The whole ATGATT thing......... - Page 2

thurt88 · June 2nd, 2012, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liist

For my five-minute commute to school, I don't bother wearing all of my gear especially in the Florida summer. The speed limit is 30 and I don't ride like an asshole when I'm so exposed. Most of the day is spent walking around a very big campus.

I always have my helmet and gloves, and I'm wearing my new Alpinestars boots pretty frequently because they're so new and cool

I laughed at this

How does one ride like an asshole ?

drac · June 2nd, 2012, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liist

For my five-minute commute to school, I don't bother wearing all of my gear especially in the Florida summer. The speed limit is 30 and I don't ride like an asshole when I'm so exposed. Most of the day is spent walking around a very big campus.

I always have my helmet and gloves, and I'm wearing my new Alpinestars boots pretty frequently because they're so new and cool

I read a statistic years ago that said 90% of all motorcycle accidents happen within 5 minutes of your home.....Something to think about.

nautica · June 2nd, 2012, 04:58 AM

I think most accidents, car and motorcycle, happen within 10 miles of home. Must be that people are comfortable with the area and a little less aware.

But on the subject, someone shouldn't get mad because someone else doesn't choose to wear some gear. It in no way affects me and I don't look down on them because it's ultimately their choice, if they fall they should understand the consequences of what could happen. People on here just promote ATGATT because they either have been in an incident where it could've/did make a difference or they want to protect themselves better. I personally always wear my gear but I don't commute and only ride for leisure. And if you think it's too hot out for gear it's probably too hot to ride in general, because a t-shirt isn't going to make a difference in the real hot weather, it might actually make it worse for you.

And also, as someone said, you can die from road rash, my uncle almost did. My uncle had an accident many years ago where he lowsided at a decent rate of speed and had no gear on, I don't even think a helmet. Anyway, he ended up getting road rash on every part of his body except on his rear. The paramedics also said he died on scene twice and they somehow brought him back. He spent a lot of time in the hospital and needed skin grafts and by the grace of god somehow survived the whole incident. That accident stuck in my mind when the time came to get a bike and gear and that's why I'm ATGATT, plus I want to minimize every risk I can so I can see my loved ones again in good health.

Boom King · June 2nd, 2012, 09:16 AM

The whole ATGATT thing. I just look at the general demographics of this forum and people who buy the 250R. A lot are younger riders who are entering the world of motorcycling for the first time. Pushing ATGATT on a rider who's been in the game for a long time might be a futile exercise. However, for the newer rider, it's a message that this is the accepted norm or promoted behaviour among the riding community and not what you always see on YouTube or Fast and Furious movies.

Choosing gear is a personal choice obviously. Unfortunately for those that ride in t-shirts and shorts, there's a social stigma attached to that behaviour; whether rightly or wrongly. Through education and a bit of well intentioned peer pressure, it is hoped that newer riders pick up on the message and make the informed personal decision. We all want each other to ride and arrive home safe but it's not like you can ride around in a tank top and expect other riders to comment on how great your biceps look.

I agree that the squid thing goes over the top sometimes but it comes down to the fact that with ATGATT, it's more about the concern with injured bones and limbs rather than injured feelings and egos. Sure, there might be some harsh words said but it's nothing compared to the harsh pavement.

Avenged7Fold · June 2nd, 2012, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nautica

But on the subject, someone shouldn't get mad because someone else doesn't choose to wear some gear. It in no way affects me and I don't look down on them because it's ultimately their choice, if they fall they should understand the consequences of what could happen.

But you're not thinking about the big picture. It might not affect YOU in specific, but it affects others. Imagine you promoting ATGATT and saving a kid from having road rash and potentially getting a lot less hurt that he would had with gear. You are saving the family from that pain and suffering when they see their kid or whomever in pain.

You can only tell them so many times thought. Going around preaching ATGATT to a friend who will not adapt to it is only wasting your time and annoying everyone else. If they don't want to listen, let them learn the hard way.

nautica · June 2nd, 2012, 12:54 PM

That was my point. I'm not saying don't try and promote ATGATT, of course you should, but if they don't listen there isn't much more you can do so let them do what they want. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

thurt88 · June 2nd, 2012, 01:04 PM

Agreed. Personal choice.

I can't see me riding in full racing leathers and boots every time I go out.

Avenged7Fold · June 2nd, 2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurt88

Agreed. Personal choice.

I can't see me riding in full racing leathers and boots every time I go out.

