Any web developers/App coders?

[Aggrotech]

Finally decided what i want to do and thats becoming a web developer. I'll be goin to city college for a degree in the near future and will also be practicing it at home. On the side id also like to learn how to make mobile apps (specifically games) to test the waters in teh app store.

Sadly I don't personally know any coders and was hoping there'd be a couple people on here that could help with small tips and even show what theyve made. I Recently started codecademy along with khan academy and im willing to learn as much as possible. D:

[rasta]

Funny you would bring this up, coding is something I've been really thinking about doing. Myself and a few buddies are thinking of starting this website, which is going to hard...because none of us know how to code lol.

What are your initial impressions of codeacademy?

[Aggrotech]

Originally Posted by rasta

Funny you would bring this up, coding is something I've been really thinking about doing. Myself and a few buddies are thinking of starting this website, which is going to hard...because none of us know how to code lol.

What are your initial impressions of codeacademy?

ridiculously easy. I'm doin Java right now and on the left it gives comments then instructions on what to do, you simply do it and once you do it correctly you move on. If youre stuck theres a hint button that gives you the example version of what needs to be applied to the task ur currently on, so it doesnt completely give you the answer but the template that needs to be applied.

I'm sure if i had other people doin this with me it'd be that much easier to learn.

[csmith12]

I have been a codeslinger for about 20yrs now. It's an industry that is competitive, fast paced and always changing.

[rasta]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I have been a codeslinger for about 20yrs now. It's an industry that is competitive, fast paced and always changing.

Go on...

[csmith12]

Anything specific you want to know? Starting with a C based language is a good thing. The basic language structure of C, C++, C#, Java and JavaScript are all basically the same. If's, else's, for's, foreach's ect... ect... ect... are all basically the same no matter the language. Once you get a handle on language structure, learn OOP. And for god sake, know the difference between high cohesion and low coupling. Sometimes when I am brought in on a project that already has a good start, I will delete more lines of code than I add.

In the development game there are so many shiny objects that can take your eye of the goal. So many different technologies that solve the same problems, so many different platforms to support that each have their quirks.

On some of the multiyear projects that I have been on, the technology platform we chose for the project goes stale or outdated before the project is done. For example; my current project is scraping college web based ATS systems for job posting data and syndicating it. We chose the MS .net platform for the codebase. While .net is not outdated some of the admin screens that I worked up at the time are MVC 2, which is now a couple of versions old. The next major release had to be complete reworked to support MVC 4 w/ razor views and some bits of HTML 5.

Projects get even more interesting when you have to support multiple media types. FLV, AVI and various types of audio files.

Overall, there are 2 major rules to being a good software developer. Be lazy, because someone will change their minds and knowing when to NOT write code, because there are NO bugs in code that doesn't exist.

[csmith12]

Some examples of projects I have been a part of or lead;

http://www.sweetsinbloom.com/
http://www.celinedionbeauty.com/
http://www.faithandtimfragrances.com/mcgraw
http://www.kikkomanusa.com/index.html
http://www.bayer.com/
http://www.diageo.com/en-row/Pages/default.aspx (different liquor brand sites and contests)

Many more over the years...

[csmith12]

Your gunna want at least 2 screens connected to your computer as well.

[rasta]

Thanks for the input, really great stuff! We're looking at starting a specific social media site, so it'll definitely have to support all sorts of media. In your personal estimation, do you think it's feasible for someone to learn enough about coding in a matter of months to take on that kind of project? Also, how much (ballpark) might it cost to hire someone such as yourself to develop the site?

[csmith12]

Months??? No, not really. There are many moving parts besides the coding that go into hosting and managing a site. Between security, scalability and many, many, many other hats you will have to where, your gunna need help somewhere along the way. And don't forget marketing the site. Long gone are the days "if you build it, they will come." But if you recognize your small and stay within that playground AND provide great customer service, you could carve a happy niche with very minimal resources. Ask Alex, this forum is a perfect example.

I bill myself out somewhere between $175 - $250 per hour or do signed contracts for 6 or more months starting at 10k per month. I am not a cheap date lol. I am not above doing pro bono work for projects that I ethically believe in, such as missing persons (1800thelost) and animal rescue (SPCA).

Pro Tip* - Take your pro bono work hours off on your taxes as charity.

