Ever lead a small group ride where someone went down?

[subxero]

As the topic asks.

Have you ever led a ride and someone went down, maybe in a tricky turn or just a sharp one.
Then think... perhaps i should have not gone that way? Or made an effort to emphasize to trailing riders be extra cautious.

So enough beating around the bush, this happened today. Went for a small group ride with a few people and it was great. road for a while put on some good miles on some really good roads. Conditions at first were mixed. some gravel from trucks from recent snow fall and roads were a bit damp especially in shaded areas. Things dried out towards end of ride and nearing our destination i made a last minute decision to go a back road i might not have normally taken except we had been behind a slow SUV for the last 5 miles.
Before the turn for this road i thought it out in my head.
If SUV takes this road we will go this way, or if they go that way we will go other way. Thought about the two roads and the one is great, the other is good too but has some trickier turns and potential for some loose gravel.
I figured it would be fine either way, nothing crazy going on with the roads we haven't already encountered during the ride.

So we end up on this road and i am leading going at a very reasonable pace, especially compared to some earlier sections as i have not been on this road in a while and know it could hold some surprises.
As i continue the road is decent and i come up on a hard left hander, road looks clean, i brake a little harder than i was expecting to but set into the curve and roll right on through, power out for the next curve shortly after which is a great right hander with great visibility. I clear the second curve then begin looking back for other riders and no one. hmmm well maybe they are going slow. I come to a stop and still no one. I realize at this point the rider behind me must have gone down in the hard left hander.
Turn around head back and sure enough, there he is sitting on the guard rail, bike laying in the gravel.
No injuries which is a plus, ATGATT, bike a little busted up but nothing serious it was a low speed low side. This rider was a newer rider.

It's just weird cuz we were literally 2 miles away from destination, we had been riding for many miles, some roads were less than ideal for riding and last minute decision to take this odd ball road ends with one of the riders going down.

It just sucks

They told me that this was probably going to be their last outing this year before they put the bike away for winter.

I guess at least they have all winter to get it fixed up right?

[rasta]

Hmm by braking harder than you expected leads me to think you entered the curve a little too hot. You had the experience to make it thru, but the guy following probably didn't. This is why I don't think newer riders should be in group rides in the first place

[Whiskey]

Rule #1 for group riding - Ride your own ride, you're responsible for your own safety. If the leader is caning it & you're not comfortable to keep pace then slow down, the leader will (at least they ****in should) notice they've lost the group & hold position until they show up again.

This should be made very clear to anyone on a group ride.

[Boom King]

+1 on riding your own ride. Also don't be afraid to do a polite wave goodbye at the next stop if the pace is not within your comfort level.

When leading a group with newer riders, I aim to set a pace that's well within their level, not mine. That means a pace that gives you enough time to warn the group of hot corners. Here's an except from The Pace:

"Our group slows drastically when a new rider joins the ranks because our technique of moderate straightaway speeds and no brakes can suck the unaware into a corner too fast, creating the most common single-bike accident. With a new rider learning The Pace behind you, tap your brake lightly well before the turn to alert him and make sure he understands there's no pressure to stay with the group."

[greenaero]

It seems like about half the group rides I've been on, some one bites the dust. Once, tragically, a young rider was killed. Group rides bring out the competiveness inherent in most riders. As stated above, it's very important before the ride to lay down the rules and deliver the message that rider safety is the #1 concern; that the riders need to stay within their comfortable zone and not be under pressure to keep up the pace.

[csmith12]

I didn't lead any group rides this year. But last year... oh man.

Ninja on the front porch, remember that pic? It shook him up so much he still hasn't ridden again. Yet.... but he will.
I seen the helicopter land twice.
Many 1st, 2nd and 3rd season riders have went down on group rides where I have lead or swept.

It sucks but sometimes it happens no matter what pace you set, or even if everyone rides their own ride. Maybe someone forgets and leaves their kickstand down, mistakes just sometimes happen.

And in my sig., is the link to what I cover before I lead a ride. I say those, no matter the groups size, the groups skill level or the route we take.

[Daks]

When you're leading a ride for newbies in particular, you need to at least tap the brake prematurely for the corner so that those racing the straight to keep up don't enter too hot. If you braked harder than expected, the kid behind you probably had no reference for that nor the skill to judge their own entry speed.

I've been on tons of "newbie" or "mellow" rides and none went with any incident. Everyone should ride their own rides but most new riders don't even know what their own pace is yet.

[Insan3guy]

Definitely another +1 to riding your own ride. I went down on a group ride because I was trying to catch up, ended up in a field. Nothing hurt on me or the bike, but it definitely could've been a lot, LOT worse. (ATGATT FTW)

However, that one ride taught me SO much more than I could learn on my own - like how to lean, where to be at different parts of the turn (I'd read up on it, but it's much different in person), etc.

