Here's why you don't use the rear brake in a panic stop

[Jiggles]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Falcor]

Like you've said in your crash thread you would have been totally fine if you hadn't used rear, had ABS, and didn't get distracted for that little bit

Nice smile btw.

[cuong-nutz]

You walked away That's what happen when you lose focus.

[Trailerboy531]

dOOOOOOOOd.

Swerve. Panic stops when there are no other options. Not that I don't totally understand the heat of the moment getting to you.

[Cab305]

Wow, hope you are ok!

Pretty freaky, watch... during the time compression, you can see the clip on moving around!

[Joshorilla]

LOL

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Falcor

Like you've said in your crash thread you would have been totally fine if you hadn't used rear, had ABS, and didn't get distracted for that little bit

Nice smile btw.

Well, idk if I wouldn't have hit but once the rear started sliding I wasn't braking as hard as I could have

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

dOOOOOOOOd.

Swerve. Panic stops when there are no other options. Not that I don't totally understand the heat of the moment getting to you.

Swerve where though? Van in the left lane, moving cars in the right lane and car in front of me. Also, I didn't know what was in front of these cars stopping (turns out nothing) so splitting between the lanes could have been just as bad. I figured the best option was to brake.

[alex.s]

damnit sean. stop crashing

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Swerve where though? Van in the left lane, moving cars in the right lane and car in front of me. Also, I didn't know what was in front of these cars stopping (turns out nothing) so splitting between the lanes could have been just as bad. I figured the best option was to brake.

Obviously you ride over the car in front of you.

On a side note. I think you need to invest in one of these if you plan to keep jiggling your way into crashes.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Jiggles]

Why? All I got was a scratch

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by alex.s

damnit sean. stop crashing

It's fun though

[Falcor]

This time, plus you could get a pink one. Then we could call you Jiggly Puff .

[Alex]

I definitely wouldn't have swerved left, so swerving right would be the only choice. If I knew that there was a car to my right, or if I wasn't sure that it was somewhat clear, I wouldn't swerve into that lane either. I'd be worried that the Toyota in front freaks out and cuts into the middle lane anyway, so any swerve would have to be significantly into the other lane to gain enough potential clearance. Any car there, or approaching quickly, and it's a bad option.

As long as I had a awareness that there wasn't a vehicle directly behind me, I think I'd make the same decision to brake. Hindsight is 20/20, but it doesn't look like the Toyota was actually braking that hard. You came up on him so quickly because of exactly what you described; you locked the rear and for the last 50 - 75 feet scrubbed off very little speed as you were trying to keep the bike straight rather than concentrating on adding more and more front brake. Glad you're OK.

[dino74]

Glad you're ok! How's the bike? Bent forks?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Alex

I definitely wouldn't have swerved left, so swerving right would be the only choice. If I knew that there was a car to my right, or if I wasn't sure that it was somewhat clear, I wouldn't swerve into that lane either. I'd be worried that the Toyota in front freaks out and cuts into the middle lane anyway, so any swerve would have to be significantly into the other lane to gain enough potential clearance. Any car there, or approaching quickly, and it's a bad option.

As long as I had a awareness that there wasn't a vehicle directly behind me, I think I'd make the same decision to brake. Hindsight is 20/20, but it doesn't look like the Toyota was actually braking that hard. You came up on him so quickly because of exactly what you described; you locked the rear and for the last 50 - 75 feet scrubbed off very little speed as you were trying to keep the bike straight rather than concentrating on adding more and more front brake. Glad you're OK.

Yep exactly. I did briefly consider swerving to the left but then remembered the van so I stayed braking. Once the rear started to slide it was all over for me

Originally Posted by dino74

Glad you're ok! How's the bike? Bent forks?

Forks didn't look bent, the bike hit at an angle so it wasn't a dead on collision, I think frame damage is actually more likely. I'm going to have AAA drop it off at the dealer and let them worry about it. They'll be able to get me a new givi case too since my givi case ended up sliding across the freeway with me

[Joshorilla]

I can imagine your insurance will be a small fortune now?

