The beginning and end of my riding career

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

Could've been anything in road really that caused the loss of traction while braking...it may not even be how you braked. A combination of things is usually the cause.
If you didn't survey the scene at the time, going back may help shed some light.

True there was construction going on right up the road, could of been some debris where I fell. Also the scratches on my bike are kind of uneven almost as if it slid on some tiny rocks or something. I couldn't see the scene at the time but when I'm better I'll definitely go back and take a look. I would feel so much better knowing this accident wasn't entirely from rider error.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Hmmmm, I wouldn't say that is always true. "Too much" is relative to the amount of traction the tire has. In the case of low traction, "too much" is achievable by even the newest of riders.

I think it's a common mistake for noobs to panic in midcorner and hit the brake. Leaned over at high speed is a recipe for too much braking, in which case, could easily result in a crash.

[ally99]

Mitchell,
Definitely check out Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist. His first important rule (he calls the survival reactions) is to set your speed and no matter what, continue with a steady roll-on of the throttle throughout a corner. He advises to say it to yourself 1000 times and start practicing to develop the good habit. It's all about entry speed...set that right and there will never be a need for brakes. Braking in a corner does the opposite of what you want it to do anyway.

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by ally99

I think it's a common mistake for noobs to panic in midcorner and hit the brake. Leaned over at high speed is a recipe for too much braking, in which case, could easily result in a crash.

true, but I didn't crash because of that lol

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by ally99

Mitchell,
Definitely check out Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist. His first important rule (he calls the survival reactions) is to set your speed and no matter what, continue with a steady roll-on of the throttle throughout a corner. He advises to say it to yourself 1000 times and start practicing to develop the good habit. It's all about entry speed...set that right and there will never be a need for brakes. Braking in a corner does the opposite of what you want it to do anyway.

Yep, I actually do very well with corners maybe because I don't have a fear of leaning. My first time riding on public streets I went with some friends out to Red Rock Canyon 30 miles each way on 3 different highways plus plenty of riding around out there.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by jefe305

true, but I didn't crash because of that lol

She has been around long enough to know. I am pretty sure she was just responding to me anyway.

You crashed because you put yourself and the bike in the position to crash. Simply stated from your own posts, one or more of a few main factors where at play here;

Night....
Empty lane next to slow/stopped traffic (invites getting pulled out in front of)
Following to close?
Tried to accelerate past a car at a bad time?
Handful of front brake?
Locked rear brake?
Speed? (80-100ft is a loooonnnng way for a bike to slide)
The car came out of nowhere?
The car tried to merge in your lane as you were beside it?
Construction and possible debris on the pavement?

That is a lot of possible negatives happening at the same time. Possibly you were a bit complacent at the time?

While you may be able to handle the corners just fine, at the ripe old age of 21... learning to read, predict and react to traffic can be a bit more of a challenge. Sometimes patience is a virtue and cagers do some of the dumbest things.

Again, we wish you a speedy recovery to you and the very best of luck when you throw a leg over. It's a good sign your taking the time to reflect on what and why it happened.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by jefe305

..............I brake hard to avoid hitting him locking up my brakes losing control and falling. I hit the ground on my left side and my bike continues to slide about 80 to 100 feet. I broke my left ankle in 3 places, sprained right wrist, and some mild road rash that went thru my gloves, pants, and leather jacket....................However what I don't get is when I hit the ground my head and shoulders never touched it, my left ankle took all the impact and I slid to a stop. If I grabbed to much front brake the bike would of swept under me and I should of hurt of arms and shoulders.

Yes, sorry, Mitchell; I confused your lesion with someone's else.
Please, disregard the previous lecture about the collar bone.

You are correct, in your case, it looks like the rear tire went into a skid, then the rear tried to catch up with the front swinging CCW and the left side of the bike trapped your left ankle against the road.

Your ankle probably got liberated before the bike slid those 80~100 feet and you rolled and slid on your own, damaging other body parts.

