N00bs commuting journal on escaping death

[chemist]

Hey guys! So i tend to dive 100% into something when I pick it up so hopefully you guys don't mind if i journal a bit as I learn to ride. I am hoping to learn from myself here and hopefully learn through you guys. I am putting on a lot of miles quick and don't want to gloss over my learning curve.

Quick Bio:
Bicycle racer(counter-steering comes pretty easy to me). I also broke my hip racing so I have a healthy fear
Took MSF course February 2015 with no experience. Bought ninja 300SE march 1st.

My bike has ~8500 miles on it. Dealer did the service at 7600. I purchased rear stand and did my first oil change at 8k. Super easy!

Ok so ~1000 miles in one month...talk about a learning curve. I stay off the highway for now and honestly I wonder what is safer sometimes. Commuting home in traffic is interesting

Quick notes as I catch up to today:

Gear- perf leather astar with zip together mesh overpants(with padding). cortech waterproof boots and held gaunlet gloves. agv skyline helmet(with sunglass visor). ATGATT and I have religiously stuck to this. Even if it is 5 minutes up the road with my backpack to get food. This gear is COLD!! Really makes me wonder how guys justify no gear in the heat. Under 55F and I have to use my bicycle knowledge and layer like hell with some wind gear. I have been up to 85F and it is not bad unless stuck at a light forever(again though really not bad).

I am finally comfortable going 60mph but I also need to practice my braking drills at speed. This is on my to do list.

I am still a little jerky with the throttle especially at holding speeds around 20-24mph. 20mph is the speed in my subdivision and so I typically roll in third with the throttle barely on as it is a little quieter than running in 2nd at 6k. In traffic at that speed, to be smooth, i tend to play with the clutch a little bit. Hesitant about forming this habit as when the clutch is in I can't get out of sticky situations. No real jerkyness at other speeds but I am sure pretty much everybody is better than me.

Downshifting- easy if I am stopping and brake than clutch in at 4k and downshift but that is because I don't need to revmatch at that point. I am figuring out the bike a bit better and rev matching is becoming a bit easier but again I am sure this will be easier with time and miles.

Holding speed- Since I tend to be on backroads and speed limits vary i.e. my commute I see 20,30,35,40,45,50,55 . I actually watch the revs a bit more as it is easier and I have figured out at about what speed I am at by my revs. That being said, I am a bit fearful about watching my instrument cluster a bit too much and not the road. Hasn't been an issue yet and hopefully with experience I look at it less and less but still...
Same goes for turn signals, what a nightmare in full sun and getting them to turn off while not looking at the instrument panel is going to take time at 1000miles I am still struggling with that.

Ear plugs- I have been wearing them recently but not when I first started. I was a bit slower when I started 5mph under speed limit unless traffic. Now that speeds have picked up a bit I am using ear plugs. Real nice as I can hear myself think but I am still getting used to not hearing the engine as much.

Riding in congested traffic, I am currently at a higher rpm range to optimize power band and tend to ride with my middle finger on the front brake to help reduce reaction time. I have considered some adjustable levers as the middle finger is the only one I can comfortably cover my levers with. I am also trying to use the rear brake a bit more in congestion just to keep my rear light on for small speed adjustments. My bicycling background does seem to really help with being seen etc. I also grasped all of motofools picture diagrams on where to be in traffic and seem to be doing good so far.


I am sure I forgot a ton of stuff but really want to get this off the ground

[chemist]

4/1/15-

So i had major numbness and sore arms after the MSF course and first couple of days on the ninja. Once I focused on relaxing and squeezing my legs around the tank things have gotten a lot better!

Yesterday, I was looking at some diagrams and even with the upright position of the ninja, it seemed that best wrist angle and weight was done by leaning slightly forward. Great news for me actually as I am more comfortable in an aggressive stance from bicycle racing.

Commuted this morning, again staying relaxed but with a slight lean so that my head was pretty much over windshield and I had to look down quite a bit to see dash. I am 6'1" so tall as it is.

Wow! Major improvement in handling! I can dodge potholes and countersteer a bit quicker and really like the new position. That being said, my arms look a bit goofy tucked under my chest because of my height. I really want to get some clipons(woodcraft) to go with my adjustable lever idea but I am trying to keep things as stock as possible for as long as possible.

[adouglas]

Cool... sounds like you've got your priorities straight re learning and safety.

A few things:

1) Yeah, relax. Move around on the bike. You should know this from your bike racing. You don't ever sit in just one position mile after mile, right?

2) Do not use the clutch to moderate speed. Bad habit, bad technique.

3) Don't be afraid of the highway. In many ways it is safer than back roads... no crossing traffic, more predictable behavior. Your bike is perfectly capable of going, and breaking, the speed limit. It will behave about like an economy car in terms of acceleration, so plan appropriately.

4) The party starts at about 9,000 rpm.... Seriously, these bikes love to rev and the power delivery is smoother at high rpm.

5) Just wait 'til summer... that gear will be plenty warm. Handy tip: use the tried-and-true swamp cooler method. Chances are you have a wicking base layer. Wet it before putting it on... evaporation will keep you nice and cool in the worst heat for quite a while. Naturally, this means carrying your work shirt in a pack, rather than wearing it. Easily done.

[chemist]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Cool... sounds like you've got your priorities straight re learning and safety.

A few things:

1) Yeah, relax. Move around on the bike. You should know this from your bike racing. You don't ever sit in just one position mile after mile, right?

2) Do not use the clutch to moderate speed. Bad habit, bad technique.

3) Don't be afraid of the highway. In many ways it is safer than back roads... no crossing traffic, more predictable behavior. Your bike is perfectly capable of going, and breaking, the speed limit. It will behave about like an economy car in terms of acceleration, so plan appropriately.

4) The party starts at about 9,000 rpm.... Seriously, these bikes love to rev and the power delivery is smoother at high rpm.

5) Just wait 'til summer... that gear will be plenty warm. Handy tip: use the tried-and-true swamp cooler method. Chances are you have a wicking base layer. Wet it before putting it on... evaporation will keep you nice and cool in the worst heat for quite a while. Naturally, this means carrying your work shirt in a pack, rather than wearing it. Easily done.

