Loud Pipes Save Lives?

[TheJimmyEnglish]

Loud pipes are for Harley's and squids. I purchased an MGP Growler. Ran it for a week. It's currently for sale.

[adri99an]

Originally Posted by Alex

Read the thread from the beginning, all the points have been made. I'm fine, but will not let a "loud pipes save lives" comment go by on this board without correcting folks. It's right up there with "I had to lay it down" and "what helmet?" in the trifecta of silly motorcyclist beliefs that just won't die.

It will here.

What is it you're correcting Alex?

Your opinion is just as valuable as anyone elses on this forum. Whether it's right or wrong or weird or childish or stupid or whatever people think it is.

[Cuongism]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

I agree with adrian, even if it saves me from one then Its worth it. Maybe that lady wouldnt have side swiped me if she heard me next to her

Sorry Kevin, but this is where the error comes into play. Instead of thinking a loud pipe will save you in that accident, it should be why you placed yourself in that situation. Also, even if your pipe was louder, chances are they still won't hear you since the sound is behind you, not next to you.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by adri99an

What is it you're correcting Alex?

Have you really not read the thread? Or are you just trolling?

Originally Posted by adri99an

Your opinion is just as valuable as anyone elses on this forum. Whether it's right or wrong or weird or childish or stupid or whatever people think it is.

This is off-base as well. Everyone's opinion has the ability to become valuable, true. But over time, those opinions that are patently false, wrong-headed, illogical, and just downright silly usually get exposed.

[TFKninja]

Very Interesting, The Experienced are on the ball, Some people are just bias and just loud pipe haters, I bought an after market pipe a few weeks back just before my crash and yes I sold the Idea to the MRS that it will be safer being louder, and she agreed as she has been driving in her car and gone to change lanes to suddenly have a bike appear. At the end of the day it's a contributer to safety, anything that enhances human senses will. but to what extreme. I had my pipe on for about 1 day before I got sick of it, I was hoping it would grow on me, I definately got more attention. in cars and pedestrians, but they all look at you with that " what a #$%@" look. I put my old pipe back on and prefered that. Now I have munted my OEM in the crash and to replace that is twice the price of even the most expensive aftermarket pipe. So I am now looking into removable baffles or finding a way to silence my After market pipe. I also will have to mod the rest of the bike to suit it now. My bike ran better on the OEM. Loud is safer but the issue of being public enemy number 1 out weighs it when you got neighbours throwing bricks at you. Just riding safer is better.

[adri99an]

Trolling this hot topic since 2010

do people buy an exhaust because they want to be heard....depends

do people buy an exhaust because it will save their life.....I hope not

are loud pipes annoying...why yes they are but man they sound nice in 4th gear

do they save lives...no..... and yes (depends on one's life experience)

is safe driving the key....of course

do people rely on ther pipe as a safety factor....hope not

will the safest driver in the world ever get hit....probably

what if that same driver had a loud ass exhaust that annoyed everyone on the block and started legislation in Washington DC.....maybe not on that day because the cager heard him (and of course that's a maybe)

I will continue to troll as Alex put it.....

Where's Bobby Brown these days?

Lastly.....
if you have an exhaust and found out that a cager heard you and was about to turn into you or pull out in front of you or get in your lane.....but ALL this was avoided because they heard you..they heard that stupid loud noise maker....how would you feel about exhausts then?

Yep.

Opinions...brewing since the beginning of mankind

[Johnnyscoots]

