August 24th, 2018, 09:26 PM | #1 |
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Name: Bradley
Location: Dayton, Ohio.
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Mental block?
For some reason I have zero difficulty making left turns even at fairly aggressive (to me anyway) speeds, right turns however are another story I just cannot seem to lean the bike as hard nor turn as sharply or smoothly I am good up to about 30mph then right becomes scary even on roads I know perfectly having driven them in cars 100 times plus. An example is a curve on a particular road I run at 45 ish westbound (left curve) but eastbound (right curve) I drop to near 30. What am I doing wrong? Mental block? Or do these ninjas run better left?
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August 25th, 2018, 03:30 AM | #2 |
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Mental block. Tips:
- Be mindful of tension. Relax. You should be able to flap your elbows (do the "chicken dance"). You should never have a death grip on the bars. You can literally operate a motorcycle with your fingertips. - Lift your vision. Look farther down the road... everything will appear to slow down for you. You go where you look, just like a horse.
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August 25th, 2018, 04:21 AM | #3 |
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Being of the lean and lanky persuasion elbow flapping is easy arms are all floppy floppy. Grip is usually just thumb and index finger but these have little to do with tension in the sense I am experiencing it. I’ve been on the motorcycle for under a month so tension is prevelant in my shoulderblades. Looking where I want to go I am in the process of learning looking down is something I hate doing because I start lane drifting so I avoid it. And horses? Really? Those 8-1200 lb smelly barely controlled balls of madness? (A joke i never learned how to ride a horse)
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August 25th, 2018, 04:51 AM | #4 |
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The flappy elbows thing is just to remind you to relax overall. If you feel any tension, anywhere, you're doing it wrong.
A lot of this game is in your head. It's about having confidence in the bike and your ability to place it where you want it to be. You're slowing way down because you lack that confidence. You're also tensing up in your shoulders because you lack that confidence. It's a safe bet that now you've got it in your head that turning right is harder, it'll continue to be harder until you're able to get past that. And it's all in your mind... the bike doesn't behave any differently turning one way vs. the other. It'll get better with time, don't worry. There's this one little corner near me that I once took fast enough to give me a jolt of adrenaline... felt like I was going to run off and I puckered right up. Every time I go through there I remember that ride. Now I do it a whole lot faster and just laugh. If I were a squid I could probably double my speed through there relative to that day. Next time you go for a ride, as you go through corners think about your hands. How tight are you, really? Be mindful of this and really focus on what's actually going on vs. your overall beliefs. I ask this because if you're tight on the bars, you're applying an unnecessary input to the bike. You're fighting it. If you're fighting the bike, well, sure it's not going to want to turn. My bike is smarter than I am. Once I give it the correct initial input, it will happily track through the corner all by itself. Anything I do after that just upsets things.
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August 25th, 2018, 04:57 AM | #5 |
2-18 wheels
Name: Bradley
Location: Dayton, Ohio.
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What I am hearing in a nutshell correct me if I am wrong is. 1 relax everything above hip level. 2 trust the machine it doesn’t care left or right.
I’ll check back in a few hours it’s time for me to head to the MSF course where I intend on learning the things and stuff. And having fun that’s important too. Thanks for the help sir.
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August 25th, 2018, 06:03 AM | #6 |
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Yes. But why from the hip up only? Chill overall.
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August 25th, 2018, 08:09 AM | #7 | |
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Quote:
Mr. Fist has started you on the right path. Visual skills will guide you through any corner and good throttle control will complete the basic package to manage your concern with right handers. Look up, look far, find some markers and execute those markers at a comfortable entry speed. It is common for riders to prefer a side, left or right. Think about what is going on for the right side. HINT: the throttle is on that side, what else is on that side? What other input do you have to put into the bike to turn right? Overall, there is a lot of things going on to make a right turn. 1. You have to set entry speed - right side of bike 2. You have to manage the throttle + braking during downshifting - right side of bike 3. You have to manage the rear brake (if used) - right side of bike 4. You have to turn your head to the right 5. You have to push the right bar to turn the bike It makes perfect sense that you currently prefer left turns over rights at your current skill level. Practice and it will feel better over time. Don't just practice in general, practice skills that will make you a better rider and your comfort with rights will come automatically. Good luck and enjoy your MSF class. ps... Always keep it fun!