1) good call! I will work on moving around as the situation dictates.
2) Ok, no clutch modulation above 6mph I will just hope I get a bit more smooth around 15-22mph in 2nd gear with time.
3) I do plan on getting on the highway at some point. Barring the bosses approval
4) Yes, I have been a bit surprised when passing a few cars. I instinctively downshift to pass but it is amazing how fast I end up going with a little throttle at 9k...must be careful.

5) good notes thanks!!! my bicycling spandex knowledge is a bit inept in warm weather

[greenaero]

Looks like you are to a good start with taking a MSF course.
A few suggestions:
Avoid staring at your instruments for long periods of time, you need to be looking out for hazards and threats all the time. Learn your moto's shift points by sound and feel rather than obsessing about the RPM. With experience lots of us develop a "speed sense" so that just looking at scenery passing by you know your speed within 5 mph.
Take a quick peek at your gauges only when there are no threats ( cars, intersections, etc.) around. I routinely will press the cancel switch for my turn signals without looking at the gauges just in case I forgot after using them.
You are thinking and asking good questions, relax and enjoy your riding

[Motofool]

About gas jerkiness:
You could adjust the slack in the throttle cables to be close to zero for all positions of the handle bar.
Same for the sprocket cushion.
Try keeping index and middle fingers
on the brake so your wrist is more stable and smooth having that point of reference.

Learn all you can as fast as you can in the safer possible places.
Look for tips and books in the Riding Skills section.
Stay alert and curious !!!

[Bigballsofpaint]

Like Andy said, even though my opinion differs. i keep the RPMS ABOVE 6 or 7k at all times, theres just no power otherwise. do not be afriad to keep it at 9 or 10k rpm for miles on end, its fine. Its also way more fun.

Not that i have anything against my neighbors, but 6k rpm in your neighborhood shouldnt be anything to worry about. My ducati with termis or N1k running to 5 or 6k is a much different story, and even then i gotta do what i gotta do. Now unless its 5am or something then i see your point.

Lastly, dont worry MUCH about needing to rev match on a downshift. You have a slipper clutch. Dont drop 2 gears at 10k rpm and drop the clutch, but normal downshifting should be fine.

I dont typically look at my gauges anyway, at least not often enough for me to say wow i look at gauges too much. after a while you just kind of know by the sound of the bike

[chemist]

Originally Posted by greenaero

Looks like you are to a good start with taking a MSF course.
A few suggestions:
Avoid staring at your instruments for long periods of time, you need to be looking out for hazards and threats all the time. Learn your moto's shift points by sound and feel rather than obsessing about the RPM. With experience lots of us develop a "speed sense" so that just looking at scenery passing by you know your speed within 5 mph.
Take a quick peek at your gauges only when there are no threats ( cars, intersections, etc.) around. I routinely will press the cancel switch for my turn signals without looking at the gauges just in case I forgot after using them.
You are thinking and asking good questions, relax and enjoy your riding

Ok, this is going to sound really stupid but you really made my ride home fantastic! I had totally forgotten from the MSF course that their was a cancel switch instead I was just trying to flick it in the other direction,hince my troubles.
Man, that is so much easier and I was signalling like a pro Seriously kudos man! Again, this journal is already helping .

Originally Posted by Motofool

About gas jerkiness:
You could adjust the slack in the throttle cables to be close to zero for all positions of the handle bar.
Same for the sprocket cushion.
Try keeping index and middle fingers
on the brake so your wrist is more stable and smooth having that point of reference.

Learn all you can as fast as you can in the safer possible places.
Look for tips and books in the Riding Skills section.
Stay alert and curious !!!

Thanks @Motofool . So, I actually was a bit smoother if I was trying to get both fingers over the brake rather than one. Not sure why but I think having more of the grip wrapped around my palm allowed me to hold it better. Love the riding skills section and actually practiced a bit looking at a plane of view in front of me rather than drifting my eyes back and forth a bunch.

Going to hold off on tinkering with the cables as of now but I would love to get this thing off from the previous owner. Can i simply unbolt this guy?
Hopefully image attached

Originally Posted by Bigballsofpaint

Like Andy said, even though my opinion differs. i keep the RPMS ABOVE 6 or 7k at all times, theres just no power otherwise. do not be afriad to keep it at 9 or 10k rpm for miles on end, its fine. Its also way more fun.

Not that i have anything against my neighbors, but 6k rpm in your neighborhood shouldnt be anything to worry about. My ducati with termis or N1k running to 5 or 6k is a much different story, and even then i gotta do what i gotta do. Now unless its 5am or something then i see your point.

Lastly, dont worry MUCH about needing to rev match on a downshift. You have a slipper clutch. Dont drop 2 gears at 10k rpm and drop the clutch, but normal downshifting should be fine.

I dont typically look at my gauges anyway, at least not often enough for me to say wow i look at gauges too much. after a while you just kind of know by the sound of the bike

Thanks! Yes, I was trying a bit more yesterday to just "be with the traffic" or slightly in front of it. I did keep the revs higher and enjoyed it! Caught myself off guard once in 2nd gear doing ~30 and downshifted because i thought I was in 3rd Good ole slipper.





Ride home yesterday was good and most notes are in the comments above from it. It was a bit hotter yesterday and with all the stop and go I guess this whole perf leather bit can get hot. I was also able to avoid an accident yesterday which I felt pretty good about. Speed limit was 55mph and congested for 2 lane road. We were cresting a hill and I was at a safe following distance. Car 4 or 5 up most have signaled late to turn left over hill and had to stop due to traffic. Car in front of me had to veer right and brake hard. I had seen the brake lights initially so had a light press on front brake thinking it was just slowing. Looked for excape route and had planned on shooting to the left between oncoming traffic and car that veered right but managed to smoothly squeeze front and rear brake and stopped well in advance ~ a car length. I had recalled no cars behind me but I didnt stop and look in my rear after the fact to see if I was going to get creamed

Edit: No ride today. Highwinds and storm predicted.