Two bikes. One a cruiser, Vance & Hines Slash Cut Staggereds. The other, the Ninjette with the 2 Bros Slip on. Both are, as you can imagine, louder than the stock bikes. I have had MANY close calls with both, whether stock muffled or aftermarket muffled. Blared the horn, flipped up the face shield and cursed til Satan blushed with shame. STILL have close calls. Morons merging onto 222 South, 283 West, PA Turnpike, you name it, it seems their intent is to merge INTO as many bikes as possible. Moroffs at T-intersections, only looking one way (left) before they gun it and nearly turn my Ninjette and I into a two dimensional representation of a 250cc bike and rider. Even with the deeper, throatier lungs the 2 Bros provides does not stop them. I have had T-intersection situations where the morons and moroffs LOOKED RIGHT AT ME and still gunned it to save that 0.000045445790 seconds by nearly doing the 2 dimensional thing to me and the Ninjette. I have learned that I need to approach these situations defensively because a 380lb bike and 160lb rider are no match for a 3000lb unattentive, motorized, battering ram. Slow down, LOOK THEM IN THE EYE, and proceed cautiously. I now always assume that they are out to kill me...or at least they want a 2 dimensional art project...A Man and His Bike in Blood Red...

Johnny

[Shaol1n Monk]

yea, theres never going to be an end to this thread and some people just dont want to acknowledge other peoples valid opinions and experiences so rather than get aggravated im prob gonna unsubscribe to this thread now.

speaking on MY behalf: i was nearly hit by a car 2 times in the same week with my stock exhaust by women switching lanes. since switching to an MGP i have not had any situations like that. has the exhaust saved my life? maybe, maybe not. but i like a bike that sounds like a bike and i would rather be seen and heard and if there was a smell i could attach to my bike to help people know i was there i'd do that too.

yes, safe riding and constant awareness are my responsibility and the best way to go, but it cant hurt to wear a bright green jacket and sound like a motorcycle when riding either. and the stock exhaust on a 250 does NOT sound like a motorcycle.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Shaol1n Monk

why do i have such a loud pipe????
like bobby brown said:
"ITS MY PREROGATIVE!"

Yes it is. And although I personally don't like your loud pipe, I don't want you to loose it. In fact, it makes me a little bit happy that you are enjoying your loud pipe, just because you can. However..... as you enjoy your loud pipe, please do so in a [reasonably] sensitive manner (you won't be able to please everyone though). Regardless of which side of the issue people are on, as long as they respect the other, we are a lot less likely to loose our rights to loud pipes, freedoms of speech, guns, etc., etc.

Case in point: Right now in CA a SMALL group of people decided to protest by exercising their right to open-carry handguns. It isn't the fact that they did this, it is the WAY that they did this, and sought to rub it in the faces of those who don't like it that is problematic (details aren't important for the purposes of this thread).... now guess what - There is now legislation in CA to revoke the right to "open-carry." This was pretty obvious to most responsible gun owners in CA, but the small group wouldn't listen to reason, and ruined it for everyone.

So.... enjoy your pipe, and I appreciate the fact that you also respect me by backing off on the throttle a little bit when you pass my house at midnight.

[Shaol1n Monk]

Originally Posted by headshrink

So.... enjoy your pipe, and I appreciate the fact that you also respect me by backing off on the throttle a little bit when you pass my house at midnight.

absolutely! when i get home after working friday or saturday nites at 230-3AM my neighborhood is quiet and i throttle down and cut the engine asap when parking.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Shaol1n Monk

absolutely! when i get home after working friday or saturday nites at 230-3AM my neighborhood is quiet and i throttle down and cut the engine asap when parking.

I was actually thinking specifically of 2 neighbors when I left my comment. Both have loud pipes (probably HDs), and both are mature enough to respect the neighborhood when they leave for work at 2-3 in the am, but I didn't know one was a fellow Ninjette member

[Cuongism]

That's good to hear at least. Where I live, there's about 20 motorcycles in our covered parking lot. Everyone is fairly considerate, but there is this one person who wails on it exiting the lot and sets off about 30 car alarms.

I work at 5 am so I keep my rpms below 5k until I'm a mile out of the residential area.

[greatwhiteninja]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaHooligan

Theres loud and then theres "LOUD" as hell. Straight pipes are taking it too another level on an inline four but I don't see any thing wrong with after market pipes, in fact I love them. If your running a 250, you def need a slip on. The 250 sounds like a blender and you cant hear it worth a damn.

