2007 Float Bowl Adjustment

[archaeofreak]

Hey all,

I just cleaned out my carbs, and I noticed when attempting to adjust the height of the float bowl that one of the bowls is less "springy" than the other. By this I mean that, when the right float bowl is pushed down and let go, it bounces a bit upward, but when I do the same thing for the left bowl, it does not have the same bounciness to it. It just seems "flat". Hope that makes sense.

Is there a spring or something in the bottom of the hole that the pin with the pointy rubber end sits in, that may be missing? Both pointy rubber ends seemed like new to me. Also, that same float bowl was sitting slightly lower than the other bowl. I tried to adjust the height by bending the metal tab (I tried both directions, up and down, because I could not find clear instructions on which way to bend to increase the height), but after bending the tab significantly in either direction (like 1/8"), I saw no change in the height.

Now, after running the bike for about 40 mi commuting, I have noticed lackluster, "boggy" acceleration at first in 1-3rd gear, which at around 3000-4000 RPMs, seems to jump forward too quickly, making the acceleration seem "jumpy". The bike seems fine in 4-6th gear.

I cleaned all the orifices, and adjusted the air mixture screws to 2.5 times out. Float diaphragms looked good, very little junk in the carbs. I did notice some red clay-like accumulation in the carbs, not sure if its rust from the tank or what, but cleaned it out. I have a conical in-line fuel filter installed. If it matters, this is a CA model with emissions stuff intact, but likely never serviced.

Other than the float bowl issue, I also need to sync the butterfly valves properly. They are currently visually synched with the little holes at the bottom of the butterfly valve.

The reason I cleaned the carbs was because the bike had been down for a month due to a rear brake caliper rebuild, and I noticed increasingly that the idle was bouncy, and wanted to stall out on start-up. Choke was becoming increasingly ineffective, like it was full-on, but acted like it was not on at all.

Any ideas on the issues here?

Some pics of the junk in the carb, some scratches/damage on the inside of the carb (is this bad?) and a video of start up after cleaning, just because...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uKrt1VFxe4

Thanks!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by archaeofreak

........
Any ideas on the issues here?

The plunges of the valves have an internal spring.
That prevents vibrations form the floats to wear the seat out.

For inspecting and adjusting the level of the floats, the carbs should be positioned in an angle like shown in the picture below, so the weight of the float compresses those springs just barely.

Take a look at these for verifying level of fuel:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=140623

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Draining_the_carbs

For total cleaning, adjustment and synchronization:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...n_the_carbs%3F

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Intake





[/QUOTE]

[Ghostt]

Yeah, what he said.

Carburetors have consumable parts, as long as you have them apart, you might want to replace them, PM @ducatiman for your carburetor needs.

[archaeofreak]

Thanks for responding guys.

I have gone through all the ninja wiki stuff many times. There is no mention of details of the float bowls. Your comment about "the plunges of the valves" having an internal spring is the first reference I have seen.

So, I may need to replace the float valve needle rod?

Any thoughts on what a bad internal spring could do?

I did the float bowl measurement as suggested by ninja wiki. I know the float is sitting lower than normal. Like I said, adjusting the tab did not seem to change the height. Is this because of the bad spring perhaps?

Any link to the actual part I could order? I suppose I could take them apart again and look for a corresponding spring in the other side of the carb...

Looks like you are saying I may need to replace this part?

16030
VALVE-FLOAT
16030-1007
$36.52

http://www.kawasakipartshouse.com/oe...rburetor-parts

What are the carb consumables? I reused the seals for the float bowl cover. They looked OK, not great, but I could see ordering some new ones. Other than those though, I did not see much that looked "old".

Again, thanks for responding!

[Yarhj]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Carburetors have consumable parts, as long as you have them apart, you might want to replace them, PM @ducatiman for your carburetor needs.

Originally Posted by archaeofreak

Thanks for responding guys.
What are the carb consumables? I reused the seals for the float bowl cover. They looked OK, not great, but I could see ordering some new ones. Other than those though, I did not see much that looked "old".

There are two little o-rings in the idle mixture screw assemblies that can deteriorate over time, and the tips of the float valves themselves can eventually break down and fail to seal properly. Also, I suppose its possible that the diaphragms themselves could degrade, but other than that I don't think there's much consumable stuff in the carburetors.

Surely someone will post momentarily to correct me =).

[archaeofreak]

Originally Posted by Yarhj

There are two little o-rings in the idle mixture screw assemblies that can deteriorate over time, and the tips of the float valves themselves can eventually break down and fail to seal properly. Also, I suppose its possible that the diaphragms themselves could degrade, but other than that I don't think there's much consumable stuff in the carburetors.

Surely someone will post momentarily to correct me =).

I could be missing one of the o-rings in the idle mixture screws, because I only remember one. The float valve tips looked perfect to me. Diaphragms too. Looking at the manual, the valve needle should be replaced if it does not "spring back". Sounds like my problem! Too bad its $36 bucks!

[Yarhj]

When I say two o-rings, I mean one per screw -- if that's what you saw when you disassembled them, you should be fine (from that angle, anyway).

[archaeofreak]

Originally Posted by Yarhj

When I say two o-rings, I mean one per screw -- if that's what you saw when you disassembled them, you should be fine (from that angle, anyway).

Ah OK then

[harvey58]

When I went through my carbs, I almost choked when I saw the price of the needles! However, K&L Supply sells replacement aftermarket ones that are WAY cheaper! Have been in the bike about 16 months now with no problems. I ride about 20 miles a day to and from work.
http://www.mcmcycleparts.com/index.p...roducts_id=718
K&L also has bowl gaskets and carb kits. Check their catalog. Given the amount of effort required to get to the carbs, it doesn't make sense to go back with the old parts.
One thing I noticed was that there was a difference in "spring height" between individual needles, so match the replacements. Hey, at this price it's worth it.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by archaeofreak

Thanks for responding guys.

I have gone through all the ninja wiki stuff many times. There is no mention of details of the float bowls. Your comment about "the plunges of the valves" having an internal spring is the first reference I have seen.

So, I may need to replace the float valve needle rod?

Any thoughts on what a bad internal spring could do?

I did the float bowl measurement as suggested by ninja wiki. I know the float is sitting lower than normal. Like I said, adjusting the tab did not seem to change the height. Is this because of the bad spring perhaps?
..........

If you have reassembled the carbs already, I would test how they work and maybe would use the method shown in the second picture to measure the actual level in each bowl.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_..._the_floats%3F

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_ca...ed_to_check%3F

The bending of the tab should have produced a big difference in measurement of the distance between float and edge of body.

Again, the internal spring allows some movement/vibration of the float while the flow is kept off.
Many motorcycle's carburetors worked well with a spring-less design.

If both valves are original, I see no reason for only one to be defective.
If the Neoprene cone is still soft, I would keep it and, if not holding proper fuel's level, replace the internal spring with something similar to the one in the good one.

If decided to replace the valves, contact the member linked above for a possible better price.

[ducatiman]

i sell a kit containing "consumables"...float valves, pilot screw orings, stainless buttonhead screws (2.5mm allen required) for both the float bowls and diaphragm caps ..quantities to do 1 carbset ....BOTH carbs $28 shipped

see pic, in stock, PM me. Paypal accepted, I ship daily.