Same, but I still do the helmet/gloves and regular jeans/long sleeve combo when I can. And hi top shoes. They might not help me, but at least I get the sense of trying rather than wearing shorts, no shirt, and flip flops.

sky20nyc · June 10th, 2012, 07:09 PM

I've been riding about a year now. For the first few months, I only wore helmet, jacket and cheap mesh gloves along with jeans and sneakers. As the weather got colder, I found myself needing overpants, warmer gloves (got leather winter gloves) and warmer shoes (got MC boots) if i was going to ride though fall/early winter.

January 1st of this year was oddly warm for Albany NY (about 45-50) so I decided to go for a long ride. It started raining, so I put on my overpants over my jeans. Not 2 miles from the end of a 70 mile ride, a driver fails to notice me and makes a left turn right into me. I don't remember the impact, but according to witnesses, it looked really bad. I slid at least 50 feet and my bike even further.

Surprisingly, I got up quickly... No pain, nothing broken (expect my 1st bike which was totaled

), no blood, no rash. Nothing. The man who hit me came running, asking if I was OK. I told him I was fine, the gear did it's job.

Since then, I'm ATGATT, even when it's HOT. If it hadn't started to rain, and I hadn't put on my overpants, then my right leg would have been torn up during that crash and I doubt my mesh gloves would have provided much protection. Instead, only my gear was scuffed up..

Jiggles · June 10th, 2012, 07:48 PM

ATGATT

Thanks for unignore

psych0hans · June 10th, 2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky20nyc

I've been riding about a year now. For the first few months, I only wore helmet, jacket and cheap mesh gloves along with jeans and sneakers. As the weather got colder, I found myself needing overpants, warmer gloves (got leather winter gloves) and warmer shoes (got MC boots) if i was going to ride though fall/early winter.

January 1st of this year was oddly warm for Albany NY (about 45-50) so I decided to go for a long ride. It started raining, so I put on my overpants over my jeans. Not 2 miles from the end of a 70 mile ride, a driver fails to notice me and makes a left turn right into me. I don't remember the impact, but according to witnesses, it looked really bad. I slid at least 50 feet and my bike even further.

Surprisingly, I got up quickly... No pain, nothing broken (expect my 1st bike which was totaled

), no blood, no rash. Nothing. The man who hit me came running, asking if I was OK. I told him I was fine, the gear did it's job.

Since then, I'm ATGATT, even when it's HOT. If it hadn't started to rain, and I hadn't put on my overpants, then my right leg would have been torn up during that crash and I doubt my mesh gloves would have provided much protection. Instead, only my gear was scuffed up..

Hey anson, I'm glad you made it out ok... What bike are you riding these days? And which overpants were you wearing? Cheers!!!

Heed · June 10th, 2012, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac

I actually find it a little amusing. You choose to participate in an activity that is inherently dangerous, yet you rag on someone because they are doing it a LITTLE more dangerously than you. Look, I ride in all types of gear at all different times. Always a helmet and gloves but those are the only constants.

Driving a car is inherently dangerous. Should I not rag on people who drive and text?

AGATT vs. SGSOTT is "a little more dangerously"?

So, your logic then, is that picture A (a helmet and gloves, like you said) is just a little more dangerous than picture B (AGATT).

A).

B).

I'd hate to see a lot more dangerous.

gfloyd2002 · June 11th, 2012, 03:58 AM

Lots of opinions in here that are contrary to established study of the topic. While persons should be able to gauge risk and draw their own conclusions, it is important to judge the risk as it actually is and know what gear is getting you. A study on the impact of gear on hospitalization, which I've attached, found the following:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The George Institute for Global Health, The University of Sydney

Motorcyclists were significantly less likely to be admitted to hospital if they crashed wearing motorcycle jackets (21% lower chance), pants (51% lower chance), gloves (41% lower chance) - regardless of body armour (boots not disaggregated because all boots have body armour). When looking at body armour alone, there was a 23% lower risk of injury associated with motorcycle jackets, 45% for motorcycle gloves, 39% for motorcycle pants for leg injuries only and 45% by motorcycle boots.

Some conclusions I draw from this that differ from some opinions in this thread:

*Motorcycle crashes aren't just either decapitation or little scrapes. There is a fairly high incidence of hospitalization and serious injury that can be prevented by gear.
*There are many injuries to feet and legs, particularly. And these offer the most benefit from gear. If there is a weakness with current safety practices for motorcyclists, this is it.
*Wearing gear won't save you from all injury, but it will significantly reduce the risk AND the severity of injury.
*As an aside, this study found fairly high failure rates in cheap gear - the relative risk would have been even lower if all the gear had held up as it should have. As such, one of main conclusions was need for better gear standards and quality control. Take home for us is that wearing quality gear increases your chance of injury avoidance and severity reduction by even more than the reported results.

mrlmd · June 11th, 2012, 08:20 AM

These discussions go on forever and the basic fact is that even after being informed with all the facts to support the argument, you can't change somebody else's opinion once their mind is made up, for whatever reason, including "freedom" to choose, which has very little value in the discussion.
I just hope you non-ATTGATS have enough medical insurance coverage so that the rest of the ATTGATS and the general public don't have to pay for your lengthy hospitalization, multiple skin grafts, reconstructive surgery, broken bones, and extensive long-term rehab and unemployment.
Basically, it comes down to this - you take the risk, you pay the price. Make your own decision but don't obligate everyone else for your poor choice.

