Would you brake or speed up?

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

Everyone here is saying braking wouldn't do anything and you'd have to accelerate out of this, but I think if you saw the car coming at you early enough braking would be the better alternative. Braking at the point where it's inches away from him would've been bad for sure but a couple seconds before that and he could've slammed on the brakes and missed the car entirely.

Also, as others have said it doesn't look like he did anything but swerve. It was possible that he accelerated after he realized what was happening but at that point the car had already missed him.

I think that braking or accelerating would be the right thing to do, depending on when you realized what was going on in this situation. If I saw the car starting to come towards me, I'd probably brake. If I didn't realize it was coming right at me until it was too close I'd probably lay on the throttle. It's a good point that a 250 probably wouldn't have the quick acceleration necessary to get out of something like this, hell I don't think my 500 would especially with carb lag. Everyone go buy a literbike so you can have gobs of power in every gear, it's safer!

yup, your reaction would depend entirely on how much space you have and the equipment you're working with

that'd be a great excuse to get a liter

[csmith12]

Preparation and having the entire track's width is huge!!!!

And Ben, I countersteer for the chicane at mid-o (turns 2 & 3) at 120mph while riding the A group. I know that is faster than freeway speeds but in the I group, 80 is common and is a fairly common speed on the freeway and N is even slower @65 to 75ish, definitely highway speeds. Most N group riders lazy steer into that, which will not save your bacon on the highway. Many I group riders steer ok into the chicane only to charge the second turn... which could have you into the other lanes while on the street if you go wide. It's not until upper level I group or A group that it looks smooth, in control, AND aggressive.

It's not until some good time spent on a closed course, can a rider work up the skill and courage to fully explore how hard they can turn at pace. This is something that will never be close to trained during the MSF. And since there are more riders that never see a lap turned on track than what do... one could assume that the skill is not there, and even if it is... is there time to use it? Heck, many riders question if they push too hard to swerve, will they wash out the front? We are currently exploring this question in another thread.

As far as chicanes and swerves on the street go.
I would tell an experienced A group rider to; roll off or flatten the throttle to weight the front, go knee to knee while doing a hip flick, then countersteer HARD to initiate the flop, start a smooth throttle roll once the line is set. A chicane is NOTHING like a highway emergency swerve.

But a great question none the less Motofool.

[Motofool]

Thanks for the replies @Sirref, @KawiKid860 and @csmith12

What about changing lanes at 80 mph?
Would any rider hesitate to quickly move over one lane to avoid a big chunk of tire appearing from under the tall truck that him/her has been following at highway speeds?

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

Everyone here is saying braking wouldn't do anything and you'd have to accelerate out of this, but I think if you saw the car coming at you early enough braking would be the better alternative. Braking at the point where it's inches away from him would've been bad for sure but a couple seconds before that and he could've slammed on the brakes and missed the car entirely.

Also, as others have said it doesn't look like he did anything but swerve. It was possible that he accelerated after he realized what was happening but at that point the car had already missed him.

I think that braking or accelerating would be the right thing to do, depending on when you realized what was going on in this situation. If I saw the car starting to come towards me, I'd probably brake. If I didn't realize it was coming right at me until it was too close I'd probably lay on the throttle. It's a good point that a 250 probably wouldn't have the quick acceleration necessary to get out of something like this, hell I don't think my 500 would especially with carb lag. Everyone go buy a literbike so you can have gobs of power in every gear, it's safer!

braking would put you into more trouble, how aware are you of the traffic behind you? how aware are they of you? This is an instant where forward propulsion is the best option.

[allanoue]

I would have been braking hard as soon as I saw that car sway to the right.

[KawiKid860]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Thanks for the replies @Sirref, @KawiKid860 and @csmith12

What about changing lanes at 80 mph?
Would any rider hesitate to quickly move over one lane to avoid a big chunk of tire appearing from under the tall truck that him/her has been following at highway speeds?

