September 7th, 2013, 09:26 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: 81
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High handle bar vibration, hard to get into high RPM, is this normal?
I don't know if this is normal for pregen Ninja 250 or not, I notice that it is really easy to get to RPM from 1k to 7k, but from 7K and up, it is much harder and slower to increase the RPM especially at higher gears of 4 and above. Sometime when I am at 6k RPM, at 5th gear, no matter even if I twist the throttle all the way to max, the RPM at most will increase to 7k, but not anything more, as a result the fastest I have ever gone I think is 60mph, I have not yet take this on freeway yet.
I'm just curious am I doing it wrong? Because I always change gears at around 7k, never above 8k. And when I change a gear up from 7k for example, the RPM usually goes 1.5k lower, after I repeat the step all the way from 1st gear to 4th or 5th I'm mostly at 7k RPM and no matter how much more gas I give it, the RPM seems to be stuck at 7k, and my speed rarely exceeds 55mph. Also another thing that I notices that after the engine is at 7k and above, the handle bar produces a LOT of vibration to the point that it actually numbs my hand. Any expert advice is appreciated, I'm just wondering what am I doing wrong here. |
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September 7th, 2013, 09:33 AM | #2 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
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It seems that your engine has no sufficient torque.
The reasons could be many. You may be able to find some local Ninjette member willing to check your problem first hand.
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September 7th, 2013, 10:37 AM | #3 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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What is the gearing?
Any mods? Does it seem to run ok? Airbox clear? Any exhaust leaks?
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September 7th, 2013, 11:12 AM | #5 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Justin
Location: Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.
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How many miles?
Any info on the last carb cleaning? Stock? Upgrades/mods?
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Mods: Offset clutch pressure plate |
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September 7th, 2013, 01:12 PM | #6 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: 81
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Just passed 300 miles, did a full tune up at 97 miles, took the carb apart, and cleaned the jets, and I recently cleaned the air filter and re oil it, as result of this I feel performance and warm up improved much.
Bike have No mods, all stock, no fluid leaking from exhaust or anywhere as far as I see. After I made the original post, I took it out for a ride, this time I tried to shift at 8-10K from 1st gear, to 2nd to 3rd. And I see much faster acceleration, it is very easy to take it to 50mph, but at 4th gears and above the acceleration/RPM slows down quite a bit. It actually seems not possible to take it to 8k RPM at 5th gear or above. The fastest I can go is 62mph today, and it took me about a quarter miles to achieve this speed, and this is up shifting at RPM of 8-9k or more, but when I shifted to 5th gear, no matter how much throttle I give it, it refuse to go to 8k and above. I have never ridden another motorcycle before, so I can't compare, but besides this problem everything else feels great, the bike is responsive, all thing seems to be in good functional state. |
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September 7th, 2013, 02:17 PM | #7 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
After some minutes of riding, touch both cylinders and see if one is cold: if so, that one is not firing or having combustion. You did not mention adjustment of valves: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_..._the_valves%3F http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Service_Schedule http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Trouble...roubleshooting http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/My_engi...running_poorly http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_..._the_floats%3F If valves and level of carbs' float and fuel supply are OK and spark plugs are new and air filter is clear and cooling system is OK and choke is closing all the way and chain is properly lubricated and brakes release completely, next I would verify compression and leaks. http://www.dansmc.com/compression_test.htm http://www.dansmc.com/leakdown.htm Yes, ..... many things to check, ....hope you can find the culprit.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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September 7th, 2013, 09:56 PM | #8 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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Sounds like this thread - http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147395
My reply would be the same here as it was there (#19). Basically - you are bogging the engine - downshift. |
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September 7th, 2013, 10:09 PM | #9 | |
wat
Name: wat
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Quote:
i don't like burns
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September 7th, 2013, 10:49 PM | #10 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: 81
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Ok thanks guys, I'm going out there tomorrow to do some new experiments.
I also notice something when riding at 4th gear at high RPM today (about 8k) I sometimes feel like the engine is not giving consistent power, like the power would would switch on and off very fast, and this made me shake slightly forward and back on my seat, but this only happen about once or twice per ride and never last more than 10 seconds or so. I notice that this happen usually during the first 15 minutes of start up, but after I been riding for half hours or more it would never happen again. |
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September 8th, 2013, 07:25 AM | #11 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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Quote:
Make sure the gas is fresh 87 octane. You could add 1 oz per gal of a strong intake cleaner like Techron Concentrate to the next tank and see if you get any improvement. I don't think there is any serious problem. |
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September 8th, 2013, 09:24 AM | #12 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: 81
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Just got back from riding, and I think the problem is getting worse.
When going uphill the engine power flickers every 1 seconds or so, as a result, I feel like the G force is shifting back and forward, this problem occurs as well as during the first 15 minutes of flat ground riding, but after 15 minutes the engine won't flick on flat ground, but still flicks going up hill. I also hear this sound when the RPM is high, it is like.... click click click in very high vibrations coming from the engine sometimes, as if there is a metal bit stuck inside somewhere. The problem is sometimes I hear the sound and sometimes I don't, I know this is not normal. I think maybe there is metal piece inside the oil, the bike have 350 miles so far and still in break in period, and I changed oil when it was 100 miles. I think there might be metal pieces in the oil, I will change it tomorrow to see if the problem goes away. Also when I let go of the handle bar, it start to wobble very fast. Maybe wheel is out of alignment? |
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September 8th, 2013, 09:33 AM | #13 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
(Hope you did wear your gloves for touching them). Try not starting the crazy and endless process of guessing. We have shown you a method of discarding possible causes and changing the oil is not there. If you have metal in the oil, it will not pass the filter and there is no way you could hear. What you describe is either one cylinder missing firing intermittently or marginal fuel supply or valves too closed or autoignition (it sounds like loose metal when you open the throttle at low speeds). Besides the previous advices, check that the connections to both spark coils are solidly attached.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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September 8th, 2013, 10:08 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Justin
Location: Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.