Keeping the bike safe from my small kids in my garage is still a learning curve but I try to always put it on the rearstand and away from their bicycles.

[FreelancerMG]

Welcome and good to see that you are going about this in a safe and rational manner. Also, don't neglect the low speed stuff as that's usually the hardest thing for most riders. When going slow, dragging the rear brake a bit will help a lot in keeping the bike stable for example. Also THIS is where modulation of the clutch becomes important to control speed.

That thing on the throttle there from the previous owner is a throttle lock and is a mechanical cruise control. I'm assuming the previous owner did some long range riding and if you plan on doing any long duration riding, that will come in handy.

I ride with my first two fingers of both hands covering the levers and it's saved me many times around here where drivers tend to do crazy and unpredictable things.

[cadd]

Originally Posted by chemist

Bicycle racer(counter-steering comes pretty easy to me). I also broke my hip racing so I have a healthy fear

What did you race? Road I'm assuming since you were countersteering? I myself crashed big time in a CAT4 race years ago. I know the feeling!

Originally Posted by chemist

This gear is COLD!! Really makes me wonder how guys justify no gear in the heat. Under 55F and I have to use my bicycle knowledge and layer like hell with some wind gear.

Irrelevant. 55 degrees on a bicycle and 55 degrees on a motorcycle are 2 complete worlds. On a motorcycle, you better close up those perforations somehow.

On a bicycle, you can be wearing short and a long sleeve jersey and you'll be hot. Remember, we sweat like pigs on a bicycle....especially if we're riding hard. And that's with a cruising speed of 18mph on the flats? Not much wind at unless you're riding into a headwind.

[chemist]

Originally Posted by cadd

What did you race? Road I'm assuming since you were countersteering? I myself crashed big time in a CAT4 race years ago. I know the feeling!



Irrelevant. 55 degrees on a bicycle and 55 degrees on a motorcycle are 2 complete worlds. On a motorcycle, you better close up those perforations somehow.

On a bicycle, you can be wearing short and a long sleeve jersey and you'll be hot. Remember, we sweat like pigs on a bicycle....especially if we're riding hard. And that's with a cruising speed of 18mph on the flats? Not much wind at unless you're riding into a headwind.

Yeah, Road racing and crit races Cat3 but some good ole wrecks working my way up.

Yeah, layering has been a bit of a challenge without all of that sweat moving the legs. I do find a wind breaker under the perf leather has worked well and I also have thrown on a winter coat over the jacket which worked out. I am sure I will struggle with this more come november.

I can almost guarantee though that I will need heated grips. My hands are a weak point even when i was cycling.

You still ride/race?

[cadd]

Originally Posted by chemist

Yeah, Road racing and crit races Cat3 but some good ole wrecks working my way up.

Yeah, layering has been a bit of a challenge without all of that sweat moving the legs. I do find a wind breaker under the perf leather has worked well and I also have thrown on a winter coat over the jacket which worked out. I am sure I will struggle with this more come november.

I can almost guarantee though that I will need heated grips. My hands are a weak point even when i was cycling.

You still ride/race?

No, I don't race anymore. Too much damage to my knees from hill climbing interval trainings. I switched over to bicycle commuting. So, I just race other commuters who don't know we were racing

Here's a thread on bicycles. A lot of us here ride..

As for the cold/wind, unless looks are more important for you, you can always get these guards.



Gloves go a long way. I have Alpinestars Drystar gloves. They aren't too big or bulky. But they do offer much better rain/cold protection than your average gauntlets. I've worn them down to the 40s riding locally and my fingers aren't cold.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by chemist

........ I would love to get this thing off from the previous owner. Can i simply unbolt this guy?
Hopefully image attached
........

That looks like a "cruise control" for the throttle.
I don't know, but it seems that you could remove everything.

In my previous post I did not realize that you have a 300 cc, which has fuel injection.
There is a certain natural delay in the response of this system to wrist twist's inputs, compared to carburetors.

[chemist]

So, call it a blessing or call it a curse but it is a bit rare for me to get out on the weekends vince the "commuting" title. Beautiful weather all weekend but I was only able to get a short 28mile stint today on one of my favorite "bicycling" routes which involved quite a few twisties.

I am a bit bummed, keep in mind I am very hard on myself. I went out today and went through quite a few turns. Speed limit 45 so I was in second gear and usually above 10K rpm. One thing that I was thinking about today is that counter steering again for me is not really a big deal but I didn't ever really have to lean off the bike too much unless I was racing in rain. That being said, I find myself fighting the urge to "fall into" the turn with my body weight. I did focus on keeping one side of my butt cheek off the bike while turning in that direction but found my upper body wanting to counter balance the turn a bit.

I was also pretty tense. I noticed in the sharper turns that I was gripping the bars fairly hard.

Quibble number 2 is that I also really underestimate my breaking in traffic and turns. I constantly am going into a turn to slow or stopping at a red light WAY to early. Again, I would rather be this way than the opposite but this is a good documentation of where I am at now in my progression. As I down shift and brake, I find that I will almost always have to increase my speed to get to the stopped car in front of me as I underestimate how much force my brakes really have.

On a good note, I have always been good about laying on the throttle in a turn and maybe this helps from my auto-x days. I do feel a lot better once I know that my speed is acceptable even as I roll on the throttle through the turn and can feel the stability.

Turn signals are great! Shifting well and feeling confident-again a self check as I feel this might be a comfortable stage where I am comfortable on a bike but haven't yet practiced hard braking at 40+mph and hopefully don't get myself into traffic situations I can't handle.

Ordered twist of the wrist 2 for the second time. I think I cheaper out the first time and got some copy for cheap that will take a couple months to get here.

Finally, with me being home bound and playing with the kids, they did help me wash the bike!

Pics for you @Motofool

[chemist]

Originally Posted by cadd

No, I don't race anymore. Too much damage to my knees from hill climbing interval trainings. I switched over to bicycle commuting. So, I just race other commuters who don't know we were racing

Here's a thread on bicycles. A lot of us here ride..

