2005 Ninja 250Ex Rev/Idle problem.

[Spencerrides]

When I first come to a stop sign it will idle high at 2000 for 5-10 seconds(estimated) then drop after to the normal 1300-1100.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Spencerrides

Guys Please forgive how ignorant I am when it comes to motorcycles.

I Was adjusting the idle before the bike completely warmed up thinking it was running to low but when heated up it skyrocketed.

Yesterday I reset the idle screw completely and adjusted it now it working correctly... I think

When I stop accelerating or at stop sign it will idle at like 2000 for several seconds then eventually drop to 1300-1100.

Will keep updating

That's usually a sign of a lean mixture, or the throttle cable/mechanism could be hanging up. A vacuum leak around the carb boots (where they connect to the engine) can cause that as well. Check the clamps to make sure they are all tight.

If the caps are off of the idle mixture screws, I would check their setting. 2.5 turns out is a good start.

If they are not accessible, you can try running gas without ethanol if you can get it. Gas containing ethanol produces a leaner mixture.

Also as temps increase you will get a richer air/fuel ratio, so it may get better as the weather warms up.

[ducatiman]

carb synch could also be an issue

[Skullz]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Mo...bgn63A&vxp=mtr

Get that and oil every cable including the choke cable, and then see how everything goes, most times it can be traced back to a sticky cable as you have noticed that it began after using your choke.
This does not work on all problems, but it will eliminate ones that have to do with sticking cables.
I just use WD40 on the cables once a year.

[Ghostt]

Another excellent cable lube, and easier to use IMHO is bike aid dri slide


http://www.amazon.com/Bike-Dri-Slide.../dp/B001F2Y25G

http://www.drislide.com/products/dri...moly-lubricant




No matter which method you choose, remember all the cables, throttle, clutch, and choke cable, not only will it give smooth operation, extends cable life if done periodically.

[Spencerrides]

Originally Posted by jkv45

That's usually a sign of a lean mixture, or the throttle cable/mechanism could be hanging up. A vacuum leak around the carb boots (where they connect to the engine) can cause that as well. Check the clamps to make sure they are all tight.

Okay guys I have Check for a vacuum leak around the carb boots and found nothing using starter fluid. they also look like their in good condition and on pretty firm .

I felt the throttle cables around the engine and they felt dry so they probably need lubing.

But would that really be the issue that causing this it seems miniscule.

Now that I eliminated those two factors what do yall think the issue is?

Notes :

when I give the bike throttle the rpms will sometimes delay coming up .

I have been adjusting the engine idle not the idle mixture screw but I think I'm going to check the settings of it

[Skullz]

Lube the cables and see how it goes before moving on to something more involved.

Make sure you get plenty of fluid coming out the other end to make sure it got enough.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Spencerrides

(SNIP)
I have been adjusting the engine idle not the idle mixture screw but I think I'm going to check the settings of it

I would do that.

2.5 turns out is the baseline. Stock is less (leaner).

[ducatiman]

Your throttle instantly snaps back to closed position after release?
With just a bit of "freeplay" at the closed position? (thus allowing the throttle plates to close fully)

provided your carbs are otherwise ok, at 2.5 turns, throttle response should be effortless, require very little throttle opening to rev.

[Spencerrides]

Hey guys I think I have found the problem making video immediately, also thanks for everyone patience

[Spencerrides]

http://youtu.be/efSIuO1teko

Have we found the problem?!?

[allanoue]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Ghostt]

Looks like the airbox boots are not seated properly. There is no clamp, just those spring hoop things, it fits pretty snug, hence why it's a PITA to get those on

Just loosen up the carburetor to engine boot clamps, and just have to wiggle the carburetors into the airbox boots.



Also if your in the neighborhood, do this for future use.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Battery...r_carb_removal

[Spencerrides]

so this is the problem? or...?

[ducatiman]

you are missing retainer springs, 1 each side
SPRING,AIR FILTER DUCT
92144-1771
$5.91
2 needed
this is from ronayers.com
get them, install and see if any progress from there.