If I had to, I've encountered that though not extremely close, and had plenty of time to maneuver around it without really being in a sketchy situation. I'll admit I'm not the greatest at knowing my surroundings in an emergency situation, and have had to switch lanes to avoid something or someone. I was aware of my unawareness of my surroundings, however, so what I've done in those situations is swerve to the middle of the two lanes, so on the line (considering it's two lanes going the same direction and I can swerve into that lane and avoid the obstacle), counting on there being some space between a possible car and the line. And I accelerated while doing this so as I moved over, if there were a car in my blind spot I'd accelerate past the point of hitting them. Not the best solution for sure, and I'm lucky it's worked but it's surely better than hitting an obstacle or plowing into someone who didn't see you. I always try and learn everything I can from anything that happens on the road too, so hopefully eventually I'll have the experience and the maturity to use that experience properly. Also I'm pretty rusty when it comes to riding, as a person I'm more mature and do a lot less stupid stuff than I used to and I'm more aware of everything as I'm riding than I used to be, but lifes gotten in the way of riding a lot so my skills aren't really growing and I'm still discovering things a 900cc bike does that even a 600 won't.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Motofool

What about changing lanes at 80 mph?
Would any rider hesitate to quickly move over one lane to avoid a big chunk of tire appearing from under the tall truck that him/her has been following at highway speeds?

Sure thing, Alex.s said he has done it and I have swerved into the paved median to avoid a quick stopping car in front of me. I am sure others have dodged road other debris as well. It's just not the same techniques as track. Although if one could build the habit... how could "pivot steering" (using your legs to aid) help on the street?

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Motofool

What about changing lanes at 80 mph?
Would any rider hesitate to quickly move over one lane to avoid a big chunk of tire appearing from under the tall truck that him/her has been following at highway speeds?

I do that on a semi-regular basis to avoid roadkill the first time I see it, the average speed on some of my local roads is 60-80mph depending on the time of day and who you end up behind.

Originally Posted by csmith12

Sure thing, Alex.s said he has done it and I have swerved into the paved median to avoid a quick stopping car in front of me. I am sure others have dodged road other debris as well. It's just not the same techniques as track. Although if one could build the habit... how could "pivot steering" (using your legs to aid) help on the street?

Now pivot steering, transferring strength through your entire body much like how you throw a punch (outside foot pushes and transfers through the body to the inside hand), is a technique that actually scares me a bit due to my experience with testing it at lower speeds. The turn in is ridiculously faster and with so much less effort. Definitely a useful skill at the track where it can take more physical effort to make a bike fall into line but at street speeds it feels like overkill to me. Of course I could just be lacking the habit and control of the extra strength. The advantages of being able to steer faster and more efficiently should be fairly obvious when dealing with swerving out of the way of debris.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Sirref

Now pivot steering, transferring strength through your entire body much like how you throw a punch (outside foot pushes and transfers through the body to the inside hand), is a technique that actually scares me a bit due to my experience with testing it at lower speeds. The turn in is ridiculously faster and with so much less effort. Definitely a useful skill at the track where it can take more physical effort to make a bike fall into line but at street speeds it feels like overkill to me.

Overkill for day to day riding sure... when you're about to bite it, nothing is overkill.

[Sirref]

True, it's definitely a skill to keep up your sleeve. At the end of the day there's nothing more important than getting home safely.

[allanoue]

Hard to practice that at highway speeds anywhere other than the track

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Hard to practice that at highway speeds anywhere other than the track

Now you're getting into reasons why everyone should do a track day. Like I have always said... it's an educational experience first, going fast and stuff is just bonus.

Even though, just like throttle control, how hard you pivot steer can be controlled. You don't have to push as hard as you can. I think most riders exaggerate this aspect of steering. You simply just don't have to push hard enough to flop the bike over to knee down in an instant. We aint chopping wood here, it takes a bit of finer tuned control than "push hard".

Also, it feels very awkward at first, your leg and arm can be somewhat disconnected as far as timing goes or it feels like you're pushing into the tank with you leg instead of using the leg to benefit steering. It's a very subtle experience to pivot steer but adds soooo much power to the bar push. Why? It's not that leg muscle power is transferred to the arms in some magic motion. Its because we train the arm and core muscles to work together to steer instead of the arm alone. Just like a fencer thrusts forward, all muscles are working together to add power. This action is why pro racers can flick the bike from side to side so much faster than the average rider.

If one could build the skill and make it a habit, then they just upped their chances of avoiding a potential road hazard by alot. Would it have have saved the rider in the OP vid? Maybe... maybe not, but it sure wouldn't hurt to have the skill in their pocket to use as needed.