SPG · June 11th, 2012, 10:02 AM

Two minor points. Bear in mind that these come from my perspective as a 25+ year rider and an emergency first responder:

1- I recently responded to the home of a lady who had been in a car accident 6 years earlier. She had several operations to repair the damage and came out of the hospital with a couple of different infections including bloodborn MRSA. 3 weeks later I responder to her house where she had been found dead from complications secondary to her medical problems. She was about 30 and had been forced to move back in with her mother due to her medical condition. Her mother found her.

So no, it does not take decapitation or similar, immediate trauma to kill you from an accident. The skin is the largest organ of the body, and usually a partial thickness burn (or roadrash) over 40% of the body or greater, is enough to kill you.

2- In response to the comment that it makes no difference to you if someone wants to expose themselves to a greater risk of injury: I agree from a personal responsibility/freedom of choice perspective. However, the reality is that someone with major medical complications from a serious accident is unlikely to be able to pay for the hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of medical bills. These then are either covered by the taxpayers, the hospital, or the insurance companies. All of these end up costing the public as a whole, which means you and me individually.

I agree that legislating the requirement for helmets and other gear would be a bad thing, but I think that people personally deciding to protect their hide and being better citizens by reducing their burden on society is a good thing. Wear as much gear as you can stomach.

-Sean

rmorse · June 11th, 2012, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPG

Two minor points. Bear in mind that these come from my perspective as a 25+ year rider and an emergency first responder:

1- I recently responded to the home of a lady who had been in a car accident 6 years earlier. She had several operations to repair the damage and came out of the hospital with a couple of different infections including bloodborn MRSA. 3 weeks later I responder to her house where she had been found dead from complications secondary to her medical problems. She was about 30 and had been forced to move back in with her mother due to her medical condition. Her mother found her.

So no, it does not take decapitation or similar, immediate trauma to kill you from an accident. The skin is the largest organ of the body, and usually a partial thickness burn (or roadrash) over 40% of the body or greater, is enough to kill you.

-Sean

That's what I was saying earlier, but it got ignored lol

Miles_Prower · June 11th, 2012, 10:25 AM

My biggest issue with people not wearing gear is how they don't understand it affects MY pocket, and everyone else's too.
Just because they have insurance doesn't mean we are unaffected. When insurance companies have to pay out hundreds of thousands, many times in the millions, where does that money come from? Other people of course. How will insurance companies keep their profit margins up? Charge the others more money to recoup their losses.

Also another note. Going into combat is dangerous, is it not? If it was optional, would you go out in the field without kevlar and other gear because it was hot out? Probably not..

sky20nyc · June 11th, 2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psych0hans

Hey anson, I'm glad you made it out ok... What bike are you riding these days? And which overpants were you wearing? Cheers!!!

Hey Psych -
I moved up from a 2004 Ninja 250 to a candy thunder blue 2009 ninja 250

. When I crashed I was wearing Alpinestars Edge Drystar Pants. They kept me warm and dry during a winter rain, and kept me rash free during a slide!

Tenacious_Me · June 13th, 2012, 08:48 AM

Ok, so I'm a N00b, but during MSF our instructor talked about Brittany.
Hearing her story, is a huge reason why no matter where or how far or close I'm going, I'm putting on all of my gear. (Yes, the dude she was riding with was stupid

, but the point is the same)

http://www.rockthegear.org/index.php...oadrash_queen/

mrlmd · June 15th, 2012, 07:13 AM

Here's something in this morning's local newspaper - It's a little hard to read even when you blow it up but it's worth the effort.

Numbersix · June 15th, 2012, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Some conclusions I draw from this that differ from some opinions in this thread:

I like this paper's conclusion. While I don't care for government social control (aka targeted tax breaks, credits, etc.) it does make perfect sense for *private* insurers to reward people who mitigate their own risk.

leed · June 15th, 2012, 11:37 PM

I may just be jumping into a dead conversation here.. But I just wanted to say...