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Well, idk if I wouldn't have hit but once the rear started sliding I wasn't braking as hard as I could have



Swerve where though? Van in the left lane, moving cars in the right lane and car in front of me. Also, I didn't know what was in front of these cars stopping (turns out nothing) so splitting between the lanes could have been just as bad. I figured the best option was to brake.

Hind sight being 20/20, you had just passed a vehicle to your right, you could have rolled on the throttle and headed into the lane to the right.


That being said, lane position was part of your problem here. I try to ride closer to the line, in the right hand part of the lane. If you had done that, you could have moved over into the lane splitting position while braking hard, since you don't need to swerve or turn hard at all to get there. Then, if you can't stop, you can split, and at a lower speed. Worst case scenario, you end up crashing the way you did, best case, you keep riding.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

Hind sight being 20/20, you had just passed a vehicle to your right, you could have rolled on the throttle and headed into the lane to the right.


That being said, lane position was part of your problem here. I try to ride closer to the line, in the right hand part of the lane. If you had done that, you could have moved over into the lane splitting position while braking hard, since you don't need to swerve or turn hard at all to get there. Then, if you can't stop, you can split, and at a lower speed. Worst case scenario, you end up crashing the way you did, best case, you keep riding.

Yea I usually do ride closer to the line since it makes me more visible to other cars and it has less crap than the middle portion.

What's that phrase about a bunch of little things to cause an accident? And the absence of just one would prevent the accident?
If the van hadn't gone left, if the sedan hadn't stopped, if I hadn't hit the rear, if I'd been in the right portion of my lane

[Trailerboy531]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Well, idk if I wouldn't have hit but once the rear started sliding I wasn't braking as hard as I could have



Swerve where though? Van in the left lane, moving cars in the right lane and car in front of me. Also, I didn't know what was in front of these cars stopping (turns out nothing) so splitting between the lanes could have been just as bad. I figured the best option was to brake.

Actually you had just moved past a car on your right before you hit the brakes which means 2 things. 1) It's open - there is a space for you to fit as you can see in the video and 2) you are moving faster than the traffic in that lane so you don't have to worry about being rear ended so long as you swerve and don't cut a lot of speed.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

Actually you had just moved past a car on your right before you hit the brakes which means 2 things. 1) It's open - there is a space for you to fit as you can see in the video and 2) you are moving faster than the traffic in that lane so you don't have to worry about being rear ended so long as you swerve and don't cut a lot of speed.

Damn, can I get a redo???

[Nemesis]

Silly noob! Next time just whacked the throttle, PIN IT, and jumped over the car.

[csmith12]

Damn yo, glad that turned out with just dmg to the bike and not you.

[KawiKid860]

It looks like it might have turned into a high side had you not hit the car so... not sure which would be preferable lol. Poor Ninja 1k. Glad you're okay though, bikes can be fixed and/or replaced. Or ridden around all beat up and ghetto. I think that the accelerating into the right lane would have been a great alternative, like everyone is saying, but since your first reaction was to brake that pretty much ruled anything else out.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Silly noob! Next time just whacked the throttle, PIN IT, and jumped over the car.

I suffer from 250 syndrome and forget I can do this

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

It looks like it might have turned into a high side had you not hit the car so... not sure which would be preferable lol. Poor Ninja 1k. Glad you're okay though, bikes can be fixed and/or replaced. Or ridden around all beat up and ghetto. I think that the accelerating into the right lane would have been a great alternative, like everyone is saying, but since your first reaction was to brake that pretty much ruled anything else out.

It was a highside lol

[Trailerboy531]

As long as you learn from the past then there may be many situations in the future that you can avoid. Cagers will always test your skills - those will be the re-do moments.

[Jiggles]

I need to practice panic stops some more. I think the reason I hit the rear is that I've been trying to use the rear more in low speed stuff. I used to never use the rear at all but lately I've been practicing low speed maneuvers and utilizing the rear. Sharper uturns and maintaining balance at really low speeds. Sort of like my subconscious brain went, hey I have this new tool lets use it now! Conscious brain, you ****ing idiot you just ****ed us!