As for the cold/wind, unless looks are more important for you, you can always get these guards.



Gloves go a long way. I have Alpinestars Drystar gloves. They aren't too big or bulky. But they do offer much better rain/cold protection than your average gauntlets. I've worn them down to the 40s riding locally and my fingers aren't cold.

Hit me up on questions RE bike commuting if you ever want it. I commuted 34miles one way for a few years off and on.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by chemist

........Speed limit 45 so I was in second gear and usually above 10K rpm. One thing that I was thinking about today is that counter steering again for me is not really a big deal but I didn't ever really have to lean off the bike too much unless I was racing in rain. That being said, I find myself fighting the urge to "fall into" the turn with my body weight. I did focus on keeping one side of my butt cheek off the bike while turning in that direction but found my upper body wanting to counter balance the turn a bit.

I was also pretty tense. I noticed in the sharper turns that I was gripping the bars fairly hard..........

Pics for you @Motofool

Above 10K rpm's at 45 mph is not the best combination for street riding; between 6K and 8K is more than adequate.
High rpm's induce excessive fuel consumption, wear of the engine and vibrations.
Leave those for when you need max torque/speed at your rear wheel.

There is absolutely no need for hanging off while riding in public roads, as your bike will not reach even 30 degrees of lean angle.

Rather, focus on riding with your eyes way ahead of the bike: your brain will register slower speeds and the bike will just follow the lines that your eyes draw a few seconds ahead.

While you are looking as far ahead as possible and eventually glancing at the mirrors (only when over a straight section of road), firmly anchor your knees and feet to the bike, keep your butt in line with the seat, support your upper body with the muscles of your torso and back, relax your arms and hold the handle bar as softly and relaxed as if each handle was a toothpaste tube.

Good looking bike !!!

[chemist]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Above 10K rpm's at 45 mph is not the best combination for street riding; between 6K and 8K is more than adequate.
High rpm's induce excessive fuel consumption, wear of the engine and vibrations.
Leave those for when you need max torque/speed at your rear wheel.

There is absolutely no need for hanging off while riding in public roads, as your bike will not reach even 30 degrees of lean angle.

Rather, focus on riding with your eyes way ahead of the bike: your brain will register slower speeds and the bike will just follow the lines that your eyes draw a few seconds ahead.

While you are looking as far ahead as possible and eventually glancing at the mirrors (only when over a straight section of road), firmly anchor your knees and feet to the bike, keep your butt in line with the seat, support your upper body with the muscles of your torso and back, relax your arms and hold the handle bar as softly and relaxed as if each handle was a toothpaste tube.

Good looking bike !!!

Thanks Motofool. I was actually hanging in second gear more or less to keep things simple. I knew I couldn't really speed in the straights above the speed limit and the turns are really sharp so I was dropping down to 25-30mph for them. Eventually, I do plan on 3rd for straights and downshifting but I was working my way into it

So, I guess, I wasn't really hanging off but I did shift my weight and butt from one side to the other. Even if that is a bad idea, I still find my upper body trying to counterbalance the turn which is frustrating. i am sure I will grasp this in time but it is a nice mental note and document for where I am now.

Squeezing with the legs I knew that...hmm I wonder if my brain was simply processing to many other variables and I simply forgot this one. I need to let go of the idea that I need to hold onto the handlebars so I dont fall in this turn I am sure that is what my subconscious was thinking.


So you wouldn't ever move a butt cheek to one side or the other on nice twisty/canyon road? Not needed? Unsafe?

[chemist]

Commuting in! Caught in the rain.

So, desperate to get out today and it got caught in some small drizzle with a 20% chance on the way home. No real biggie actually and I have been caught out in it before but I did notice a few things.


Firstly, the rain was infrequent enough that it was that danger zone where you really should pull over and wait for the oil/coolant to get removed. All that being said, it never really rained "enough" to where that slippery surface was going to go away. I was very thankfull that I stayed out of the middle of the road, Goodness! I have heard that oil/coolant etc leaks there but man in this rain it was pretty visible and obvious. I lost track of all of the oil/coolant/AC spills that I avoided.

Secondly, I wasn't really going fast enough to shake my head left or right to remove water droplets. Stuck in traffic, I found myself using my held gloves rubber wiper for my helmet which I have used in the fog before. Not bad but again, rain at low speeds for helmet vision really sucks...havent figured out an ideal solution yet...rain-x?

I know summer is coming but man- I am going to need some waterproof pants/leather pants sooner rather than later.

Only one incident this morning and I focused on being smooth and keeping my space as I commuted in with no issues and it was nice to see from just about everybody that I was given space.

Had a comercial van pull out from the side street and go to the far left lane immediately.I had my eye on him originally and was already as far over in the left lane and noticeable as possible. Not really a big deal, I veered a little around him and honked my horn as he got back in his lane.

Just didn't see me no sweat

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by chemist

So you wouldn't ever move a butt cheek to one side or the other on nice twisty/canyon road? Not needed? Unsafe?

Not really needed, but fun. What moving off the seat does is allow the bike to stand up straighter, which does three things. Namely, it allows the suspension to work better, it gives you a greater reserve of traction, and it gives you more ground clearance before hard parts start dragging. At street pace -- or even spirited canyon carving pace -- you're nowhere near the limits of any of these. Or you'd darned well better not be... this is stuff for the track.

(What I mean by "reserve of traction" is that traction is a limited resource. You use it to brake, corner and accelerate. Use all of it for cornering, and none is left to brake or accelerate. Touch the brakes at the limit of traction and bingo... skid. You'll find this in Twist of the Wrist II. PS: Get the video too.)

Personally I like to practice moving around because I also ride on the track and I never get any other chance to get those skills burned into muscle memory. But do I need to? Nope. I do have to say that it feels pretty silly riding around a corner at 15 mph behind a school bus with one cheek off the seat, but whatever.