I don't look down on people who ride with less gear. I look down on people who ride with less gear and think they'll be okay when something goes wrong. Well, I should say I don't really even look down on them, I just worry about them. Yes. Motorcycles are dangerous by nature, and all (read: most) of us acknowledge that when we get on each and every time. The point of spending the money and wearing all the gear is to help protect us from our own mistakes as well as the mistakes of others. And as humans, we all make mistakes. Hell, even computers make mistakes (I have witnessed all green lights at an intersection).

If you choose not to wear gear because you don't think you will get hurt, there is something missing; and it's not just the gear. This is why people who ride in no gear get called stupid by many. To the same effect, we all are called idiots by reasonable people because, yes, motorcycling is a dangerous activity to participate in.

EsrTek · June 16th, 2012, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miles_Prower

My biggest issue with people not wearing gear is how they don't understand it affects MY pocket, and everyone else's too.
Just because they have insurance doesn't mean we are unaffected. When insurance companies have to pay out hundreds of thousands, many times in the millions, where does that money come from? Other people of course. How will insurance companies keep their profit margins up? Charge the others more money to recoup their losses.

I find this thinking to be the most BS!!!! By your logic Insurance rates would be up into the Millions per month if Insurance companies raised everyone else's rates each time the Ins co had to make any payouts to 're-coup their money'!!!
On average there are a lot of crashes daily...show us how those made YOUR Insurance go up ??? You can't because it WON'T... your insurance is affected by you alone!!
Next thing is your going to tell us where we decide to pee affects how your trees grow 45 states away!!

Alex · June 16th, 2012, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsrTek

I find this thinking to be the most BS!!!!

Think it through a little longer. Insurance companies set rates based on expected payouts. Each year they revamp rates, in accordance with the payouts that happened, in line with their expected growth plans, and within the various local/state/federal rules that somewhat limit rate increases depending on the cause. It's why some insurance companies are cheaper for a few years, and then they choose to price themselves out of that particular business if they find that the returns aren't worth it. (Allstate jumping in and out of the motorcycle coverage business the past few years, for example).

Of course someone's individual accident doesn't have a direct result on affecting another individual's rates immediately. But collectively, of course it does. That's what insurance truly is, is a large pool of people sharing risk.

Sinister · June 16th, 2012, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsrTek

I find this thinking to be the most BS!!!! By your logic Insurance rates would be up into the Millions per month if Insurance companies raised everyone else's rates each time the Ins co had to make any payouts to 're-coup their money'!!!
On average there are a lot of crashes daily...show us how those made YOUR Insurance go up ??? You can't because it WON'T... your insurance is affected by you alone!!
Next thing is your going to tell us where we decide to pee affects how your trees grow 45 states away!!

I'll have to go ahead and disagree with you there. An insurance company that doesn't place its rates in a place that will cause their income to exceed their operating expenses and payouts won't stay in business. Once they see their profits shrinking, they do what businesses do and try to reverse it. Then you get a letter like I got one time stating "because of a greater than expected amount of accidents and injuries we will be increasing insurance rates for all policy holders in PA. Sorry for your inconvenience"

EsrTek · June 16th, 2012, 06:55 PM

Maybe I miss-took his post, I thought at time he meant a more direct cause/effect scenario....of course I know that's the basis of how insurance companies work Alex.
To me, where they really make their money is off those who never make a claim, more so than increase rates of everyone to re-coup what they do pay-out.

Whiskey · June 17th, 2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miles_Prower

Also another note. Going into combat is dangerous, is it not? If it was optional, would you go out in the field without kevlar and other gear because it was hot out? Probably not..

I know a fair few reccie, FOs & snipers who prefer not to wear body armour, not because it's too hot, but because it restricts their movment & is fairly ineffective against rifle fire.

edxmon · June 17th, 2012, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiskey

I know a fair few reccie, FOs & snipers who prefer not to wear body armour, not because it's too hot, but because it restricts their movment & is fairly ineffective against rifle fire.

there's ALWAYS an exception to the rule, ALWAYS. Not sure what the purspose of these types of posts is.

Using protective gear has it's pros and cons. In the case of snipers, sure it restricts movement and is "ineffective" (not sure what is meant by this) against rifle fire. Are you willing to bet your life on assuming only adversaries with rifles are going to fire at you? Hell, almost ANY gear is ineffective against an IED, should we send our guys naked out there, just so they can have more free movement and be faster?

There is a banner on base, where I work: "We train the best, for the worst."
I take part of this is providing them with gear that will protect them for the widest range of situations as possible.

All gear is made to protect you in a specific situation. A helmet won't stop a bullet from going through your heart, a vest won't stop a bullet from going through your brain. Are you willing to bet your life that neither of those two will happen? Then sure, go ahead and leave the combat helmet and vest at home.