Right now the carbs are bypassing the factory designed air box pressures, and breathing unfiltered air besides....what of the long term effects?

I'd dissuade the use of starting fluid at all, it washes oil off the cylinder walls.
The bike started without it....discontinue that crap.

Keeping it idling at 3000 or 2000 is unnecessary and masking how it SHOULD be idling...turn it down to 1200...will it smoothly maintain idle? Will it readily start? Does it "crap out?" (technical term)

Sounds like your bike would benefit from a Pro done full service...valves, spark plugs, carb settings, etc.

And...a Francis Ford Coppola you are NOT...filmaking def NOT in your future.
LOL.

[ducatiman]

Originally Posted by Spencerrides

so this is the problem? or...?

the retainer springs ARE needed. You need to get them, install and evaluate from there.

Endlessly idling the bike at 3000, spraying start fluid...heating the bike up while immobile (it needs air through the radiator to cool) is not progress.

Springs are your next step, THEN turn the idle to where it should be and reevaluate. Posting a video will help, I'd think.

[Spencerrides]

How do you know when the Idle Mixture Screw is Closed/tightened all the way???

I don't want to mess up the needle while tightening it and they said be gentle?

@Ghostt @Motofool @RacinNinja @csmith12

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by Spencerrides

How do you know when the Idle Mixture Screw is Closed/tightened all the way???

I don't want to mess up the needle while tightening it and they said be gentle?

@Ghostt @Motofool @RacinNinja @csmith12

How do you know?

It won't turn any more.

Just don't reef on it like a 100lb gorilla and you'll be fine.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by Spencerrides

How do you know when the Idle Mixture Screw is Closed/tightened all the way???

I don't want to mess up the needle while tightening it and they said be gentle?

@Ghostt @Motofool @RacinNinja @csmith12

They just screw in until it takes force to turn. You will know when they seat. Its OK to use some force, but don't be a barbarian.

[Spencerrides]

Wow Thank You guys for the Quick response back to work

[ducatiman]

Originally Posted by Spencerrides

How do you know when the Idle Mixture Screw is Closed/tightened all the way???

I don't want to mess up the needle while tightening it and they said be gentle?

@Ghostt @Motofool @RacinNinja @csmith12

what exactly are you doing in your carbs? and who is "they"?

never mind, i wasn't asked.............

[Ghostt]

Your initial setting should be 3 full turns out from the bottom, remember just slightly tighten them, don't go all Conan on them.



Then warm it up, slowly turn 1 side pilot screw in until the rpms drop, then back out till RPM's peak (and no further)* Twist throttle...see how it reacts...tweak to taste.
Repeat on other side... test ride. You're looking for best throttle response and transition from just cracked to 1/4 throttle opening or so.*

Thats a quickie, 10 cent tutorial on setting pilot screws.**

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Do you just keep this on tab for everyone?

[Ghostt]

Yeah, it saves me time, I have a bunch of others, I just get tired of retyping it over and over and over ...... It's easier if I just paste it on the motel common asked questions.

[Spencerrides]

I Just cleaned my carbs and and the screws and idle mixture is leaking?

Whats going on? is it from not being tight enough or what is it?

[Ghostt]

Do a compression test.

I thought I'd save time by beating someone else to this.

But seriously did you replace the o-rings, bowl gaskets? Any consumables?

Dude save yourself aggravation and time and send the carburetors to @ducatiman, otherwise this thread is going to get a lot longer.

[Spencerrides]

how do you do a compression test?


I didn't replace anything besides a screw on the outside cover

[allanoue]

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75324
http://www.wikihow.com/Do-a-Compression-Test

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Spencerrides]

@ducatiman Check this out

Link to original page on YouTube.



Also my part came im guessing you just connect the spring to itself on airbox boot
@RacinNinja please delete previous video I remade it

[InvisiBill]

Post the link to the carb cleaning video you referenced. It'll give us a better idea of what was and wasn't done. http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php...uretor_Refresh is for the slightly different carb model used on the 500, but you should have done basically those same steps.

