Ebay chain/sprocket combo?

[corksil]

Hey, it seems I need a new chain/sprockets.

I finished maintenance with chain tensioning today and discovered the following.

The chain tensioned perfectly, everything looked to line up with a 6ft level along the side of the tires, a nice perfect gap on either side of the front tire so I know the wheel was pointed properly.

Now for the tricky part -- spinning the tire, the chain was tensioned perfectly except for one spot in the rotation of the chain -- the chain got very tight and had almost no deflection.

I've noticed a noise when riding after first buying the bike 5k miles ago -- almost like a rubbing sound as the chain goes around... BMMFF... nothing... BMMFF... nothing.. BMMFF. Obviously it picks up in speed along with the speed of the bike.. at high speed it's less noticeable due to the wind noise etc, but I can still hear and slightly feel the BMMMF.. BMMFF.. BMMFF.

I've heard that chain/sprockets should be changed together to keep them from wearing eachother out prematurely. Local part shop quoted ~280 for all three, bikeband!t quoted ~250, and a quick ebay searched quoted ~58 for all three, shipped. (Non o-ring chain, but I heard I can pick up a little more 'pep' by running a non-o-ring-chain as long as I lube it religiously.

I have a few questions, lets start with this...

-- Does an oddly-worn chain/sprockets sound like the cause of my problem?

-- Has anyone ordered/used an ebay chain/sprocket set like this?

The bike has 14000 miles on it, I'm the third owner. It was reportedly left out in the rain for quite some time and had the carbs disassembled/cleaned by the man I bought it from. The previous owner was a very big guy and didn't seem like the type to do any maintenance after he got it running, just sweat all over it and cause strain on all the parts due to his large a$$.

Thanks!

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by corksil

-- Does an oddly-worn chain/sprockets sound like the cause of my problem?

Sounds like the chain has worn/stretched and needs immediate replacing.

Originally Posted by corksil

-- Has anyone ordered/used an ebay chain/sprocket set like this?

No, but I would suggest spending the money and getting at least a quality chain and steel sprockets. JT sprockets and an RK X-ring chain will run you about ~$140.

http://sprocketcenter.com/index.php/...nja-08-13.html

[corksil]

After some reading, I've heard some bad things about the volar chains in the link included.

Hopefully some of you guys know what's up.

I'm torn between getting this bike patched up and selling it to buy a 600, because this 250r only pulls a top speed of 98mph in full tuck, but a bigger bike just sounds like an eventual bigger crash. Scary to think about.

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by corksil

I'm torn between getting this bike patched up and selling it to buy a 600, because this 250r only pulls me up the highway at a top speed of 98mph in full tuck, but a bigger bike just sounds like an eventual bigger crash. Scary to think about.

wat?

[corksil]

Originally Posted by menikmati

wat?

My penor rises at the same speed as the speedometer needle once it exceeds 100mph.

I should probably delete this post and edit the prior to include that I was on a closed course, with no traffic involved, doing a top speed test in full gear under safe conditions, with medical supervision standing by in the event of a crash.

Oh wait, you quoted me so my credibility has already been destroyed and people will probably close this thread while muttering about squidward from spongebob and how 20-somethings shouldn't be allowed to ride motorcycles on public roads.

Hopefully some kinds souls on here will respond to my questions regardless.

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by corksil

My penor rises at the same speed as the speedometer needle once it exceeds 100mph.

I should probably delete this post and edit the prior to include that I was on a closed course, with no traffic involved, doing a top speed test in full gear under safe conditions, with medical supervision standing by in the event of a crash.

Oh wait, you quoted me so my credibility has already been destroyed and people will probably close this thread while muttering about squidward from spongebob and how 20-somethings shouldn't be allowed to ride motorcycles on public roads.

Hopefully some kinds souls on here will respond to my questions regardless.

I and the Ninjette community are here to help you, not judge you.

[Teh_K]

Adjusting chain slack is supposed to be done at the tightest spot on the chain to avoid the scenario which you describe. You don't want a chain that has perfect tightness, except for 1 super tight spot - you want a chain where the tightest point is at the correct slack, even if it means that the rest of it is loose. If the difference between the tightest/loosest spot is a lot, then it's probably time to replace it.

Everyone (as well as the service manual) recommends replacing the chain/sprockets as a set so that it all wears evenly. If you're looking to cut corners, you could just replace the chain as long as the sprocket teeth aren't worn down or curved/hooked. A lot of track guys swap sprockets depending on the track they're at - so, your bike won't explode or anything. However, track guys aren't looking to get longevity out of their chain/sprockets, so if you do this, expect stuff to wear a little quicker. In my experience, when I replace my chains, the sprockets still look really good... but I replace 'em all anyway.

