhere and just practice emergency braking. The rear brake is the one that will get you in the most trouble. And it doesn't even help you stop that much. Most of the stopping power comes from the front.

Try experimenting by stopping with only the front brake and no rear brake. Then add a little rear brake pressure to get the feel of it.

When I took the MSF, emergency braking was part of the final exam. Its very important to get it right.

[choneofakind]

As a beginner, I can assure you that you did not apply too much front brake.

[EsrTek]

Grabbing the brakes to hard can send you down on either side, it's all about which way that front wheel is facing.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

As a beginner, I can assure you that you did not apply too much front brake.

Hmmmm, I wouldn't say that is always true. "Too much" is relative to the amount of traction the tire has. In the case of low traction, "too much" is achievable by even the newest of riders.

Left vs. right, think about that for a minute. If in a panic and one grabs the front brake and becomes stiff on the bars, what else are they doing to the bars and how does that effect where the bike goes? So why does the rear get out of sorts (left or right) instead of just doing a stoppie? Still think you can predict which way the bike will fall?

[choneofakind]

Okay, maybe not always then. But most likely you didn't use too much front. I'm guessing it went something like this: Panic. Go hulk on brakes. Foot is strong. Rear locks. Panic more. Release brakes. Fall. From my experience as a typical noob, I'm guessing he went hulk on the rear and only applied about half the front he should have.

Sigh. Csmith12... Keepin me honest yo.

[csmith12]

Naw brah, you were honest. I just wanted to ensure that it didn't deliver the wrong message ya know.



lol

Naw, seriously... with braking as it relates to riding. It quality, not quantity.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by jefe305

I been thinking about my crash a lot lately, and I think I have a better idea of what happened. I fell on the left side, when you lock up the front brakes don't you usually fall to the right..........

It doesn't work that way.
When you did read my previous link, you learned "How dangerous is a quick squeeze" and why.

Too much pressure on that front right lever (Panic reaction = I must stop quick = Apply all possible pressure ASAP !!!) takes the front tire by surprise, which is not ready yet to work with so much pressure in the caliper.
Once the front tire stops rolling, you lose all steering capability and the tire slides forward and very quickly skids to the side opposite to which your bike is leaning, even imperceptibly.
The only solution is to release some pressure to allow the front tire to resume rolling and steering, ........ but we are too scared at that point to think straight.

The frontal support of the bike is violently swept from under you and the combined weight of the bike and rider slams the ground also violently.
Your shoulder receives a strong g force upon impact, which translates into a high compressive stress that shatters the collar bone, which is acting as a column between your shoulder and the rest of your upper body.
"The most common type of (Clavicle) fractures occur when a person falls horizontally on the shoulder."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clavicl...nism_of_injury

In order to be effective (to resist a sliding force of more than 80% the combined weight of bike+rider), the front contact patch needs to have some serious weight on it.
That happens because available traction (rubber-asphalt) directly depends on weight.

It takes some time to transfer most of the weight over that frontal patch of rubber, which can only be achieved with a progressive application of the front brake, or in my case, with a strong simultaneous application and then full release of the rear brake.

In other words, I use the higher weight on the rear patch to induce and initiate the weight transfer and I leave it alone as the weight on it gets reduced (and the chance or rear skid increases).

All you need to learn about braking properly is here:

http://www.msgroup.org/Articles.aspx?Cat=2

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Naw brah, you were honest. I just wanted to ensure that it didn't deliver the wrong message ya know.



lol

Naw, seriously... with braking as it relates to riding. It quality, not quantity.

AHAHAHAHAHA good one

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

So did you hit the guy that pulled in front of you or did you just panic brake and go down on your own?

I don't follow your left side - right side theory. When you lock the rears, the bike has a tendency to fishtail so which side you fall on depends on which side it was on when you released the brakes. Releasing the brakes after you start fishtailing is when you get thrown off the bike. The farther from center is the farther you get thrown. If you release when the bike is near inline, then its possible to recover and stay on the bike. The MSF says to keep the brakes locked until you stop.

Once you get your bike fixed (and your foot heals up) you should find a parking lot somewhere and just practice emergency braking. The rear brake is the one that will get you in the most trouble. And it doesn't even help you stop that much. Most of the stopping power comes from the front.

Try experimenting by stopping with only the front brake and no rear brake. Then add a little rear brake pressure to get the feel of it.

When I took the MSF, emergency braking was part of the final exam. Its very important to get it right.

Nope didn't hit the car. "Keep brakes locked until stopped" but what if you're on a busy Main Street? But I guess in that case coming to a complete stop in traffic can't be any more dangerous than falling off. I practiced and experimented with the brakes plenty. I had it down well, that's why I'm trying to figure out what happened here.

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Okay, maybe not always then. But most likely you didn't use too much front. I'm guessing it went something like this: Panic. Go hulk on brakes. Foot is strong. Rear locks. Panic more. Release brakes. Fall. From my experience as a typical noob, I'm guessing he went hulk on the rear and only applied about half the front he should have.

Sigh. Csmith12... Keepin me honest yo.

I really don't know, I remember grabbing the front hard then rear next thing I know I'm on the ground.

[EsrTek]

Originally Posted by jefe305

I really don't know, I remember grabbing the front hard then rear next thing I know I'm on the ground.

Could've been anything in road really that caused the loss of traction while braking...it may not even be how you braked. A combination of things is usually the cause.
If you didn't survey the scene at the time, going back may help shed some light.

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by Motofool

It doesn't work that way.
When you did read my previous link, you learned "How dangerous is a quick squeeze" and why.

Too much pressure on that front right lever (Panic reaction = I must stop quick = Apply all possible pressure ASAP !!!) takes the front tire by surprise, which is not ready yet to work with so much pressure in the caliper.
Once the front tire stops rolling, you lose all steering capability and the tire slides forward and very quickly skids to the side opposite to which your bike is leaning, even imperceptibly.
The only solution is to release some pressure to allow the front tire to resume rolling and steering, ........ but we are too scared at that point to think straight.

The frontal support of the bike is violently swept from under you and the combined weight of the bike and rider slams the ground also violently.
Your shoulder receives a strong g force upon impact, which translates into a high compressive stress that shatters the collar bone, which is acting as a column between your shoulder and the rest of your upper body.
"The most common type of (Clavicle) fractures occur when a person falls horizontally on the shoulder."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clavicl...nism_of_injury

In order to be effective (to resist a sliding force of more than 80% the combined weight of bike+rider), the front contact patch needs to have some serious weight on it.
That happens because available traction (rubber-asphalt) directly depends on weight.

It takes some time to transfer most of the weight over that frontal patch of rubber, which can only be achieved with a progressive application of the front brake, or in my case, with a strong simultaneous application and then full release of the rear brake.

In other words, I use the higher weight on the rear patch to induce and initiate the weight transfer and I leave it alone as the weight on it gets reduced (and the chance or rear skid increases).

All you need to learn about braking properly is here:

http://www.msgroup.org/Articles.aspx?Cat=2

Very well said. I really appreciate you taking the time to write all that out. However what I don't get is when I hit the ground my head and shoulders never touched it, my left ankle took all the impact and I slid to a stop. If I grabbed to much front brake the bike would of swept under me and I should of hurt of arms and shoulders.