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I only put 87 octane in my tank once and the engine knocked under decel. I read in the owners manual 91 minimum so I've always used 93....
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Mods: Offset clutch pressure plate |
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September 8th, 2013, 10:10 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: 81
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Cylinder is this white metal thing that I circled right? If so, both lift and right side seems to be of equal temperature.
Also I only put 91 octane in the tank. |
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September 8th, 2013, 10:21 AM | #16 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Again, you may be able to find some local Ninjette member willing to check your problem first hand. Where are you located at? These are the cylinders' heads, where the combustion happens and heat is generated:
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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September 8th, 2013, 11:41 AM | #17 |
not an actual panda
Name: dan
Location: philadelphia
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250, 2009 CBR600RR (Sold) Posts: A lot.
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Couldn't he spit on the exhaust? Each cylinder vents into a separate header right?
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September 8th, 2013, 11:53 AM | #18 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
I believe that the OP has a complicate problem or group of problems and little experience to troubleshoot it effectively. The only way to do it is testing and eliminating possibilities systematically. I have insisted on the misfiring because the engine is exceptionally weak while not fully bogging or dying, although I may be wrong and other important factors as carburetor, electrical, valves or compression may be making some contribution. A experienced rider may be able of detecting the problem(s) easily by just observing how the bike sounds and behaves. This is OP's first bike; it is very hard for him to know what is going on.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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September 8th, 2013, 11:58 AM | #19 | |
sail away
Name: Jon
Location: San Jose
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Quote:
Where are you located?
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September 8th, 2013, 12:58 PM | #20 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: 81
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I am located in the general Los Angeles area. It would be great if I can take the bike to someone to help me take a look at it.
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September 8th, 2013, 01:51 PM | #21 |
ninjette.org member
Name: ninja
Location: LAND OF OZ
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2002 ninja 250 Posts: 100
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Only 300 mile on it, was it stored for awhile?---if so check spark for ignition(maybe running on one cylinder) also (see if plugs are wet) then check carbs or have a shop check it out for you. just a shot
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September 8th, 2013, 08:04 PM | #22 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
87 octane is all you need. Any more octane than required gives you less power and mileage. Go up in octane only if you need to get away from Ethanol. 87 w/o Ethanol will be the best if you can get it. |
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September 8th, 2013, 08:10 PM | #23 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
If that is the case, there's a good chance the carbs need to be taken apart and cleaned because of varnish build-up if it wasn't properly stored the entire time. Also look inside the tank and see if there is rust. You may have rust partially blocking a screen and the fuel flow. Check the tire pressure if you haven't recently. Make sure there's nothing under the seat blocking the intake snorkel. |
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September 19th, 2013, 06:28 PM | #24 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: 81
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Just want to give a final update.
Today I finally solve the problem, my Ninja no longer jolts with uneven power output when I accelerates. I took the bike to a local motorcycle repair shop, and I show the problem to the mechanic who speaks no English, I had someone translate my problem to him, he rev the engine once and then told me "spark plugs", he said one or more spark plugs is not functioning correctly. So I went on ebay, spend 6 dollar brought a pair of NGK spark plug as well as the Ninja 250 tool kit (40 dollar ), I was finally able to took out the spark plug and I notice the burn pattern on one is a lot less darker than the other, after I replace it I took it for a test drive and the acceleration was very smooth, however the clicking noise remains, but it does not effect the performance. Since the bike just reached 500 miles, I'll wait a while until it is fully break in to do a valve adjustment or something. All is well |
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September 19th, 2013, 09:04 PM | #25 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Zach
Location: Colorado Springs
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 96 Ninja 250EX , 87 CBR 1000, 86 TRX 260R, 86 KXT 250, 84 ATC 200X, 82 ATC 250R (w/CR480) Posts: 134
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Good to hear u got it going ... BUT.... Like stated before there could be other problems here... Bear with me but if you pulled the plugs and one is considerably darker than other and your bike was running like crap... The problem goes beyond just a spark plug issue... New plugs will only be a bandaid for another issue and will likely fail in the future possibly leaving you stranded....
Here is my opinion.. For some reason your plugs are showing two different fuel conditions... The symptoms of either a spark or fuel issue ... The fact of age of your bike and low mileage leads me to believe its a fuel issue... I'd start as a bare minimum pulling inspecting and thuroughly cleaning the carbs... .. If you choose to do so it can be done with basic hand tools a ziplock or gladware plastic bowl , few cans of carb cleaner and a little compressed air... Pull inspect, and clean carbs reinstall ... Run it around the block a few times rip it up and down the Main Street put 10 - 15 miles on it bring it back pull the plugs and check the color you want to have them both look the same |
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