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August 25th, 2018, 10:12 AM | #8 |
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Quick update lunch break at MSF. They told me basically the same about the various stuff on right side and we have had some good wheel time so far I am really enjoying this glad I got into a class this season. Re: relaxing from hip up I thought one was supposed to grip with knees rather tightly?
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August 25th, 2018, 10:58 AM | #9 |
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Only grip with your knees if you actually have to. Otherwise, relax any muscle you don't need in this minute to control the bike. I tend to hold tension in my quads and still have to consciously relax while riding. Gripping too hard for too long starts to hurt. And definitely hurts the next day.
I'm less confident about right turns than lefts, too, especially 90 degree corners in town. They're tighter than lefts, for one thing. So I tend to take a couple extra rights when I get home, to practice. Go around the block before going home. |
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August 25th, 2018, 06:28 PM | #10 | |
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Quote:
this thread speaks to me so much....I just dislike them from a stop
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August 25th, 2018, 09:08 PM | #11 |
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Grip with knees only on braking. In corners, I'm hanging off outside knee which is against tank. But everything's relaxed, inside leg/knee just kinda dangles. This is what I kinda do since I learned during that time-period.
Link to original page on YouTube. |
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August 25th, 2018, 09:47 PM | #12 |
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That's actually one of the things that is most beautiful about riding a bike, flowing through the corners. I can feel myself melding with it.... and it works so amazingly well....
If I remember to relax.... |
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August 26th, 2018, 02:21 AM | #13 |
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All good advice in this thread so far. Looking at your first post in another thread, it did seem as the bike needed a bit of TLC. If the rear tire was actually reversed, it's certainly possible the shop wasn't terribly concerned about aligning it either. If alignment was way off, it could cause the bike to feel more natural turning one way or the other. It would have to be way off, and this is unlikely compared to all of the other likely reasons listed above. But if you continue to gain skill and comfort, and the bike continues to feel somewhat strange, it might be worth re-aligning the rear wheel. If you do get that tire flipped around, make sure it's done well at that point.
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August 26th, 2018, 07:01 AM | #14 |
2-18 wheels
Name: Bradley
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Thanks for all the positive and helpful advice folks! Day 2 of MSF now as for my right turns I’ll be working them a little harder in the coming days not going to worry about them until I get better at friction zone and throttle control day 1 of MSF told me I am terrible at throttle and clutch. I tend to just whip it and let the clutch absorb the abuse of higher revs. On a side note the u turn box is an exercise in minor irritation
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August 26th, 2018, 11:24 AM | #15 |
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One of my favourite heroes, Jackie Stewart had great training technique on being smooth. Place ball on plate on dash and don't roll it off! Gotta try this with bike and see if it works too!
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August 26th, 2018, 11:41 AM | #16 |
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Stewart did a great driving instruction video for Ford back in the 80s, called "Behind the Wheel'. There was a cool bit where they attached a wide, shallow bowl to the hood of a car and put a ball in it.
Same idea. Do a slalom, including starting and stopping, and don't let the ball fall out. Sometimes when driving I think about that and try to stop so gently that if I had one of those on my car, the ball would still be in the bowl. You have to modulate your brake very carefully, reducing pressure as the car comes to a halt until you're barely touching them. Otherwise the car jerks a bit. The whole hour-long video is well worth watching (and has some great historical race footage), but the ball-and-dish bit starts at about 43:00
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August 26th, 2018, 02:06 PM | #17 |
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Let me know how the ball bowl idea on a bike works lol car I’m smooth after years in a semi it’s gentle. Other news I am now a MSF BRC grad with a perfect score for some reason I don’t totally feel I deserve.