The 250 is ridicously loud straight piped with aftermarket head pipes .. HUGE diff over straight piped with stock head pipes LOL but back on topic I like loud , ride with harleys and they have drag pipes so.. my exhaust is louder then most 250's

[KJohnson21]

Originally Posted by adri99an

are loud pipes annoying...

Yes, so annoying that California has a new law making them illegal.

[ninja250]

They were yanking me for exhausts back in my Integra LS days in 02-03.
Such a good throaty deep tone. Mmmmmm. 'teggy. I missss youuuu

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by KJohnson21

Yes, so annoying that California has a new law making them illegal.

Just what we need... another REDUNDANT law. It would be nice if law makers researched EXISTING laws before burdoning the public with yet another.

BTW: If you live in Folsom, CA the PD won't touch your pipe. I think I mentioned this earlier, but they have literally said so. There are a few loud pipes here, but they really aren't a problem.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by ninja250

They were yanking me for exhausts back in my Integra LS days in 02-03.
Such a good throaty deep tone. Mmmmmm. 'teggy. I missss youuuu

Back in 02-03!???? To me, that is a NEW car! lol

[adri99an]

Originally Posted by KJohnson21

Yes, so annoying that California has a new law making them illegal.

I've been "hearing" this for years. Where is it at in legislation?

[Alex]

It was signed into law by the Governator last September. Goes into effect Jan 1, 2013, so it's a little ways out.

link on SportRider's site

Search on SB435 for any number of other articles on it.

[headshrink]

"The noise pollution caused by illegally modified motorcycle exhaust systems is a major quality of life issue across the state," SB 435's author, Sen. Fran Pavley (D-Santa Monica), said in a news release issued Monday. "Basic common sense and decency dictates that when a motorcycle drives by and sets off every car alarm on the street, that is too loud.”

Read more: http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_1...#ixzz1VGchXZ8i


Can you imagine making this type of statement in court? There isn't a newly graduated lawyer alive that wouldn't make you look like an idiot.... and yet these are the people writting our laws.

[Alex]

Seriously? You don't think if you lined up 20 random people you yanked out of a grocery store and asked them the same question, a majority of them wouldn't agree with that thought? The average Joe (or Jane) already leans anti-motorcycle, there's no denying that. Arguing that motorcycles *shouldn't* be held to reasonable noise standards along with other vehicles isn't a winning argument, no matter which lawyer is on deck.

Of course there are already enough laws on the books for people to choose to enforce or not enforce, so it remains to be seen if this new one will have a large, small, or no effect on what motorcyclists choose to do with their exhausts on 2013+ bikes.

[Snake]

Noise limits and the altering of vehicle exhaust for both cages and bikes is allready covered under federal law and is not enforced. Would making it a state law make it easier for the state to enforce?

[headshrink]

No, I'm not saying the average Joe wouldn't agree. I'm saying a law-maker should be held to a higher standard than justifying his bill based on insane exaggerations like his "quality of life" statement, or sweeping generalizations about setting off "every car alarm." In normal, casual conversation.... OK, but not when you have power and responsibility like that. Even if I were a law-maker, which I am clearly not, I would be pissed because those types of statement continue to marginalize the "profession" (term used as loose as possible). We all know that loud pipes don't significantly affect the "quality of life." Cancer affects quality of life. Homelessness affects quality of life, and legislators affect quality of life, but a momentary annoyance does NOT affect quality of like. And although they may set off some car alarms, the really loud ones may set off more than one, but not EVERY car alarm. I have NEVER in my life even heard more than 2 or 3 car alarms at the same time. That is just insane, manipulative, and intellectually dishonest rhetoric.

And notice, I'm not defending loud pipes.... as I stated before, I personally don't like them.

[Skippii]

[Jinx250]

Originally Posted by Snake

Noise limits and the altering of vehicle exhaust for both cages and bikes is allready covered under federal law and is not enforced. Would making it a state law make it easier for the state to enforce?

The federal rules are not "law" in the sense you're thinking. The FMVSS are a set of standards imposed on manufacturers. They have no true force of law on an individual, and are not available for use in that regard.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

The federal rules are not "law" in the sense you're thinking. The FMVSS are a set of standards imposed on manufacturers. They have no true force of law on an individual, and are not available for use in that regard.