Now going back to motorcycle gear: Are you willing to bet you won't need those gloves, those boots or that jacket? I'm not. If you are, I hope you never lose that bet and I'll be happy you win every time you do.

I don't have riding pants, so for me RIGHT NOW, ATGATT means wearing all the gear I HAVE, not all the gear that is available for purchase, doing other wise would not only be "dumb" but also a waste of my money . Ride in whatever gear you want, it's your skin not mine, I'll still throw up at peace sign at you if I see you on the road.

P.S. Apologies for the military rant. I work for a DoD agency whose sole purpose is to insure total readiness and mission safety of our troops, and I take pride in that. To see that some individuals make complete waste of the work of my colleagues and I, pushes my buttons.

Miles_Prower · June 18th, 2012, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Of course someone's individual accident doesn't have a direct result on affecting another individual's rates immediately. But collectively, of course it does. That's what insurance truly is, is a large pool of people sharing risk.

Thanks for helping to explain what I was trying to get across!
And you too sinister!

I must not have had much time to type out my entire thought

Whiskey · June 18th, 2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edxmon

there's ALWAYS an exception to the rule, ALWAYS. Not sure what the purspose of these types of posts is.

Using protective gear has it's pros and cons. In the case of snipers, sure it restricts movement and is "ineffective" (not sure what is meant by this) against rifle fire. Are you willing to bet your life on assuming only adversaries with rifles are going to fire at you? Hell, almost ANY gear is ineffective against an IED, should we send our guys naked out there, just so they can have more free movement and be faster?

There is a banner on base, where I work: "We train the best, for the worst."
I take part of this is providing them with gear that will protect them for the widest range of situations as possible.

All gear is made to protect you in a specific situation. A helmet won't stop a bullet from going through your heart, a vest won't stop a bullet from going through your brain. Are you willing to bet your life that neither of those two will happen? Then sure, go ahead and leave the combat helmet and vest at home.

Now going back to motorcycle gear: Are you willing to bet you won't need those gloves, those boots or that jacket? I'm not. If you are, I hope you never lose that bet and I'll be happy you win every time you do.

I don't have riding pants, so for me RIGHT NOW, ATGATT means wearing all the gear I HAVE, not all the gear that is available for purchase, doing other wise would not only be "dumb" but also a waste of my money . Ride in whatever gear you want, it's your skin not mine, I'll still throw up at peace sign at you if I see you on the road.

P.S. Apologies for the military rant. I work for a DoD agency whose sole purpose is to insure total readiness and mission safety of our troops, and I take pride in that. To see that some individuals make complete waste of the work of my colleagues and I, pushes my buttons.

On the bike I wear €1600 worth of protective gear on a daily basis, the only part I even consider going without is the leather trousers (even then I wear a pair of jeans, and that's maybe 4-5% of the time)

You work for the US DoD, so how long is the recommended service life of a kevlar vest? AFAIK it's 5 years.

I worked in a forward OP. The kevlar vest that I was issued was almost 20 years old ( it was older than some of the lads in my unit), weighed about 9kg & made movement & shouldering my rifle more difficult. It was rated to stop a 9mm high pressure round, but wouldn't stop a 5.56, a 7.62x39 or higher powered round which our local terrorists & criminal gangs use.

I ditched it at any & every opportunity i got, to be more mobile & able to fire accurately if i had to.

edxmon · June 18th, 2012, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiskey

On the bike I wear €1600 worth of protective gear on a daily basis, the only part I even consider going without is the leather trousers (even then I wear a pair of jeans, and that's maybe 4-5% of the time)

You work for the US DoD, so how long is the recommended service life of a kevlar vest? AFAIK it's 5 years.

I worked in a forward OP. The kevlar vest that I was issued was almost 20 years old ( it was older than some of the lads in my unit), weighed about 9kg & made movement & shouldering my rifle more difficult. It was rated to stop a 9mm high pressure round, but wouldn't stop a 5.56, a 7.62x39 or higher powered round which our local terrorists & criminal gangs use.

I ditched it at any & every opportunity i got, to be more mobile & able to fire accurately if i had to.

So you are or WERE willing to bet with your life, I'm glad you never lost and that you are able to share your insight with us. I'm still not sure what the point of your post is. A 9mm in the right spot can kill, and again, I'm glad it never hit that spot on you when you decided to ditch that vest.

I'll wear whatever I can if it can reduce my risk even if it means discomfort. I rather be uncomfortable and slow than fast, dead, severely injured or maimed.