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August 26th, 2018, 02:06 PM | #18 |
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Let me know how the ball bowl idea on a bike works lol car I’m smooth after years in a semi it’s gentle. Other news I am now a MSF BRC grad with a perfect score for some reason I don’t totally feel I deserve.
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August 26th, 2018, 04:48 PM | #19 |
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But above you said you tend to "whip it" re the throttle. That doesn't sound smooth....
On a 250 whacking the throttle open doesn't have much of an effect. On a bigger bike it can get you in a lot of trouble.
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August 26th, 2018, 06:30 PM | #20 |
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My apologies on my lack of clarification on the bike I tend to whip the throttle. in a car or semi I do not. It has a fair bit to do with the lack of throttle response on the bike likely due to me being used to fuel injected vehicles whereas a carb has a tiny delay and the state of the Bikes carbs I think maybe. A tear down is scheduled though that may turn into sending them away to someone more skilled than myself. Also also regarding throttle whipping it’s possible my “whipping” isn’t your definition from my perspective and vehicles I tend to drive I shift at 1.5k rpm so 5-7k rpm on the bike feels like whipping it after all that’s far past redline in the truck again sorry for the confusion maybe someday I will learn how to make myself understood better I have this problem of vagueness and overly complex explanations
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August 26th, 2018, 06:37 PM | #21 |
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These bikes like to be revved!
They begin to wake up at around 7k rpm... |
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August 26th, 2018, 07:04 PM | #22 |
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It's hard to get used to the high revs, and I still don't always feel comfortable with it, but especially on harder accelerations, it really does work better. If I'm getting a quick launch from a stoplight, I can let it rev to 11,000 or so before shifting.
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August 27th, 2018, 05:02 AM | #23 |
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Before you tear into the carbs take a look at your throttle linkage. There might be a lot of play in it.
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August 27th, 2018, 05:12 AM | #24 |
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I am guessing carbs need cleaned based on the idle seeking it does it has a large amount of trouble finding an idle speed until I ride for near 20 minutes the tach drifts quite a bit when in neutral and not fully warmed
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August 27th, 2018, 07:00 AM | #25 |
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Interesting thread. Good tips.
I feel too more confident on lefties than on righties. For me it happened on all my bikes, so I can't blame the bike. However, I heard many people saying they're more confident on one side or the other. In the end, I think it's just because our brain is not symmetrical. Most of us have a side that works better than the other. In some sports is obvious, like tennis, soccer, or surfing. In this kind of sports, when you start, you naturally choose a side and go for it. I feel that in motor sports, the good side is still there but it's not so obvious. |
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August 27th, 2018, 03:27 PM | #26 | |
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Quote:
In your case it seems to be a little bit more difference than usual, but I would not worry about it. As you get miles under your belt it should all come together. The proximity of guardrails, shoulders, drop-offs, or oncoming traffic combined with anxiety about any of those items can also affect confidence turning left vs. right. On other factor - in countries where driving is on the right, the same turn is a little tighter going to the right than the left. That's because you're in the inside lane so the radius is smaller. It won't make much difference on corners rated 45 and above, but on corners rated 15 or slower there is a noticeable difference. |
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August 27th, 2018, 08:30 PM | #27 |
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The proximity of guardrails, shoulders, drop-offs, or oncoming traffic combined with anxiety about any of those items can also affect confidence turning left vs. right.
That right there is probably 99% of my problem I did some testing today and after 86 right turns and 2 1/2 hours I found I slow more when there is traffic
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August 28th, 2018, 06:18 PM | #28 |
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It's good to know your triggers and how you will react to them.
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December 7th, 2018, 05:01 AM | #29 | |
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December 7th, 2018, 09:43 AM | #30 |
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Hadn’t considered camber as a factor before. Grrrr months until I can start next round of testing.
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August 29th, 2019, 04:29 PM | #31 |
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Work on the mental block. Know that lefts are easy. All of the pressure is on the left hand so it doesn't affect your throttle input.
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