applying brake before releasing throttle?

[alex.s]

so let me ask you guys a question
i may sound like a stupid squid though
when you get on the brakes, coming into a slow corner from a fast straight, do you ever start braking before you let off the throttle? like not much just enough to compress the forks a little. and not for long just right before and just a little bit so when you let off the gas and get on the brake harder the nose dives less?

i started doing it on sunday and things felt smoother... but im scared im going to break my front loose or something right before getting on the brakes and tucking my front... :/

[Racer x]

Trail braking will stiffen the suspension as you turn.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by alex.s

so let me ask you guys a question
i may sound like a stupid squid though
when you get on the brakes, coming into a slow corner from a fast straight, do you ever start braking before you let off the throttle? like not much just enough to compress the forks a little. and not for long just right before and just a little bit so when you let off the gas and get on the brake harder the nose dives less?

i started doing it on sunday and things felt smoother... but im scared im going to break my front loose or something right before getting on the brakes and tucking my front... :/

I'm not crazy about the front brakes in a turn. Sometimes in sharp slow turns I will apply pressure to the rears just to keep the chain tight. I'm usually always on the throttle in a turn. I only use the fronts when I actually want to come to a stop.

Once I lost my rear tire on some sand while braking too hard while cornering. Since then, I only use just enough pressure for chain tightening. I don't see any advantage to routine braking with the fronts in a curve.

[Skippii]

I've got pretty long fingers but I still think it would be really awkward to use the lever with the throttle turned...Haven't really tried it, but I like my hand movements to be a nice smooth motion of letting off the throttle as I reach for the lever..
Posted via Mobile Device

[csmith12]

The point in time you're referencing is a throttle roll off for me. Seems to me that the added throttle at that time will only add to the compression force to the front suspension when hard front braking is applied setting entry speed, possibly pushing you out of the sweet mid-range zone. I think this is one of those areas where its different for everyone in terms of what works for them, bike setup, preloads, fork oil weight, tires and generally how aggressively a rider approaches a corner.

Please refer to the attached image where 2 orange lines identify the zone your question references. This is the throttle roll off just before braking/blipping setting corner entry speed. Complete the roll off quickly, but don't chop as it will not feel smooth.

The image also identifies another zone (2 blue lines). This is the area where I find myself rolling on the throttle with a VERY light touch of rear brakes still in effect. The only reason I do this is to smooth out the transition and not have a lurching affect in case of throttle control error or cush drive/chain slop. I also must add, I don't do this for every sharp corner. Also as you know, environmental, bike and rider conditions can move the lines around, so adjust to fit your needs.

** THESE TECHNIQUES ARE NOT FOR BEGINNERS, USE WITH CAUTION **

[coondog]

You're the guy everyone hated in high school! Great post!

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by coondog

You're the guy everyone hated in high school! Great post!

Hmm...not sure what this has anything to do with the thread. Personal vendetta...if so, keep it to PM.

[csmith12]

He was just joking around Nem, I got it.

Originally Posted by coondog

You're the guy everyone hated in high school! Great post!

I also saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to geico.

[alex.s]

not sure what coondogs problem is. i think some people misunderstood what i was saying.

thanks for the reply chris, i didnt think about using the rear brake for that. i guess it would be about the same as rolling off the throttle slower wouldnt it? definitely would smooth things out but i feel like using the front brake sets up the forks a little bit better for a quicker front brake application...

the process im talking about for those not getting it:

* WOT,
* approach braking zone, maybe 20 feet before braking zone, apply 5-10% front brake,
* forks begin to dive,
* roll off throttle and start applying more brakes... these two happen almost the same time... throttle roll off happens quicker than the brakes come on.
* then full brakes, get down to speed (brakes down to maybe 40% by this time),
* turn in,
* then slowly trail the brake the rest of the way until a little bit before the apex (depending on the turn),
* then back to throttle roll on, smooth to wot as you give it a little help picking up with the inside bar as you can get back to full power

[Alex]

Originally Posted by alex.s

not sure what coondogs problem is.