[fast1075]

Myself and a friend started a meetup group 4 years ago. The bulk of crashes come from people riding too close and over their head. We have a safety meeting before each ride and assign position based on experience. Either myself or my friend ride trail. We do bike inspections ask anyone with unsafe equipment to get it fixed before returning.

When we make stops, we go over our observations, offer advice, and warnings for rule violations. A second violation gets the person sent home with a do not come back penalty.

The rules are simple. The leader sets the pace. No passing in corners. Leave room between you and the person you follow. No wheelies or anything that someone may think is "stunting". Give courtesy to other motorists. Having followed all the other rules, it is the individual's responsibility to ride at their own pace. Trail rider shepherds the slower people. Leader waits at stop signs and traffic lights for everyone to catch up.

Living in Florida, there is not much trouble with road debris, but animals are a problem. A month ago on one ride, we had 3 crashes. All caused by animals. One guy had a 75 pound pig zip out in front of him. He went to the hospital in a chopper. One guy hit a dog but only ran off the road with no injury and minimal damage. The other guy hit a dog. He walked away, but his bike, a beautiful ZX10 went home in a truck with the front end torn off.

[subxero]

After thinking about it, I am fairly convinced they went down because they came in little to hot for their comfort level AND that since they are a newer rider they have not been riding aggressively and because of that they are not used to having to get on the brakes in order to set corner speed. (Stay with me here)

The problem with this particular turn for them was that you don't actually get a look at the turn until you are only a few yards away from it as you come up over a small crest then BOOM there is a sharp 90degree turn. Since you can't see the turn ahead of time unless you are familiar with the turn you cant set your entry speed until moments before.
I feel like a lot of newer cautious riders probably get by setting corner speed by simply rolling of the throttle as they speed they travel generally doesn't require much more than that and in this instance rolling off would not have been enough to scrub enough speed for the speed they were going.

We were not going fast by any means but it is a deceiving corner that reveals it's self quickly.

Try to attach google image, but if any one wants a better look you can check it out ground level on google maps to give you an idea here ( http://goo.gl/maps/Sx2jz ) we were traveling west to east. But if you start west by one of the houses and scroll forward on ground level you get an idea of how the turn comes up on you. I feel it is more drastic in real life as well.

[csmith12]

From the group leaders point of view, one must take route "gotcha" spots along the route into account. Even when there are expert racers in our group, we still give a quick hand signal to them letting them know a gotcha spot is ahead when they are new to a route. It really goes a long way.

[YORCHI]

I've never led a group ride but I can tell you that when I went on them we always kept the new and less experienced slower riders towards the back and let the faster ones up front. On my first ride a guy took a right turn too wide and drifted into the oncoming lane and panicked when he saw a van. The girl behind him was too close and panicked as well when he stopped and ran right into the back of him. 6 months later the same rider that caused the crash went down on his own in a turn that he came into too fast. Each order needs to stay within his or her limits and the group as a whole needs to be patient and keep their distances. Sucks this happened but all you can do is learn from it and figure out what you coulda done differently to prevent it next time.

[subxero]

Yeah after all was said and done, I figured I should have went with my initial gut instinct and not taken that odd back road. That was step 1 which would have solved the problem, but it is hard to gauge a riders skill level and what they are capable of. I think I said it earlier but I wasn't even concerned about the turn where the rider went down. I knew it was a sharp turn but figured no problem I was more concerned about a difficult down hill turn later on the road... that we never got to.
The other thing I could have done was purposefully slowed down to a creep before the turn forcing the riders behind me to go very slow and cautious in that section but I guess I wanted to enjoy that turn and put my goals ahead of the safety of the group.
(by no means was I going fast though)

live and learn. after talking with the rider recently they think the bike is still in good shape, mostly cosmetic damage. Something is wrong with front brake, no pressure so there must be a leak or something somewhere.
The thing I told them that was sh***y was that they just got a new Dainese leather perforated jacket, the elbow is a little tore up but then again if they had been wearing a cheaper jacket they might have sustained more significant injury. Will never know

[CC Cowboy]

Riding a motorcycle takes responsibility, self-control, and knowing your own talent level. Each rider is on their own (even in a group). If someone crashes it is their own fault and however sad, it is not the leader's responsibilty.

I would still wait a month or so before rubbing it in their face that they crashed.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Riding a motorcycle takes responsibility, self-control, and knowing your own talent level. Each rider is on their own (even in a group). If someone crashes it is their own fault and however sad, it is not the leader's responsibilty.

I would still wait a month or so before rubbing it in their face that they crashed.

Duly noted