I would highly recommend not getting that ebay set (IMO). The clip-style master links aren't as dependable as the rivet-style (I don't think clip-style are allowed on tracks at all). Combine that with a non-oring chain, and I think it's just asking for trouble. Chains take a lot of wear and abuse, and the grease that the o-rings keep inside helps reduce this a lot. You'd have to constantly be lubing that chain... like, every 25-50 miles... and it'd still wear out in no time. If you insist on getting it, I would (at the very least) safety wire the clip master link so that there's less of a chance of it popping off while riding - but, really, I'd just get a real m/c chain.

DID, RK, and EK chains are quality chains - even their 'entry' level chains are much better than that ebay one. The ebay sprockets might be fine, but I'd be surprised if that set lasts a season, safely.

[csmith12]

^^^ all good stuff, although clip links are allowed on track bikes, they just have to be safety wired. The tech guys/gals sometimes don't even check though.

[Teh_K]

Just as a follow-up, the stock final drive info on the 08+ 250's are:

Front sprocket: 14 teeth
Rear sprocket: 45 teeth (43 for Australian models)
Chain pitch: 520
Stock chain: EK520SR-O2
Links for stock sprocket ratio: 106 links

The last chain/sprocket set I got (was for the 600's) was from Pit Bull. They make quality sprockets, and supply chains from DID and EK.

Front sprocket - $25
Rear sprocket - $55
EK SRO 520 chain - $70, no frills, stock replacement

Keep in mind that you'll need a chain breaker tool if you plan to do this yourself.

[corksil]

Thank you guys very much. I have ascertained the following from your posts..

Time to replace chain and both sprockets. I'll need a chain breaker tool in addition to the parts.

My best bet is to not be a tight-ass and for ~121usd but the DID x-ring chain and OEM sprockets posted from sprocket center. Just got off the phone with them and was told I'll also need a ~75usd chain cutter/installation tool. So that's $200 and looks like my best/cheapest bet.

Now for my other question...

Would it be worth it for me to change my sprocket sizes from OEM? (14/45)

The bike tops out at 98mph on a slight incline with no wind, so I wouldn't say it's very 'fast.' But it doesn't accelerate particularly quick(ly) either, so I think that shifting the sprocket sizes would compromise things I don't want to compromise.

I understand that I can gain/lose teeth to shift the handling characteristics toward/from acceleration/top speed. (

Correct to assume that shifting sprockets toward top speed will hurt my acceleration, and shifting sprockets toward acceleration will hurt my top speed -- correct?

Damn, this bike accelerates slow and has a slow top speed. Might be best to just not mess with the sizing. Someone plz let me know so I can get this stuff ordered and installed asap.

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by corksil

Thank you guys very much. I have ascertained the following from your posts..

Time to replace chain and both sprockets. I'll need a chain breaker tool in addition to the parts.

My best bet is to not be a tight-ass and for ~121usd but the DID x-ring chain and OEM sprockets posted from sprocket center. Just got off the phone with them and was told I'll also need a ~75usd chain cutter/installation tool. So that's $200 and looks like my best/cheapest bet.

Now for my other question...

Would it be worth it for me to change my sprocket sizes from OEM? (14/45)

The bike tops out at 98mph on a slight incline with no wind, so I wouldn't say it's very 'fast.' But it doesn't accelerate particularly quick(ly) either, so I think that shifting the sprocket sizes would compromise things I don't want to compromise.

I understand that I can gain/lose teeth to shift the handling characteristics toward/from acceleration/top speed. (

Correct to assume that shifting sprockets toward top speed will hurt my acceleration, and shifting sprockets toward acceleration will hurt my top speed -- correct?

Damn, this bike accelerates slow and has a slow top speed. Might be best to just not mess with the sizing. Someone plz let me know so I can get this stuff ordered and installed asap.

If you want to increase your top speed, changing sprockets will be of minimal help as you are limited by HP, not gearing.

As for chain tools, I've used an EMGO chain cutting tool that I've bought off of eBay and have cut/riveted 3 chains and the tool has held up fine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMGO-Chain-R...c2acfb&vxp=mtr

If you have a Cycle Gear local to you, they have a Stockton-branded chain tool for $19.99, but I cannot vouch for the quality of the tool. It does have a lot of positive reviews for it, though.

http://www.cyclegear.com/CycleGear/A.../p/36518_00000

[Teh_K]

Right - you can't use gearing to gain both accel and top-speed... one sacrifices for the other. Although, Menikmati is right - I don't think trying to get a higher top speed via gearing will gain you much on this bike... likely it will just shift cruising RPMs to be lower, but the bike might not have enough HP to push much higher than 100mph at that gear ratio.