Of course that leads us to outsourcing. Outsourcing is the main issue web developers run into while trying to work in the field. However, it may be beneficial to someone in your shoes who may need tasks completed a la carte, budget or contract limitations. Non US based workers normally work at considerably cheaper rates.

[rasta]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Months??? No, not really. There are many moving parts besides the coding that go into hosting and managing a site. Between security, scalability and many, many, many other hats you will have to where, your gunna need help somewhere along the way. And don't forget marketing the site. Long gone are the days "if you build it, they will come." But if you recognize your small and stay within that playground AND provide great customer service, you could carve a happy niche with very minimal resources. Ask Alex, this forum is a perfect example.

I bill myself out somewhere between $175 - $250 per hour or do signed contracts for 6 or more months starting at 10k per month. I am not a cheap date lol. I am not above doing pro bono work for projects that I ethically believe in, such as missing persons (1800thelost) and animal rescue (SPCA).

Pro Tip* - Take your pro bono work hours off on your taxes as charity.

Of course that leads us to outsourcing. Outsourcing is the main issue web developers run into while trying to work in the field. However, it may be beneficial to someone in your shoes who may need tasks completed a la carte, budget or contract limitations. Non US based workers normally work at considerably cheaper rates.

Ahh thanks for the advice, gives me realistic expectations. Marketing would be my main duty, as I wasted 4 years of my life studying it . I knew the idea was a stretch from the very beginning, as none of us have any coding experience. My friends are (obviously) underestimating the intellectual resources needed to execute such deliverables. I want to show them really how difficult it will be for novices to code a site like that, but if they don't realize it now, perhaps they simply don't want to believe. Whoever said, "You can do anything you believe in," should be punished for spreading lies. Takes much more than a belief.

As much as I hate the principle of outsourcing, it definitely has its place. I will have to do some research to see what, if any, sort of security issues arise when you outsource something like that.

[csmith12]

I don't want to sound too discouraging, everyone starts somewhere. You can accomplish quite a bit with a 3 or 4 months of hard core studies and practical practice at coding. You young cats pick up stuff so fast. There is a wealth of example bits on the web/youtube to use as example, so getting started is not as hard as it used to be.

I got my start a long time ago by doing perl mailer scripts for online forms, since back then... hardly anyone used databases and such. It took me about a month to be confident with it and get my first gig that payed a whopping $50. lol After that, it took me just shy of 2 years to build on my skillz to be hireable as a full time developer. It was about that time, that I felt I could realistically build something that had legs.

Also, it seems that in this "instant perfection" world we live in, companies have forgotten how to grow into themselves. There is nothing really wrong with supporting the core features and adding them on in due time.

Are you making a new dating sight called bikersonly.com? lol

[rasta]

No, you weren't being too discouraging at all. Like I said, realistic.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread Justin...but at least Chris gave some good information that you might find useful

[alex.s]

i started programming when i was about 7. it was what i did with most of my time through my teenage years. i took every single computer science class my college offered. i have been professionally programming for almost 10 years now. game industry for 6 years. some of the people i know make me look like i'm a child playing with toys. so don't underestimate when chris talks about competition. it's not an easy job to do. yes, there is no physical aspect to it outside of being able to make yourself comfortable sitting and typing for hours on end every day. but if you're like us, and the tiny details of intricate machines, and the process of understanding and making better is something that you enjoy, then go for it. computers are the future. C/C++ isn't going anywhere for a long time.

some suggestions;
- get good at math. programming is basically just a fancy calculator moving data around. knowing how to efficiently do calculations means you can do more with less.
- learn programming and computer concepts first, before trying to learn a specific language.
- after you are comfortable with general programming concepts, learn several programming languages at the same time. c++, basic, and javascript would be a good sample set
- avoid java, and all garbage collection for that matter. or if you have to use it, use it sparingly, or as a last resort.

after you're a pro coder and want to make some sweet gamez, as a beginner you probably want to start with an engine someone else has made. maybe try using flash at first, or if you are daring maybe unity, or UDK. after you have made your angrybirds clone, start reading about what you are actually doing in the engine. read about opengl, how audio works on different platforms, how games package their data and deliver it. if you have any questions when you get to this point feel free to ask. also, don't trust those idiots at gamedev.net