It may just be a local thing but we have other noise limits on the books here too... I think if your radio can be heard 20-something feet away, you can be cited. I'm not sure if that is limited to sound systems or not, this was to combat all the thumping.... that was impacting our "quality of life."

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by Cuongism

Sorry Kevin, but this is where the error comes into play. Instead of thinking a loud pipe will save you in that accident, it should be why you placed yourself in that situation. Also, even if your pipe was louder, chances are they still won't hear you since the sound is behind you, not next to you.

Oh trust me, I understand that, I'm just saying maybe should would have heard me

I say my statement again. If it saves me from ONE crash, then its worth it

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Cuongism

That's good to hear at least. Where I live, there's about 20 motorcycles in our covered parking lot. Everyone is fairly considerate, but there is this one person who wails on it exiting the lot and sets off about 30 car alarms.

I work at 5 am so I keep my rpms below 5k until I'm a mile out of the residential area.

i didn't know we lived in the same complex?!

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

I say my statement again. If it saves me from ONE crash, then its worth it

It won't; it's not.

If people just stated they like the way the pipes look, sound, and in some cases perform, there would be much less eye-rolling. Playing them off as a safety improvement (in any manner whatsoever) is just silly.

[headshrink]

I'll go first.

I love the way my AreaP QC looks.
I like the way may AreaP QC sounds when compared with stock exhaust.
I choose the AreaP QC because of other's (and manufacturer's) claims of increased performance.
Making extra loud noise does not make me feel good, but gives me more of a sense of isolation, as MOST non-MCs also don't like loud pipes (I would rather be friends).
I specifically chose the QC because I didn't want to be TOO loud (added db was merely a compromise with performance).

But you probably meant people who prefer loud pipes

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by Cuongism

Sorry Kevin, but this is where the error comes into play. Instead of thinking a loud pipe will save you in that accident, it should be why you placed yourself in that situation. Also, even if your pipe was louder, chances are they still won't hear you since the sound is behind you, not next to you.

Originally Posted by Alex

It won't; it's not.

If people just stated they like the way the pipes look, sound, and in some cases perform, there would be much less eye-rolling. Playing them off as a safety improvement (in any manner whatsoever) is just silly.

it will... Seriously you cant tell me that ONE person hasent heard my bike, and possibly didn't hit me? Thats just asinine

And I love the way my Area P looks, performs, and sounds

[caps]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

it will... Seriously you cant tell me that ONE person hasent heard my bike, and possibly didn't hit me? Thats just asinine

And I love the way my Area P looks, performs, and sounds

I actually had someone tell me at a stop light last night that they would have merged into me if my bike didnt, and I quote, "Sound so annoying"

[EsrTek]

Sorry to dis-agree but anything that adds to you being noticed does help.
Louder pipes do contribute to an overall goal.

This whole thread where some to want to take it literal that loud pipes directly effect 'saving lives' is crap. You might as well be arguing Yellow reflective vest 'save lives' too. It is the same argument!

Can either have a direct effect on the saving of a life if crashed, hell no!!!

Do they both play a vital part in making/getting you more noticed, which *may* keep you safer then if you had neither in same situation... hell YES!!!!

**note I never said either of these are 100% fool proof or will save you from every moron on road, but if they make 1 of those cagers notice you instead of hitting you then they work and should be used.**

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

Sorry to dis-agree but anything that adds to you being noticed does help.
Louder pipes do contribute to an overall goal.

This whole thread where some to want to take it literal that loud pipes directly effect 'saving lives' is crap. You might as well be arguing Yellow reflective vest 'save lives' too. It is the same argument!

Can either have a direct effect on the saving of a life if crashed, hell no!!!

Do they both play a vital part in making/getting you more noticed, which *may* keep you safer then if you had neither in same situation... hell YES!!!!

**note I never said either of these are 100% fool proof or will save you from every moron on road, but if they make 1 of those cagers notice you instead of hitting you then they work and should be used.**

Thank you sir!!