Whiskey · June 19th, 2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edxmon

So you are or WERE willing to bet with your life, I'm glad you never lost and that you are able to share your insight with us. I'm still not sure what the point of your post is. A 9mm in the right spot can kill, and again, I'm glad it never hit that spot on you when you decided to ditch that vest.

I'll wear whatever I can if it can reduce my risk even if it means discomfort. I rather be uncomfortable and slow than fast, dead, severely injured or maimed.

Someone asked if troops would go into combat situations without their flakker, I answered it & gave a couple of good reasons.

Being able to fire & move effectively was more important to me than lugging around 9kg extra weight that wouldn't stop a rifle round if I needed it to (at 20 years old the vest probably wouldn't have stopped a .22 never mind a 9mm.) & put my shooting way off.

sky20nyc · July 1st, 2012, 05:34 PM

Weather's been hot lately and I was wondering how many people I'd see wearing more than just a helmet. Not too many. Most sport bike riders are wearing t-shirts and jeans or shorts and sneakers. Others are rocking the half helmets and showing off their tats. But riders of one particular bike seem to practice ATGATT more than any of the others.

V-Strom riders. No matter how hot or where I am, the V-Strommers are wearing the full getup, often with full face white or hi-viz helmets and just as often with hi-viz jackets or vest. So what gives? Why do V-Strom riders as a group seem to value safety so much?

ninjamunky85 · July 1st, 2012, 09:54 PM

Quote:

V-Strom riders. No matter how hot or where I am, the V-Strommers are wearing the full getup, often with full face white or hi-viz helmets and just as often with hi-viz jackets or vest. So what gives? Why do V-Strom riders as a group seem to value safety so much?

I'm guessing that most V-Strom riders are older/ more experienced riders who don't care about looks and understand the consequences of an accident. Looking at gear ads for the adventure touring crowd you see a lot of hi-viz helmets and jackets.

As far as this thread goes, I don't look down on people so much who don't go ATGATT, I just worry for them. Some people seem to think that it doesn't matter, because any big accident on a motorcycle will be fatal. If you watch racing though, you will see some crazy accidents that the riders walk away from because they were wearing the gear.

In other words ATGATT, I have to much going on in my life. A wrecked bike would suck, but it won't keep me from being able to work or enjoy my life. Having a few broken bones and half of my skin gone would be a real inconvenience.

EsrTek · July 2nd, 2012, 05:28 AM

Tell ya what... Triple digit heat and Dainese leather = make me pass out while riding after 30 mins

ai4px · July 2nd, 2012, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac

I read a statistic years ago that said 90% of all motorcycle accidents happen within 5 minutes of your home.....Something to think about.

I heard that statistic too... so I moved!

KJohnson21 · July 4th, 2012, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsrTek

Tell ya what... Triple digit heat and Dainese leather = make me pass out while riding after 30 mins

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...3&postcount=31

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...5&postcount=18

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=48129

EsrTek · July 4th, 2012, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJohnson21

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...3&postcount=31

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...5&postcount=18

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=48129

Thanks, I already have the heat out gear from cycle gear on it's way

I don't like the idea of something that needs to be changed/soaked in just a few hours.

alex.s · July 4th, 2012, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsrTek

Thanks, I already have the heat out gear from cycle gear on it's way

I don't like the idea of something that needs to be changed/soaked in just a few hours.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Kristofferzero · July 7th, 2012, 03:31 PM

Guys friend runs head on into a van and only has bruises thanks to his gear.

Link to original page on YouTube.

I don't care anymore when I see squids though. I just laugh at them, they think I'm looking cause they're so cool, and we're both happy.

June 10th, 2012, 07:48 PM	#50
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	ATGATT Thanks for unignore __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

June 13th, 2012, 08:48 AM	#59
Tenacious_Me ninjette.org member Name: Linda Location: minneapolis Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r Posts: 24	I like my skin....what you do with yours is your choice. Ok, so I'm a N00b, but during MSF our instructor talked about Brittany. Hearing her story, is a huge reason why no matter where or how far or close I'm going, I'm putting on all of my gear. (Yes, the dude she was riding with was stupid, but the point is the same) http://www.rockthegear.org/index.php...oadrash_queen/

July 1st, 2012, 05:34 PM	#73
sky20nyc ninjette.org newbie Name: Allen Location: Troy NY Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 Posts: 6	V-strom protection Weather's been hot lately and I was wondering how many people I'd see wearing more than just a helmet. Not too many. Most sport bike riders are wearing t-shirts and jeans or shorts and sneakers. Others are rocking the half helmets and showing off their tats. But riders of one particular bike seem to practice ATGATT more than any of the others. V-Strom riders. No matter how hot or where I am, the V-Strommers are wearing the full getup, often with full face white or hi-viz helmets and just as often with hi-viz jackets or vest. So what gives? Why do V-Strom riders as a group seem to value safety so much?