Current thinking is that it's not only about your butt... it's about your whole body. Watch the MotoGP races this weekend and go to school... look very carefully at body positions. Yes they're moving their butts off the seat, but also their whole torso. You will actually see the smaller guys get their outside foot entirely off the peg from time to time. Freaks me out, that.

Think more about leading with your chin and your chest. Move your shoulders. You go where you look. Stay loose... that's another benefit of getting used to moving around on the seat: you can't really do it if you're tense and stiff.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by chemist

Thanks Motofool..........

So, I guess, I wasn't really hanging off but I did shift my weight and butt from one side to the other. Even if that is a bad idea, I still find my upper body trying to counterbalance the turn which is frustrating. i am sure I will grasp this in time but it is a nice mental note and document for where I am now.
............ I need to let go of the idea that I need to hold onto the handlebars so I dont fall in this turn .........

So you wouldn't ever move a butt cheek to one side or the other on nice twisty/canyon road? Not needed? Unsafe?

It is not a bad idea, but I recommend you working on creating more important habits first.
Learn emergency stops and swerves, both over a curve and over a straight, first; then learn to be smooth on your control inputs; then learn the feeling of your engine, transmission and tires.
There is always time to learn to go faster; sadly, you may need to stop or to swerve faster before you have a chance to become proficient at it.

Your head and upper body are heavier than your butt.
If the idea of keeping your body aligned with the bike does not appeal to you, try leaning your upper body and head only towards the interior of the turn, followed by a push forward on the handle of the same side.

That creates a good habit that could save your life when an emergency happens.
Please, read and practice this:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114372

You cannot fall from the bike while leaned because combined force formed by gravity plus centripetal accelerations is pulling down in an angle and the bike and you are aligned and in balance with that force.
Think of the handle bar as a hand rest, not as a grabbing bar.

Move a butt cheek to one side? ............ I am never in a hurry and I am too old for those fancy techniques.
I have wasted much time in my long life; hence, saving a few minutes from point A to B does not make sense anymore.
Flowing like water through a nice twisty/canyon road, while watching the picture, is way more important to me.

[chemist]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Not really needed, but fun. What moving off the seat does is allow the bike to stand up straighter, which does three things. Namely, it allows the suspension to work better, it gives you a greater reserve of traction, and it gives you more ground clearance before hard parts start dragging. At street pace -- or even spirited canyon carving pace -- you're nowhere near the limits of any of these. Or you'd darned well better not be... this is stuff for the track.

(What I mean by "reserve of traction" is that traction is a limited resource. You use it to brake, corner and accelerate. Use all of it for cornering, and none is left to brake or accelerate. Touch the brakes at the limit of traction and bingo... skid. You'll find this in Twist of the Wrist II. PS: Get the video too.)

Personally I like to practice moving around because I also ride on the track and I never get any other chance to get those skills burned into muscle memory. But do I need to? Nope. I do have to say that it feels pretty silly riding around a corner at 15 mph behind a school bus with one cheek off the seat, but whatever.

Current thinking is that it's not only about your butt... it's about your whole body. Watch the MotoGP races this weekend and go to school... look very carefully at body positions. Yes they're moving their butts off the seat, but also their whole torso. You will actually see the smaller guys get their outside foot entirely off the peg from time to time. Freaks me out, that.

Think more about leading with your chin and your chest. Move your shoulders. You go where you look. Stay loose... that's another benefit of getting used to moving around on the seat: you can't really do it if you're tense and stiff.

Yea, I was watching a few old clips of motoGP and saw them taking a foot of the peg. Now it looks like a need to get the motoGP subscription to watch it. Twist of the Wrist actually arrived yesterday
One thing that I had a question on actually was answered( i kind of searched for it in the book).

On my ride home yesterday, I was shifting my butt back untill I hit the rear seat and I found that I was able to rest my legs better and also my arms because I was able to "drive" my legs into the tank better and use the legs better. Now at cruising speed it felt a little weird so like you said, I will probably need to shift my weight around to dictate what I am doing etc.
Weird though as MSF always had me hugging the tank and in close.

Originally Posted by Motofool

It is not a bad idea, but I recommend you working on creating more important habits first.
Learn emergency stops and swerves, both over a curve and over a straight, first; then learn to be smooth on your control inputs; then learn the feeling of your engine, transmission and tires.
There is always time to learn to go faster; sadly, you may need to stop or to swerve faster before you have a chance to become proficient at it.

Your head and upper body are heavier than your butt.
If the idea of keeping your body aligned with the bike does not appeal to you, try leaning your upper body and head only towards the interior of the turn, followed by a push forward on the handle of the same side.

That creates a good habit that could save your life when an emergency happens.
Please, read and practice this:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114372

You cannot fall from the bike while leaned because combined force formed by gravity plus centripetal accelerations is pulling down in an angle and the bike and you are aligned and in balance with that force.
Think of the handle bar as a hand rest, not as a grabbing bar.

Move a butt cheek to one side? ............ I am never in a hurry and I am too old for those fancy techniques.
I have wasted much time in my long life; hence, saving a few minutes from point A to B does not make sense anymore.
Flowing like water through a nice twisty/canyon road, while watching the picture, is way more important to me.

Thanks Motofool! You actually gave me a good mental/headcheck. I really am diving in too fast mentally. MotoGP,twist of the wrist etc. all good things but I went out last weekend to dive through turns when I should be practicing emergency braking and swerving. I did look into the experienced riders course this morning through MSF and at $105 bucks its really a good deal. Looks like they want 6 months experience though? Granted by the time the class starts in april I will probably have will over 2000miles but only 3 months riding so I may just ignore the whole 6 month experience bit.

I have lots of potholes and man covers that I can work on- looking into my escape route with chest and head and than countersteering to avoid them! Hopefully I don't get pulled over by the po po like some of the others

No riding today weather is decent but kiddos to pickup

edit: more books to pick up it seems- Proficient motorcycling-David Hough

[adouglas]

TOTW is fundamentally about the track, but with skills that definitely do translate. About riding fast.

Proficient Motorcycling is for the street... covers survival strategies, etc. Right where you are now. Definitely get a copy.