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

it will... Seriously you cant tell me that ONE person hasent heard my bike, and possibly didn't hit me? Thats just asinine

I can, and just did. You pass thousands and thousands of cars a year. Some might hear you coming, some might not. Some might swerve towards a noise. Some might swerve away. Most will be affected in no way whatsoever. CHP motor officers complain that people don't hear their sirens.

Believing that a louder pipe is going to have any measurable safety benefit on whether that particular car you're worried about right in front or right next of you is going to do something silly, is simply false. You need to ride 100% of the time as if the other driver is deaf/dumb/blind/uncoordinated, has no idea you're there no matter what clues you give off, and quite possibly might have homicidal tendencies.

You'll realize this sooner, or you'll realize this later.

[coondog]

Originally Posted by ithaca00

I'll take a perfectly silent bike please.

Loud pipes are like those $5 deer horns. Neither do anything to prevent people from ruining your day.

No decibels, no forward movement. But I agree in as quiet as possible and still providing performance I need on track/street. Right now my bike is loud and having ridden it that way for awhile including track and straight time/mph runs I can't wait to put my stockers back on, even putting my original carbs set et. al. Just keeping it naked she will outperform anything past 07 anyway.

[headshrink]

Just for fun, lets go to the opposite extreme for a moment.... what do you guys think of the electric motorcycles? I think there is a small company that might produce these, but I have seen several youtube videos of electric project motorcycles. Do you think these extremely quiet bikes are more dangerous than a stock bike? Although I am not in the loud pipe camp, I have to admit the idea of a virtually silent bike does make me a little uneasy.
I saw a related report about 9 months or so ago about I THINK a European country pushing to force electric and hybrid cars to add an artificial noise maker. They were primarily concerned with blind people, I think, and I don't remember if they reported any actual incidents..... although a silent vehicle makes me a little uneasy, adding a noise-maker just doesn't sit right. The prototype made these awful electronic noises. I do think, however, that if in the future all cars, or most cars, where silent, people would adapt by watching a little closer where they are going/walking.

[gfloyd2002]

There are a quite a number of electric motorcycles and mopeds in China, where I lived for several years. There are some issues with pedestrians stepping out not expecting them because of the quiet, and the disabled community is unhappy about them. It would suck if you are blind. But the concerns are limited to pedestrians. I never heard any issue (heh, never heard) related to motorycle/moped/car interactions.

I rode a friend's electric a few times, and never really had an issue with cars. It makes sense because as a car driver, I pretty much saw the electric bikes before I would have heard them anyway, and there is so gosh darn much general traffic noise that you really couldn't tell the difference between the electric and the gas ones anyway. That was about how is was as a rider, too.

[alex.s]

priuses (priora?) are the preferred vehicle for drive-bys... can't be heard.

i was at the gas station the other day and was seriously startled by a prius that pulled up next to me that i didn't hear... no car there, turned around for a second and then BAM. car there. i jumped a little... i think the guy laughed at me for it... i felt kinda stupid.

with that said, i firmly believe that there is a large amount of the population that drives their cars with not only their hearing impaired (blasting music, talking on the phone, talking to someone in the car, literally deaf which is legal to drive with, plenty of other situations) but they drive with their intelligence impaired. people in cars are stupid. they may be peace prize winners in theoretical physics, but when they get behind that wheel, they turn into cousin skeeter trying to figure the difference between his boogers and his dingle berries, and which you can eat. if you don't want to get hit by them, drive with the assumption that if you get within smashing distance of them, they will actively try to smash into you. if you treat everyone like they want to kill you, things like them hearing you become a requirement of the past... because they never hear you. they never see you. and lord knows they never stop after they hit you unless there's someone there to chase them down.

when people say things like "if you need them to hear you, you've already failed" they mean to say, "if you put yourself in the situation where they can hit you, regardless of if they can or can't hear you, you fail"

[adri99an]

I just purchased 2 more "pipes"

One in case the big one hits..... and one to keep under my pillow in case of an intruder.