The leak is coming from the bowl seam. This indicates a problem with the O-ring. It could be damaged, but it's likely old and worn. That also is a clue that other rubber parts, like the float needles, are worn and need to be replaced too. The rubber parts degrade over time and need to be replaced, simple as that.

Did you just use the bottle of liquid SeaFoam? The aerosol spray carb cleaner frequently doesn't have enough pressure to ensure all the little passages are clean. Actual compressed air is recommended. If you just poured liquid into it, I doubt it did much of anything.

Also, Sea Foam is a fuel treatment, not carb cleaner. For cleaning up gummed carbs, they suggest up to a 1:1 ratio and letting it sit in the carbs for up to 3 days. It takes a lot of Sea Foam to actually clean things up.

[Spencerrides]

Hey where are the o-rings located?
Under the idle mixture screw???

I didn't touch the float or float needle at all but I put seafoam their.

It honestly didn't need cleaning non of jets were clogged and interior looked clean here's the video

I didn't tighten the float bowl to the carb that type could that be a possibility?

Link to original page on YouTube.

[ducatiman]

"@ducatiman Check this out"

hey, I guess I'm part of the in crowd again, thanks

bowl o-rings are in channels at the top of the...ummm, bowls.... seals where the bowl surface meets the carb surface.

They are consumable...they flatten, harden, corrode or just plain leak, especially when disturbed (as in removed) Hence a forward thinking idea to have new ones in hand prior to tearing into the carbs.

Take a look at my Custom Carb service thread, there's pics of bowls, orings...all sorts of good stuff. You'll see them there.

Gotta say...there is so much more than looking, then proclaiming "my carbs are clean!". A lotta little adjustments and stuff you can't see in them little precision instruments.

[InvisiBill]

I was referring to the O-rings on the float bowl. They seal it to the carb body. Although not fully tightening the screws could also allow it to leak, in the same way that leaving anything loose can allow leaks.

I'm not too impressed with that video. He skipped a lot of stuff... It's a very basic cleaning of the carb body and jets, and that's about it. If your carbs aren't very dirty it might be acceptable, but you don't really know how dirty it is until you really dig into it. The stuff you can't see is where the problems usually come from.

The pilot screw O-rings are easily damaged. Leaving them down in the hole was a bad idea. He didn't take the needle out of the slide or the main jet out of the holder. He didn't replace any of the consumable rubber parts.

This carb cleaning is the equivalent of saying you washed your bike by just spraying it down with a garden hose. Again, look at the 500 Refresh link to see what all you should be doing. And even that isn't enough on extremely dirty carbs.

[ducatiman]

oh, THAT video...."warnish"

I wrote this, over the winter, while having a Guinness or 2 (only way I could endure it)

at 6:45 sprays carb cleaner into the venturis with diaphragms still assembled......OMG

6:30 misidentifies pilots as "main jets"

7:30 drilling the pilot caps with a float bowl removed and chamber exposed, alum scrap flyin around

9:00 removes a left behind big shard of aluminum from chamber (getting scary now) from his unprotected drilling at 7:30

9:23 aluminum chips visible over workplace....poor working conditions

9:40 his version of compressed air

10:45 visibly (unnecessarily) aggressive reaming of the pilot metering hole

11:11 was it optical illusion or was the pilot reamed extremely large? holy shite!

11:30 reassembling (without ever fully disassembling) no use compressed air anywhere, adjustable wrench.... "warnish"?

12:06 slams the pilot screw in without ever removing/inspecting or replacing the oring, spring or washer. Are they there to begin with? How does he *know*?

13:43 rips the diaphragms out with no care whatsoever (when they stick, this is a great way to tear them)

14:30 spraying cleaner again without full disassembly

14:50 reckless reassembling diaphragm into chamber still wet with carb cleaner...will they swell? Would you gamble on *your* carbs?

15:20 "there you go, the carb has been cleaned" NOT . And still laying them in the aluminum shard mess created earlier.