This might be an unpopular opinion, but it sounds to me like you're trying to make the 250 something it's not. There's nothing you can do to the 250 to make it beyond ~10% quicker/faster... period. You can throw a ton of money at it and add a full exhaust, jetting, engine work, gear ratios, etc, and after all that, your net gain might be 10%. This makes sense if you're competing in a 250cc class race or something (or if you really just like this bike, which a lot of people do). But it will never be as fast as a higher cc bike, if that's what you're looking for.

Back on topic: I feel like I should mention that all chains will wear somewhat unevenly, so just because you have a tight spot might not necessarily mean you need a replacement. Most chains will have a tight spot, it's just hard to say how much of a slack-difference between the tight/loose spot warrants a replacement. If you have any cracking or missing o-rings, that's my definite replacement flag. There's also the official way to check:

[Bones85]

Do not cheap out on chain/sprockets. Not worth risking your life/bike over saving $50.

If you go on Amazon you can get a RK chain and JT front/rear sprockets for ~$110.

$110 is pretty cheap considering your chain/sprockets should last 20,000-25,000 miles with proper maintenance.

[corksil]

So as of now I have to decide between the chain tools.

121 bucks for JT sprockets and a nice chain is reasonable and I'll order them later today after I make it to the bank.

That leaves me to choose the chain tool...

75 for this one.
58 for this one.
27 for this one.

I don't know of anyone whom I could borrow a tool from -- and I'm assuming that I could get the old chain off with an angle grinder and some determination, but putting the new one on will not be possible without a tool.

The chain is a DID 520 VX2 x-ring with rivet link rated for 750cc in natural color as far as I know.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by corksil

I don't know of anyone whom I could borrow a tool from -- and I'm assuming that I could get the old chain off with an angle grinder and some determination, but putting the new one on will not be possible without a tool.

Sure you can. I use a Dremel to cut the chain & a pair of vice grips to press the rivet link on.

[corksil]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Sure you can. I use a Dremel to cut the chain & a pair of vice grips to press the rivet link on.

Difficult but doable? I'll research this later, have to get the chain ordered ASAP.

75 bucks for the fancy tool doesn't seem like a worthwhile expense.

Might try calling a local bike shop and seeing what they have for 300% dealer markup.

[corksil]

So after a little research it sounds like all I really need to do to install the rivet master link is peen a rivet or two?

[tfkrocks]

Originally Posted by corksil

So after a little research it sounds like all I really need to do to install the rivet master link is peen a rivet or two?

You will peen two rivets.

[Alex]

Who's going to be the one to tell him that the ninjette speedometer typically reads 8% to 10% high?

[corksil]

@ alex -- DUDE! No WONDER I have been having erectile disfunction issues lately... I think I'm moving at 100mph+ (downhill with throttle pinned in 6th, full tuck)... and my penor just simply hasn't been rising with the intensity that 100+ in my car serves to inspire. Makes perfect sense... I'm apparently only doing 90mph

@ tfk -- thanks, I will peen as many rivets as I must.

@ everyone else -- I ordered replacement chain/sprockets today and opted to two teeth up (47t) on the rear sprocket for increased midrange.. Can anyone tell me how many HP I'll gain with the upgrade? ~10hp? ~15hp?

I sure am an eager beaver to receive/install these new parts. I got a BLACK chain, because the women cannot resist that badboy motorcycle with black parts. Oh dear. Hopefully the HP increase from changing rear sprocket will solve my ED issues before the women accost my penor and demand my seed.

Thanks everyone

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by corksil

@ alex -- DUDE! No WONDER I have been having erectile disfunction issues lately... I think I'm moving at 100mph+ (downhill with throttle pinned in 6th, full tuck)... and my penor just simply hasn't been rising with the intensity that 100+ in my car serves to inspire. Makes perfect sense... I'm apparently only doing 90mph

@ tfk -- thanks, I will peen as many rivets as I must.

@ everyone else -- I ordered replacement chain/sprockets today and opted to two teeth up (47t) on the rear sprocket for increased midrange.. Can anyone tell me how many HP I'll gain with the upgrade? ~10hp? ~15hp?

I sure am an eager beaver to receive/install these new parts. I got a BLACK chain, because the women cannot resist that badboy motorcycle with black parts. Oh dear. Hopefully the HP increase from changing rear sprocket will solve my ED issues before the women accost my penor and demand my seed.

Thanks everyone

I don't even...what...?

[tfkrocks]

sprockets don't change horsepower.

unless you weren't being serious, in which case you will gain over 9000 hp

[Alex]

If the sprockets don't work, you can always install one of these.