By the way, one of the things that bugs me about TOTW 2 is Code's love of Lists of Things. The main one is survival reactions, which he assigns numbers to, then refers to throughout the book by number as if you're going to freakin' remember them. Sheesh.

Here's a handy cheat sheet for you. I actually typed the thing up and made a laminated bookmark so I wouldn't have to go hunting

Survival Reactions

1. Rolling off the gas.

2. Tightening on the bars.

3. Narrowed and frantically hunting field of view.

4. Fixed attention (aka target fixation).

5. Steering in the direction of the fixed attention.

6. No steering (frozen on the bars) or ineffective (not quick enough or too early) steering

7. Braking errors (both over- and under-braking)

[chemist]

Originally Posted by adouglas

TOTW is fundamentally about the track, but with skills that definitely do translate. About riding fast.

Proficient Motorcycling is for the street... covers survival strategies, etc. Right where you are now. Definitely get a copy.


By the way, one of the things that bugs me about TOTW 2 is Code's love of Lists of Things. The main one is survival reactions, which he assigns numbers to, then refers to throughout the book by number as if you're going to freakin' remember them. Sheesh.

Here's a handy cheat sheet for you. I actually typed the thing up and made a laminated bookmark so I wouldn't have to go hunting

Survival Reactions

1. Rolling off the gas.

2. Tightening on the bars.

3. Narrowed and frantically hunting field of view.

4. Fixed attention (aka target fixation).

5. Steering in the direction of the fixed attention.

6. No steering (frozen on the bars) or ineffective (not quick enough or too early) steering

7. Braking errors (both over- and under-braking)

Sweet! Thanks for the list and that is a good idea. I will print that and laminate it here at work to take home

Ordered Proficient Motorcycling

I am also looking at ed bargy school as it is close and looks to be about $400
http://edbargy.com/Racing-School.htm
I may try and do one of the later dates though as I think I need a bit more riding time.
than again, riding up to ohio and doing an event in @csmith12 area seems neat too.

I do eventually want to track a bit but I need to watch myself on jumping into things too quickly. Street safety first as I am a commuter

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by chemist

@csmith12 area seems neat too.

Yep! These roads bring in riders from many miles/states around. You can pick your poison too. Want tight twisties? 3-5 miles from my house. Want long fast sweepers? 11 miles from my house. Want to see some covered bridges? About 15 miles away. How bout a long medium skill ride that follows the river and goes through little river towns with easier twisties in between? Get your bag ready for a solid day of riding and a long rest stop in Rabbit Hash KY, we will pet the Mayor. Yea, I said pet. I literally have to go over the river and through the woods to get to gramma's house.

Worth a stop if you are in the area anytime.

Keep up the good work, I have been watching this thread since the day you started it.

[cadd]

Originally Posted by chemist

Ordered Proficient Motorcycling

It was one of my favorite books on motorcycling. Very basic....but the way the author (David Hough or something like that) puts it together made it an easy read.

[csmith12]

/100% honesty...

I have no clue why I feel the need to link this vid here, but I do...

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by chemist

........... I have lots of potholes and man covers that I can work on- looking into my escape route with chest and head and than countersteering to avoid them! Hopefully I don't get pulled over by the po po like some of the others
......
edit: more books to pick up it seems- Proficient motorcycling-David Hough

Whenever possible, choose a parking lot away from traffic for braking and swerving practices.
No traffic because there is always a chance of falling and all your concentration can be used for learning the maneuvers.

David Hough did also write this article about the importance of getting smarter about riding on public roads:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121405

Another good book for street survival, which also contains a more current translation of the results of the Hurt report, is "Ride hard, ride smart" by Pat Hahn.

https://198.50.222.41/forums/showthread.php?t=205589

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...he_Hurt_Report

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurt_Report

[chemist]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Whenever possible, choose a parking lot away from traffic for braking and swerving practices.
No traffic because there is always a chance of falling and all your concentration can be used for learning the maneuvers.

David Hough did also write this article about the importance of getting smarter about riding on public roads:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121405

Another good book for street survival, which also contains a more current translation of the results of the Hurt report, is "Ride hard, ride smart" by Pat Hahn.

https://198.50.222.41/forums/showthread.php?t=205589

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...he_Hurt_Report

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurt_Report

Looks like these books were recommended as well-

"About the books: "... and More Proficient Motorcycling along with Nick Ienatsch's Sport Riding Techniques: How To Develop Real World Skills for Speed, Safety, and Confidence on the Street and Track are must haves for all street riders. " "Ride hard, ride smart" by Pat Hahn.

Time to find them on amazon

Your second link there doesn't seem to work for me. The one right before the hurt reports.

[chemist]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Yep! These roads bring in riders from many miles/states around. You can pick your poison too. Want tight twisties? 3-5 miles from my house. Want long fast sweepers? 11 miles from my house. Want to see some covered bridges? About 15 miles away. How bout a long medium skill ride that follows the river and goes through little river towns with easier twisties in between? Get your bag ready for a solid day of riding and a long rest stop in Rabbit Hash KY, we will pet the Mayor. Yea, I said pet. I literally have to go over the river and through the woods to get to gramma's house.

Worth a stop if you are in the area anytime.

Keep up the good work, I have been watching this thread since the day you started it.

I made a mental note to stop through some time One of my daughters goes to Shriners in Cinci for burn treatment quite a bit.

Originally Posted by csmith12

/100% honesty...

I have no clue why I feel the need to link this vid here, but I do...

Link to original page on YouTube.

I really appreciate the video! Being the research guy that I am I had the information but I did not realize that the helmet was still good if dropped from your bike seat. MSF course had always stayed dropped once no matter what and not good. Makes me a little less paranoid.

My helmet did feel a bit tight even for these standards when I first got it but now after some miles, it feels just right. I will stay mindful though of helmet movement at high speeds though if it happens and take note. Right now I can shake my head without movement from the helmet.