Regardless of the reason that initiate it, there are two types of low-side falls:
Due to front tire tucking (described in previous post): Note the pure lateral fall of the rider's body (hence the typical Clavicle damage:



And due to rear tire skid: Note the more mushy fall of the rider's body, with his but still connected to and following the seat that moves down and away from him, while his ankle becomes sandwiched by the bike and road:



A backpack tends to protect the upper back, shoulder and head in this type of fall.
Did you wear one that night?

[csmith12]

lol, Remember this day, Hernan got some links mixed up from his massive collection.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Motofool

The frontal support of the bike is violently swept from under you and the combined weight of the bike and rider slams the ground also violently.
Your shoulder receives a strong g force upon impact, which translates into a high compressive stress that shatters the collar bone, which is acting as a column between your shoulder and the rest of your upper body.
"The most common type of (Clavicle) fractures occur when a person falls horizontally on the shoulder."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clavicl...nism_of_injury

Which is also a good argument for wearing a jacket with CE armor. Its not perfect, but it definitely helps.

If the front locks, which is rare on clean, dry pavement, you can recover just by letting go. But only if you let go before you lose control. Which can happen pretty fast given that the gyroscopic effects of the front wheel are what is holding the bike up.

Locked wheel rules: Front - let go immediately, Rear - ride it to a stop.

Knock on wood, I have never locked my fronts but have locked the rears a few times when I was a newbie. I've had numerous panic stops where I was to heavy on the front, but when then go wrong, they usually result in a stoppie - which is not good either because the rear brakes are no longer helping you stop - but better than a lockup. Very upsetting when you aren't expecting it.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by csmith12

lol, Remember this day, Hernan got some links mixed up from his massive collection.

Yes, sorry, I got confused with Deejay's accident the day before Christmas

Originally Posted by ranma3030

So it happened again. The day before Xmas eve I went down for my second time............

Soft tissue damage in my left hip. (Really hurts to move my leg) and fractured my collarbone in a few places......

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Yes, sorry, I got confused with Deejay's accident the day before Christmas

No problem, man his sounds bad too. And right before the holidays I know how that feels sucks big time.

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Yes, sorry, Mitchell; I confused your lesion with someone's else.
Please, disregard the previous lecture about the collar bone.

You are correct, in your case, it looks like the rear tire went into a skid, then the rear tried to catch up with the front swinging CCW and the left side of the bike trapped your left ankle against the road.

Your ankle probably got liberated before the bike slid those 80~100 feet and you rolled and slid on your own, damaging other body parts.

Regardless of the reason that initiate it, there are two types of low-side falls:
Due to front tire tucking (described in previous post): Note the pure lateral fall of the rider's body (hence the typical Clavicle damage:



And due to rear tire skid: Note the more mushy fall of the rider's body, with his but still connected to and following the seat that moves down and away from him, while his ankle becomes sandwiched by the bike and road:



A backpack tends to protect the upper back, shoulder and head in this type of fall.
Did you wear one that night?

Yeah the second one looks exactly like what happened to me. When I practiced quick stops in a parking lot I couldn't get the rear brake to lock up. Maybe I just wasn't pushing hard enough. And yes, I had a backpack on but just an old cheap Jans Sport one from high school.

[SNAPPY]

If you want to quit riding then quit riding. Most people don't comprehend the level of risk involved in riding a motorcycle. If you are not willing to take that risk you should quit.

That being said, I don't think you really want to quit. I think you are scared. A healthy level of fear is good though. It'll keep you aware and alive. My suggestion would be to take it to the track. I have been riding for 8 years now. I started on the street like 99.9% of riders do. Eventually I started riding the occasional track day that evolved into more track time than street time. I developed my skills and began racing. Now I rarely ride street. Honestly, it scares me. Gravel, oil, pot holes, guard rails, curbs, OTHER DRIVERS, etc. Too many variables to be in control. The track is a VERY controlled environment and is WAY safer than the street. I suggest you get your bike back, get yourself healed up and go do a track day. I bet you'll love it.

[JohnnyBravo]

Crack cocaine... That is all

[jefe305]

Sure there have been injuries, and even some deaths in motorcycling, but none of them really that serious


Update: Doing well, seeing the doc next week which will make 6 weeks since surgery and hopefully I'll be able to start weight bearing again.

here's some pics

Right after the crash In the ER



A week later right before surgery







X ray after surgery



2 weeks after surgery





and here we are now 5 weeks post op

[ally99]

I bet that hurts even worse than it looks. Heal up!