[bdavison]

No, that's what happens when you LOCK up the rear.....using the rear , and locking it up are not the same thing.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by bdavison

No, that's what happens when you LOCK up the rear.....using the rear , and locking it up are not the same thing.

It is if you know what you're doing with the front. But if you have no idea how to use the front brake then you are correct and should be riding a Harley

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

Actually you had just moved past a car on your right before you hit the brakes which means 2 things. 1) It's open - there is a space for you to fit as you can see in the video and 2) you are moving faster than the traffic in that lane so you don't have to worry about being rear ended so long as you swerve and don't cut a lot of speed.

Passing a car does not ever mean that there is automatically enough space in front of it for you. Also, if the traffic in one lane is suddenly stopping too fast for you then there is a good chance that the very same thing could be happening in the next. That car he just passed may be using every bit of space available to stop in order to avoid doing the same thing Jiggles did and your suggestion is to jump right in between? Don't tell me you'd rather be in the middle of that!

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I suffer from 250 syndrome and forget I can do this

That's why the 250 makes a terrible starter bike.

[Jiggles]

Bike is totaled, there is a couple scratches on the frame.

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Bike is totaled, there is a couple scratches on the frame.

It'll buff out bro.

[Jiggles]

What bike should I destroy next?

[Falcor]

I know you like Kawis, but based on your comments about bikes and power bands and what you like maybe you should try out a Triumph Street Triple.

[Trailerboy531]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Passing a car does not ever mean that there is automatically enough space in front of it for you. Also, if the traffic in one lane is suddenly stopping too fast for you then there is a good chance that the very same thing could be happening in the next. That car he just passed may be using every bit of space available to stop in order to avoid doing the same thing Jiggles did and your suggestion is to jump right in between? Don't tell me you'd rather be in the middle of that!

Did you watch the video....and see any of that happening? I'd rather be swerving in to the right lane than braking and praying. In that specific situation, swerving was the right move.

[Trailerboy531]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

What bike should I destroy next?

Once you total a liter bike you have to move up to totaling cars bro.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

Once you total a liter bike you have to move up to totaling cars bro.

But I like my car

[tooblekain]

Wow...glad you're okay.

I watched the video and I actually have ran into situations exactly like yours a few times.

What I wouldve done differently was actually swerve right and go to the #2 lane to avoid and should get away unscathed...the danger at that point would have been if the Toyota would have swerved too.

Considering the situation and Im not sure how many miles youve logged on the bike you did okay and its good you're fine. THis is coming from someone that has probably close to if not more than 100,000 commuting miles on bikes.

Also, it looks like you could have stopped the bike a lot faster and sooner if you decided to not swerve to the other lane. However it can be hard to tell since it is a wide angle camera.

I think it would be a good idea to actually practice front brake threshold. I know Lee Parks does a school where you practice that and Keith Code's CSS has a bike where you can practice this drill. Believe it or not you can be hard on the front brakes and come to a stop pretty quick, but you need to be smooth.

EDIT: I watched the video a second time and timed the gap you had between the car in front of you and your bike...it looked like 3 seconds...plenty of time to come to a full stop.

[Z300]

LOL you got one cheeky little smile there mate

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

Did you watch the video....and see any of that happening? I'd rather be swerving in to the right lane than braking and praying. In that specific situation, swerving was the right move.

I did and I'm not going to load it again on my 200kbps throttled AT&T so-called "Unlimited" data plan when I already explained why any space in front might not matter. I didn't say that the space wasn't there but I did say why it would be a bad idea to go into that space as long as there was enough room for braking. If he did go into it there was a high likelihood that he would end up having to brake every bit as hard in that lane with the compounding factor of having just cut off a car that was doing the same thing and with suddenly less space to do it. That's a good recipe for getting squished between two cars, so why do that when there was still enough room to stop?