He was just complimenting Chris on a brainy yet accurate reply.

Originally Posted by csmith12

He was just joking around Nem, I got it.

Yup.

[Nemesis]

EDIT - Just downshift and modulate the clutch.

[alex.s]

that makes more sense

[alex.s]

@Nemesis what do you do on the 600 for roll off?

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by alex.s

@Nemesis what do you do on the 600 for roll off?

You're not going to tuck the front from braking hard in a straight line.

Honestly...on the 600, I just simplify everything by not over thinking it.

In other words, I just deal with it.

Your issue isn't with the front brakes/suspension but how to take a short quick turn coming from a fast straight away. That's your problem.

Me? I just brake late & hard and release and just FLICK the bike and let the suspension & tires do its thang.

[alex.s]

thanks jon. next chance i get i will practice diving in later with a quicker turn in dont be affraid to be brutally honest with me, it takes a lot for me to get butthurt. i already know im a horrible squid who sucks

i want to do some front fork tuning... something about getting hard on the brakes on that bike when going fast feels... off... at least compared to the 250... but then again you are only going like 100mph at the most on the 250... hmm maybe i shoould just take the 250!!!

[Nemesis]

Here's another honesty, you're a fast learner. You were smooth out there with a really decent pace for someone who's never been to that track.

There are a few issues you need to work on and one of them is getting rid of that bike and getting you on a proper bike. And I don't mean a 250. I mean a more updated bike with better suspension (front & rear).

[alex.s]

hmm. but new bikes are so expensive... do you think i can get away with an r6 shock and emulators in the front? maybe ill try to sell the 250 to help fund a new 600

[Nemesis]

Or how about you race a 250.

[n4mwd]

Alex, it might have helped us a little if you had mentioned that you were talking about track riding. I see in your posts you mention 100mph turns at WOT. At least I hope you are talking about the track. Its apples and oranges as far as I can tell. Not many people take street corners at 100 mph anyway.

[alex.s]

oh. right.

sorry.

dont take corners at 100mph on the street. as dustin from trackdaz says, the street is for wheelies and stoppies and ****

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Or how about you race a 250.

...

[Nemesis]

Get your CVMA racer license and trackday fees are reduced to $100 w/trackdaz. Also other orgs give you racer's discount. Some good stuff right there!

[alex.s]

how long after making it to A group should you wait to go for NRS?

[Nemesis]

I just started to get confident passing people in B group when I started to race and after the first race weekend BAM! I'm doing A pace.

Telling you, racing is the shizzle!

[alex.s]

OK, ok. once my 4 pack is up (2 more days left) i will sign up for NRS.

[Nemesis]

I'm sure I shared this somewhere either here or on SCM but the true reason why I signed up for the NRS was to get discounts on trackdays. Yeah, I'm a cheap @$$.

But after I did the mock race...OMGosh! I had a grin from ear to ear and I had found a new love for the sport that was just starting to die down for me (i.e. doing trackdays).

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by coondog

You're the guy everyone hated in high school! Great post!

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Alex, it might have helped us a little if you had mentioned that you were talking about track riding. I see in your posts you mention 100mph turns at WOT. At least I hope you are talking about the track. Its apples and oranges as far as I can tell. Not many people take street corners at 100 mph anyway.

Actually, everything that Chris posted applies to riding at the speed limit on twisty roads or even on the street. I'm not saying there is only one way to slow down. There are plenty of ways to achieve this goal. However, trail braking can, and will, allow you to control your speed all the way down to an apex be it a mountain road or the corner by the local 7-11. It is all about getting your speed down in a smooth and controlled manner.

I do everything that is in his diagram on the street. Like Chris stated, not for beginners, but learning this stuff is what makes a beginner into a better rider. Plus as an added benefit, it is a whole lotta fun

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by JeffM

it a whole lotta fun

its extremely addictive when you get used to it i can only imagine how addictive backing it in is

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i can only imagine how addictive backing it in is

pics once you figure it out