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June 2nd, 2012, 04:58 AM	#43
nautica Gixxer Powered Name: Brett Location: OH Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 GSXR 600 Posts: 397	I think most accidents, car and motorcycle, happen within 10 miles of home. Must be that people are comfortable with the area and a little less aware. But on the subject, someone shouldn't get mad because someone else doesn't choose to wear some gear. It in no way affects me and I don't look down on them because it's ultimately their choice, if they fall they should understand the consequences of what could happen. People on here just promote ATGATT because they either have been in an incident where it could've/did make a difference or they want to protect themselves better. I personally always wear my gear but I don't commute and only ride for leisure. And if you think it's too hot out for gear it's probably too hot to ride in general, because a t-shirt isn't going to make a difference in the real hot weather, it might actually make it worse for you. And also, as someone said, you can die from road rash, my uncle almost did. My uncle had an accident many years ago where he lowsided at a decent rate of speed and had no gear on, I don't even think a helmet. Anyway, he ended up getting road rash on every part of his body except on his rear. The paramedics also said he died on scene twice and they somehow brought him back. He spent a lot of time in the hospital and needed skin grafts and by the grace of god somehow survived the whole incident. That accident stuck in my mind when the time came to get a bike and gear and that's why I'm ATGATT, plus I want to minimize every risk I can so I can see my loved ones again in good health.

June 2nd, 2012, 09:16 AM	#44
Boom King So, where's the reverse? Name: Anson Location: Ontario, Canada Join Date: Nov 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	The whole ATGATT thing. I just look at the general demographics of this forum and people who buy the 250R. A lot are younger riders who are entering the world of motorcycling for the first time. Pushing ATGATT on a rider who's been in the game for a long time might be a futile exercise. However, for the newer rider, it's a message that this is the accepted norm or promoted behaviour among the riding community and not what you always see on YouTube or Fast and Furious movies. Choosing gear is a personal choice obviously. Unfortunately for those that ride in t-shirts and shorts, there's a social stigma attached to that behaviour; whether rightly or wrongly. Through education and a bit of well intentioned peer pressure, it is hoped that newer riders pick up on the message and make the informed personal decision. We all want each other to ride and arrive home safe but it's not like you can ride around in a tank top and expect other riders to comment on how great your biceps look. I agree that the squid thing goes over the top sometimes but it comes down to the fact that with ATGATT, it's more about the concern with injured bones and limbs rather than injured feelings and egos. Sure, there might be some harsh words said but it's nothing compared to the harsh pavement.

June 2nd, 2012, 12:54 PM	#46
nautica Gixxer Powered Name: Brett Location: OH Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 GSXR 600 Posts: 397	That was my point. I'm not saying don't try and promote ATGATT, of course you should, but if they don't listen there isn't much more you can do so let them do what they want. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

June 2nd, 2012, 01:04 PM	#47
thurt88 ninjette.org guru Name: Tommy Location: Missouri Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Honda CRF250L, 2010 ninja 250r Posts: 413	Agreed. Personal choice. I can't see me riding in full racing leathers and boots every time I go out.

June 10th, 2012, 07:09 PM	#49
sky20nyc ninjette.org newbie Name: Allen Location: Troy NY Join Date: Mar 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 Posts: 6	I've been riding about a year now. For the first few months, I only wore helmet, jacket and cheap mesh gloves along with jeans and sneakers. As the weather got colder, I found myself needing overpants, warmer gloves (got leather winter gloves) and warmer shoes (got MC boots) if i was going to ride though fall/early winter. January 1st of this year was oddly warm for Albany NY (about 45-50) so I decided to go for a long ride. It started raining, so I put on my overpants over my jeans. Not 2 miles from the end of a 70 mile ride, a driver fails to notice me and makes a left turn right into me. I don't remember the impact, but according to witnesses, it looked really bad. I slid at least 50 feet and my bike even further. Surprisingly, I got up quickly... No pain, nothing broken (expect my 1st bike which was totaled ), no blood, no rash. Nothing. The man who hit me came running, asking if I was OK. I told him I was fine, the gear did it's job. Since then, I'm ATGATT, even when it's HOT. If it hadn't started to rain, and I hadn't put on my overpants, then my right leg would have been torn up during that crash and I doubt my mesh gloves would have provided much protection. Instead, only my gear was scuffed up..