[corksil]

Originally Posted by Alex

If the sprockets don't work, you can always install one of these.

My god... the unrealized gains of port/polishing the plenums with proper injection tuning for high RPM gearing at the bottom of the powerband..

9000hp? Over 19000 with some bench flow testing and CFM optimization.. Production engines tend to be paperweights when you compare their unleashed potential to the brochure numbers. BRB installing nitrous.

So I just finished installing my new chain/sprockets.. 14t front, 47t rear, DID o-ring chain. I puttered up and down the block once to make sure everything was installed correctly, but there were too many bugs and too much common sense clouding my vision to take the bike up to speed without a helmet before I finish cleaning the lid and installing new cheek pads etc.

What should I expect after adding 2 teeth to the rear sprocket? Maybe I'll take her for a spin tomorrow after I get back from the range where I plan to fire high-caliber firearms with one hand whilst holding the guns sideways like they taught me how to do in grand-theft-auto-3 video game.

Hard to say at 20mph, but the bike felt just a wee bit more 'peppy.' I think removing the cush drive on the front sprocket definitely made things feel a bit more twitchy, and after the new chain stretches out to spec after 100miles I expect the twitchy feeling to become more pronounced.

Anyone?

[choneofakind]

14/47 will be more peppy for roll-ons. It will also sing at 10,000 rpm at highway speeds (70 to keep with the flow of traffic, not anything crazy) and you'll have to shift way more often on curves because the gears are a little closer together. It was fun for me while I had it, but not useful for long trips. It kept me really on my toes at mid Ohio. Literally shifting between every single corner and topping 6th on the straight. Also, my favorite back road put me at that awkward speed where I was too low in 3rd entering corners but too high in second. Then on exit I was topping third but not wanting to go into 4th.

I'm at 15/45 now. 0-60 times are identical (if not faster because I have one less shift) and I have longer pull through longer corners. I'm also turning a more acceptable speed at 70mph. Much nicer gearing for more roads/tracks IMHO. I can ride "the pace", take one corner, then cruise to the next and not need to up shift because I pulled through my entire gear. I'm at that happy relaxed 3rd gear flow through my favorite road now.

[corksil]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

14/47 will be more peppy for roll-ons. It will also sing at 10,000 rpm at highway speeds (70 to keep with the flow of traffic, not anything crazy) and you'll have to shift way more often on curves because the gears are a little closer together. It was fun for me while I had it, but not useful for long trips. It kept me really on my toes at mid Ohio. Literally shifting between every single corner and topping 6th on the straight. Also, my favorite back road put me at that awkward speed where I was too low in 3rd entering corners but too high in second. Then on exit I was topping third but not wanting to go into 4th.

I'm at 15/45 now. 0-60 times are identical (if not faster because I have one less shift) and I have longer pull through longer corners. I'm also turning a more acceptable speed at 70mph. Much nicer gearing for more roads/tracks IMHO. I can ride "the pace", take one corner, then cruise to the next and not need to up shift because I pulled through my entire gear. I'm at that happy relaxed 3rd gear flow through my favorite road now.

After 100 miles of seat time, my overall impression of 14/47 is as follows.

The power feels more 'right there.' No more awkward downshifts mid turn, not more jerky upshifts mid turn. It's easier to find the power sweet spot before entering a turn, and rolling on pulls more smoothly without 'waiting' for the bike to pick up speed through a corner.

Also the clutch/drivetrain feel much more predictable. Given, my old chain [and probably sprockets] were certainly worn and I had a tight spot in my chain, everywhere else was very loose. Much less chain noise as well, but all that is probably because of the poor shape my previous chain/sprocket were in. Not as much of a reflection on performance differences as a reflection of fixing a mechanical problem.

Either way, I'm quite pleased. This bike keeps getting better. Next up, fix the tach so I know what gear/RPM I'm actually riding in/at.

[Xtina]

Originally Posted by corksil

Either way, I'm quite pleased. This bike keeps getting better. Next up, fix the tach so I know what gear/RPM I'm actually riding in/at.

I thought the speedo readout on the 250s is at the front wheel? Therefore changing sprockets shouldn't make a difference...

[choneofakind]

Speedo readout IS off the front wheel, but he's been having issues with the tach reading properly while riding. Sounds like his CDI is goofy or something. That issue was happening before the sprocket change.

[Xtina]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Speedo readout IS off the front wheel, but he's been having issues with the tach reading properly while riding. Sounds like his CDI is goofy or something. That issue was happening before the sprocket change.

[corksil]

So is my issue CDI or tach/cluster?

Should I flip a coin before ordering one or The other?

The bike has definitely been rained on..