More thoughts soon to come guys- Been reading and digesting more information than I can handle No ride today

[chemist]

So it has been a somewhat slow workday and I thought I would share some of my thoughts as I progress through this journey at this exact stage of my adventure:

Firstly, figuring out where to better hone my skills in person post MSF is a CHALLENGE. Since csmith12 had recommended the experienced riders course and than some track school events as the order of progress let me explain my dilemma.

The MSF course was good for me but not great. Let me explain:

Friction zone- drive car manual albeit not the same this wouldn't have been to hard to figure out solo. I am going to lump general operation of the bike into this I.e. shifting, stopping etc.

Things like look where your going, don't drink and drive and counter-steering where things I already knew.

Things I learned. So hitting a dead possum or going over a wood plank in the road. Butt off seat and blip throttle. Nice trick that I learned.

It rained during my MSF on the test day. Instructors had prepped for this and we basically did a majority of the riding on day one and also arrived super early day 2 to finish up and than did class work. This was great in the sense of my knowing that if I only used my front brake in the rain that my back end would fishtail ask me how I know. However some of the stuff like TCLOC wasn't really ground into us right away as we were racing against time with the weather from the start. So bike first/lessons later.

Not really knocking the MSF course and I am REALLY glad that i did it and feel much more confident on the bike but I would't say it was a "game-changer"

OK, that was a bit long winded for me really just to say what more will be different in the advanced class in a parking lot at 30mph. I imagine some swerve techiniques,heavy braking and maybe some oil/slick tarmac conditions with maybe some trail braking technique.

I just wonder if I spent that time on a few weekends in a parking lot near me practicing the things that I am reading and learning online? Granted at $105 bucks I will probably still take the course but I also don't want to pick up bad habits from instructors. Like keeping my fingers off the brakes when riding.

Just spewing my mental game with such a light work day

Secondly- let's say I take the advanced riders course in May. Now what track rider program do I go to? I could fly to cali($$), I could drive to mid-ohio but locally looking at some of the schools. in the southeast, they want at least a year of riding experience and some have even suggested several track events before attending the school. Most places however do seem to have some form of coaching help and I just need to contact the track venue or showup and look into the C class.

I know, I am diving way in over my head at this point given that this kind of thing won't really happen tell end of summer hopefully but it is fun to look into. I am also sure that once I meet a few of the local riders and as the sun keeps coming out that word of mouth might be a bit more insightful but again just scanning the internet for newbie riders first track school can be a bit daunting.


Ride in to work tomorrow I hope and some swerving and braking skills this weekend!

[cadd]

I took my BRC2 course last year. It was pretty much useless for me as everything they taught was already taught in the BRC course. To make matters worse, we had a horrible student:instructor ratio. I believe the max is 6 students to 1 instructor? Well, we had exactly that amount. So, only one instructor. And it didn't help that he was almost 70 years old. Being older, he was physically slower. And he had to set up the course throughout the day by himself without anyone helping.

And to make matters worse, we had two cocky people in class....both of whom dropped their bikes. One was a kid in the military that came in class with a gixxer 750 and asked the instructor "if I gave you $20 bux, could you just sign the piece of paper so I can show my CO that I took this class?"

Link to original page on YouTube.

The other guy is a hipster from Brooklyn that rides a Vstrom 650 who claims he rides 25,000 miles a year across the country.

Link to original page on YouTube.



So, if you were to take an more advanced course, don't take the BRC2 class.

With that said.....I signed up for the ARC course for next week. But they just called me telling me that they had to cancel because they couldn't get two instructors. They were only able to get one instructor. So, I'm rescheduled for a June ARC class.

[cadd]

Interesting thing....a huge rat ran out onto the road while on my commute:

Link to original page on YouTube.

[csmith12]

I don't remember recommending the ERC (experienced rider course) but hey... I am human hahahahaha! I teach the MSF, so out of completeness I would put the ERC in the training progression lineup just the same. Thing is though... post MSF, you could and should swap them around any way that best fits your needs. Like me for example, straight from MSF to track. Some kids are too young for the MSF so they take straight from the dirt to the track with nothing in between, and so on and so forth. The MSF is a basic course to get you riding on public roads with an acceptable level of safety within the confines of the laws, speed limits and common road courtesies. Even the ERC contains the many of the same drills as the BRC, but a few that are different.

After the BRC (MSF), you must take stock in yourself and your goals. Pick a training path that will enable those goals. That path may not include the ERC. it may take you to the track with or without Total Control in between. I also think you might have the wrong idea about Novice track days vs track schools vs a race school. As I have posted many times before, a track day is an educational experience first, everything else is bonus. Even though it's very frowned upon, Mid-Ohio has taught at least one rider clutch control in the paddock. As a coach there, I have ridden at less than street speeds on the track because that was the rider's skill level at the time. It's NOT a problem at all, it's what we are there for.

A track day = Control riders watch all riders and offer help when only needed or asked. I think of these days as (practice what you know on your own)
A track school = Coaches set goals and provide instruction/drills to riders throughout the day, evaluation and help is always there when you need it
A race school = Coaches expect you to fully know how to ride and control yourself and the bike in close quarters with other riders. You will be evaluated to safely race the bike on track without the supervision of control riders/coaches. Rule infractions/questions/concerns are handled adhoc as they come up by race control.

Honestly though, a years worth of experience riding is about perfect. There is a quote in a movie that states something to this effect. "I have been riding for 20yrs and I really have had 1 year of experience 19 times."

Like you, when I first started looking into getting additional training, I thought there was a huge gap in between the BRC/ERC and track riding. But after coaching at the track, I realized there isn't. What is missing though, is a "common folk" affordable stepping stone between the BRC and a full on track day. Let's face it, $300-$400 for 2 hours/training of riding is pretty steep for the blue collar worker, not to mention gear requirements. And let's not forget, to many... the time and place to ride fast is not on the street. Which would explain why there isn't many training centers that will train you to do just that.

Besides... it's of no matter anyway. You did the BRC , your very next step could be at the track if you feel it will work for you. Just sign up for STT Novice school, come with me to Mid-Ohio and do their school, or go straight to the top with CSS. All novice level track school should be fully expecting you to not be going out there to set lap records, lean your bike over very far or touch a knee down. After all, you're a novice... and you're there to become less of a novice.