June 11th, 2012, 08:20 AM	#54
mrlmd ninjette.org sage Name: Marc Location: Crawfordville, Florida Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Suzuki S50, 2006 Kawasaki Ninja EX250F, 1990 Honda PC800, 2000 Yamaha TW200 Posts: 848	These discussions go on forever and the basic fact is that even after being informed with all the facts to support the argument, you can't change somebody else's opinion once their mind is made up, for whatever reason, including "freedom" to choose, which has very little value in the discussion. I just hope you non-ATTGATS have enough medical insurance coverage so that the rest of the ATTGATS and the general public don't have to pay for your lengthy hospitalization, multiple skin grafts, reconstructive surgery, broken bones, and extensive long-term rehab and unemployment. Basically, it comes down to this - you take the risk, you pay the price. Make your own decision but don't obligate everyone else for your poor choice.

June 11th, 2012, 10:02 AM	#55
SPG ninjette.org member Name: Sean Location: Seattle Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 250 Ninjette Posts: 94	Two minor points. Bear in mind that these come from my perspective as a 25+ year rider and an emergency first responder: 1- I recently responded to the home of a lady who had been in a car accident 6 years earlier. She had several operations to repair the damage and came out of the hospital with a couple of different infections including bloodborn MRSA. 3 weeks later I responder to her house where she had been found dead from complications secondary to her medical problems. She was about 30 and had been forced to move back in with her mother due to her medical condition. Her mother found her. So no, it does not take decapitation or similar, immediate trauma to kill you from an accident. The skin is the largest organ of the body, and usually a partial thickness burn (or roadrash) over 40% of the body or greater, is enough to kill you. 2- In response to the comment that it makes no difference to you if someone wants to expose themselves to a greater risk of injury: I agree from a personal responsibility/freedom of choice perspective. However, the reality is that someone with major medical complications from a serious accident is unlikely to be able to pay for the hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of medical bills. These then are either covered by the taxpayers, the hospital, or the insurance companies. All of these end up costing the public as a whole, which means you and me individually. I agree that legislating the requirement for helmets and other gear would be a bad thing, but I think that people personally deciding to protect their hide and being better citizens by reducing their burden on society is a good thing. Wear as much gear as you can stomach. -Sean

June 11th, 2012, 10:25 AM	#57
Miles_Prower One Loyal Fox Name: Rahul Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250R (RIP), 2011 ZX-6R Posts: 869	My biggest issue with people not wearing gear is how they don't understand it affects MY pocket, and everyone else's too. Just because they have insurance doesn't mean we are unaffected. When insurance companies have to pay out hundreds of thousands, many times in the millions, where does that money come from? Other people of course. How will insurance companies keep their profit margins up? Charge the others more money to recoup their losses. Also another note. Going into combat is dangerous, is it not? If it was optional, would you go out in the field without kevlar and other gear because it was hot out? Probably not..

June 15th, 2012, 11:37 PM	#62
leed ninjette.org sage Name: David Location: Loves Park, IL Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): Time will tell Posts: 969	I may just be jumping into a dead conversation here.. But I just wanted to say... I don't look down on people who ride with less gear. I look down on people who ride with less gear and think they'll be okay when something goes wrong. Well, I should say I don't really even look down on them, I just worry about them. Yes. Motorcycles are dangerous by nature, and all (read: most) of us acknowledge that when we get on each and every time. The point of spending the money and wearing all the gear is to help protect us from our own mistakes as well as the mistakes of others. And as humans, we all make mistakes. Hell, even computers make mistakes (I have witnessed all green lights at an intersection). If you choose not to wear gear because you don't think you will get hurt, there is something missing; and it's not just the gear. This is why people who ride in no gear get called stupid by many. To the same effect, we all are called idiots by reasonable people because, yes, motorcycling is a dangerous activity to participate in.

June 16th, 2012, 06:55 PM	#66
EsrTek ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Eric Location: Murfreesboro, TN Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): '13 300 Posts: A lot.	Maybe I miss-took his post, I thought at time he meant a more direct cause/effect scenario....of course I know that's the basis of how insurance companies work Alex. To me, where they really make their money is off those who never make a claim, more so than increase rates of everyone to re-coup what they do pay-out.

July 2nd, 2012, 05:28 AM	#75
EsrTek ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Eric Location: Murfreesboro, TN Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): '13 300 Posts: A lot.	Tell ya what... Triple digit heat and Dainese leather = make me pass out while riding after 30 mins

July 7th, 2012, 03:31 PM	#80
Kristofferzero ninjette.org member Name: Kristoffer Location: San Jose Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 (sold) Posts: 110	Guys friend runs head on into a van and only has bruises thanks to his gear. Link to original page on YouTube. I don't care anymore when I see squids though. I just laugh at them, they think I'm looking cause they're so cool, and we're both happy.