This is a bush league "tutorial".....very bad form, terrible methods, very poor work habits and has left SO MUCH undone.

It comes close to another ...the guy showing off his multitasking abilities by eating a slice of pizza and laying it near the carbs....this guy actually put the needle retainer in the slide UPSIDE DOWN and continued reassembly.

BLOODY AMATEURS

[Ghostt]

Beyond common problems...... comprehensive carb cleaning is not for everyone, there is much to go wrong in short order. We've seen many members endlessly chase their tails, break stuff, assemble and adjust stuff wrong.

With some of the fleet becoming old, the vast majority require much more than "cleaning". The potential for leakage must be addressed, any less attention is irresponsible, and yes, this may even require thowing money and parts at them (gasp). Consumables...carb innards are not forever items.

And certainly there is MORE... much more....to it than simply addressing the pilot jets while they are out and on the bench.

Please...you're screwing around with FUEL...if not absolutely sure of what you're doing...send them to someone who is.

[Spencerrides]

@InvisiBill

The Float O-Rings were Harden and flatten so I'm going to replace them, along with tightening the float bowl screws.

Is there any other reasons the Carbs could be leaking that I should be looking for or is this most likely the problem.

***The float bowl screws were tight but I'm going to tighten them a tad bit more*** I didn't want to strip the screws don't have the Japanese screw driver

[Spencerrides]

Should you leave the valve adjustments and carb sync adjustments to the professionals?
Or is this something that's not to difficult and you can do it yourself and it wont damage something major?

@Ghostt
I'm NOT doing either just asking.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by Spencerrides

@InvisiBill

The Float O-Rings were Harden and flatten so I'm going to replace them, along with tightening the float bowl screws.

Is there any other reasons the Carbs could be leaking that I should be looking for or is this most likely the problem.

Did you check out the rest of the parts?

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

The leak is coming from the bowl seam. This indicates a problem with the O-ring. It could be damaged, but it's likely old and worn. That also is a clue that other rubber parts, like the float needles, are worn and need to be replaced too. The rubber parts degrade over time and need to be replaced, simple as that.

From some of your posts, it sounds like the pilot screws are leaking too, so their O-rings are likely bad as well. You said you didn't touch the float needles, and those pretty frequently have problems (which results in overflows out the vent tube due to not stopping the flow of gas into the carbs).

If you're already in the carbs, and one consumable part is bad, you might as well replace all the consumables to avoid running into problems with those in the near future.

Originally Posted by Spencerrides

Should you leave the valve adjustments and carb sync adjustments to the professionals?
Or is this something that's not to difficult and you can do it yourself and it wont damage something major?


I'm NOT doing either just asking.

That depends on how much skill, time, and money you have. Some people have a hard time starting a motorcycle. Some people can rebuild an engine in their sleep.

My gut instinct says that if you have to ask, it's probably beyond you. Valve adjustments involve opening up the head and setting small clearances. If you manage to screw it up really bad, you could seriously damage your engine. Carb syncing is simply turning a screw to synchronize the vacuum levels between the two carbs. It only makes up for tiny differences between the two halves of the engine, not anything major. You can bench-sync the carbs with a feeler gauge while they're out of the bike. About the only way to screw up a vacuum carb sync is by using an incompressible/incombustible fluid, and managing to suck a bunch of it into the engine.

[Mohawk]

The problem is a fuelling "hang" issue, it can either be an air leak between the carb & the head, which is not likely. If the bike is reasonably new to you it could be the carb main needle. I had one a while ago that did exactly this, I bought it as a non runnings spares bike. When I cecked the carbs after checking everything else, it turned out that the PO had put the needle in above the spring base in the diaphram & every so often it would hang up & do exactly this. It was one needle in one carb, pop the carb tops & check !

YMMV

[Mohawk]

On another note, I finally diagnosed why mine won't run, with a basic quick carb clean, it will run everywhere except idle, I have a gunged up idle circuit so will attend to a proper clean this weekend