[adouglas]

I absolutely love it when people want to learn as much as they can. So big thumbs up on wanting to go for more training. Two big thumbs up for wanting to experience the track.

Having said that, consider pacing yourself just a bit. Right now you're in that hyper-alert, analyze-every-detail, every-ride-is-memorable stage. Awash in input. Everything matters, all the time. It's all fresh.

Are you ready to pile more on top of that? The track will teach you things you can never learn on the street. (I've been riding since 1987, and on my first track day I braked harder and leaned over further than I ever have in my life.) It's a huge rush of new input that's hard to keep straight -- even if you've got nearly a quarter century of riding behind you and are totally comfortable on the bike.

Here's how a new rider describes an incident:

"This morning I was on my commute, riding along a four-lane side road at 35 mph in the left lane, avoiding the dropped oil in the center of the lane and scanning four seconds ahead The weather was clear and dry. I was following the car ahead of me about eight car-lengths back, and there was no one behind me. A UPS truck pulled out of a parking lot on the right and cut straight over to the left lane. Fortunately I was able to brake in time to avoid hitting him, without locking my rear wheel."

Here's how a veteran rider describes the same incident:

"Yeah, a UPS guy tried to kill me this morning. Pulled out of a driveway and cut me off. Moron."



Here's my point. Right now you've got a million things flying through your head all the time and there may not be enough capacity to really get the most from advanced instruction. Eventually you're going to slow down the research and analysis. It's inevitable... you'll have read the books, watched the videos, ridden in all kinds of conditions, had more close calls, met more people... and you'll be thinking differently. Focusing more on the fine points instead of the basics. You'll have more mental bandwidth at your disposal.

There's something to be said for just going out and getting some quality seat time. Learning to walk before you run. Etc. etc.

If you're truly ready, definitely go for it! But I'd suggest doing an objective self-assessment about where you are in your progression first.

[chemist]

@cadd- appreciate the insight and from browsing the web I do tend to see quite a bit of the same stories.Granted, the internet is a bit bias as most people post with complaints just like trying to find out which motorcycle is the most reliable

@csmith12 and @adouglas - You guys are both %100 dead on here. csmith12 you had recommended the http://www.totalcontroltraining.net/...ule.html#April in your test me thread but NOT the ERC. This is what I get with information overload.

Self evaluation does tell me to slow down and much like a brand new rider at the MSF course I am only taking in probably 20% of what I am reading because it is just too much to process. adouglas, your evaluation of that incident is hilarious and so true Again, dead on with my evaluation- analysis paralysis, thanks.

So I am slowing down a bit and taking it all in. I plan to re-read all of this anyway. Again, thanks for breaking down the track day scenario's and you are right I had kind of in visioned turning at 90+mph but it is good to know the breakdown of track schools as you have it written! That is pretty hard to find(at least for a beginner) via online.

"Besides... it's of no matter anyway. You did the BRC , your very next step could be at the track if you feel it will work for you. Just sign up for STT Novice school, come with me to Mid-Ohio and do their school, or go straight to the top with CSS. All novice level track school should be fully expecting you to not be going out there to set lap records, lean your bike over very far or touch a knee down. After all, you're a novice... and you're there to become less of a novice. "
I need to drill this concept in!




Commute in today in the rain! Pretty excited actually as I had prepped for the rain and had a normal rain jacket over my leathers. Pant's are still an issue but I had a change of clothes in my backpack and the rain was hard enough that I wasn't too worried about residual oils etc being on the ground. I still road clear of the middle though. I also found out that my held gloves are actually good in the rain. The wiper on the index finger works alot better if you are swiping from left to right and not top to bottom
Focused on being relaxed and smooth breaking and throttle. I am getting a bit better at being relaxed and holding the bars like toothpaste. I noticed on the downhill sections that I am now further back in the seat with my knees more vertically into the forks which allows for less weight on the wrists which is awesome!!

Thanks all

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by adouglas

The party starts at about 9,000 rpm.... Seriously, these bikes love to rev and the power delivery is smoother at high rpm.

That's true, but I'd like to add that the ninja 300 does have a good amount of low end-mid range power compared to the N250. I love the feeling I get going WOT at around 6k, the bike just pulls you. Fun fun fun little bike.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by chemist

............Commute in today in the rain!............
Focused on being relaxed and smooth breaking and throttle. I am getting a bit better at being relaxed and holding the bars like toothpaste. I noticed on the downhill sections that I am now further back in the seat with my knees more vertically into the forks which allows for less weight on the wrists which is awesome!!

Thanks all

[alex.s]

the clutch is only for stopping.

[liberpolly]

For body positioning in turns, as another n00b, I found that "kissing the mirror" does everything I need to do at once, organically and effortlessly. It just happens to help to gently countersteer, gently roll on throttle during the turn, relax the elbows, hold the bike with your knees, move you body slightly toward the turn, and look into the turn, all at once.

Try it.

[chemist]

Proficient motorcycling arrived and at a good week too! Am I the only one getting flooded with storms all week

So friday, I took the long, scenic, twisty route home. I really like this route and it only adds about 20 minutes but I have about 10 miles of chaos traffic to go through to get there. I have gotten used to riding in traffic while covering the brake/clutch levers. Still keeping my eye out for adjustable levers but for now I am staying stock still for as long as possible.

For the scenic roads I had to goals:
Relax and push chest, head and eyes in direction of turn or in other words where I wanted to go. I really had an incredibly enjoyable time. I actually had to watch myself a bit more with speed. I have done this route before and been 5 to 10 miles an hour under the speed limit but as I relaxed on friday and just naturally rolled on the gas I found myself going quite a bit faster. Still not something I would get pulled over for but it was obvious that I was improving!!

I ended up not getting a chance at all to go out this weekend and practice braking and with the wet conditions this week it may get pushed off even further.

Finding myself looking at some rain suits! I would have rode today but for case had T-storms and wouldn't you know it it was basically light drizzle…GRRR