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by ally99

I bet that hurts even worse than it looks. Heal up!

The first week was bad then when the swelling went down enough for me to have surgery. The first 5 days post op were brutal, round the clock heavy pain killers that were making me even sicker. After those 5 days I was able to stop all pain killers and I was basically pain free.

[dcj13]

Heal quickly!

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by jefe305

The first week was bad then when the swelling went down enough for me to have surgery. The first 5 days post op were brutal, round the clock heavy pain killers that were making me even sicker. After those 5 days I was able to stop all pain killers and I was basically pain free.

Regarding pain killers, I have been preaching that for years. Especially when it comes to narcotic pain killers. There are powerful non-narcotic NSAIDs out there that are considerably stronger than dilaudid, hydrocodone, etc, and don't have the negative side effects. And have zero potential for addiction. And many also reduce inflammation and swelling at the same time. But because of habit, doctors still give accident victims the narcotic stuff.

I don't know what you got, but in any case, its really good that you were able to stop the pain killers because people that don't end up in a nasty downward spiral. And sadly it happens a lot.

[allanoue]

Demerol rocks

[n4mwd]

Demerol rocks

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

...There are powerful non-narcotic NSAIDs out there that are considerably stronger...and don't have the negative side effects...

Dennis hit it on the head. Do we even need the narcotic stuff anymore?

[n4mwd]

NSAIDs tend to work better on constant pain and not that well on intermittent pain. So the narcotics still work better for intermittent pain. But for something like an injury, the NSAIDs work great.

I knew a lady that was dying of cancer and she was in a lot of pain. They were giving her morphine and dilaudid which had virtually no effect on her pain because the cancer was really bad. When they gave her Toradol (an NSAID) her pain vanished for about 4 hours each dose. That is just one of many examples of where high power NSAIDs rock.

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Regarding pain killers, I have been preaching that for years. Especially when it comes to narcotic pain killers. There are powerful non-narcotic NSAIDs out there that are considerably stronger than dilaudid, hydrocodone, etc, and don't have the negative side effects. And have zero potential for addiction. And many also reduce inflammation and swelling at the same time. But because of habit, doctors still give accident victims the narcotic stuff.

I don't know what you got, but in any case, its really good that you were able to stop the pain killers because people that don't end up in a nasty downward spiral. And sadly it happens a lot.

Yea I'm into natural holistic remedies. They prescribed me hydrocodone, and I knew I had to get off it as soon as possible. Doctors are nothing but drug dealers in white coats they rather prescribe something and get you on your way rather than try to treat the underlying problem. Then those meds cause side effects and they prescribe something else for that it's a vicious cycle. In my case that wasn't my problem, but I've seen it happen to too many people.

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

NSAIDs tend to work better on constant pain and not that well on intermittent pain. So the narcotics still work better for intermittent pain. But for something like an injury, the NSAIDs work great.

I knew a lady that was dying of cancer and she was in a lot of pain. They were giving her morphine and dilaudid which had virtually no effect on her pain because the cancer was really bad. When they gave her Toradol (an NSAID) her pain vanished for about 4 hours each dose. That is just one of many examples of where high power NSAIDs rock.

I'm going have to look into that. My mom suffers from severe fibromyalgia and takes a lot of narcotic pain killers. Which really doesn't help at all, and has caused a lot of bad side effects.

When I was in the ER right after the accident they gave me morphine intravenously and it didn't do a damn thing. They said it should feel like you're floating away, meanwhile it had no effect on me. My mom is the same way even before she started taking narcotics for pain and built up a tolerance she always had a very high tolerance. Certain drugs just don't work on some people

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by jefe305

I'm going have to look into that. My mom suffers from severe fibromyalgia and takes a lot of narcotic pain killers. Which really doesn't help at all, and has caused a lot of bad side effects.

When I was in the ER right after the accident they gave me morphine intravenously and it didn't do a damn thing. They said it should feel like you're floating away, meanwhile it had no effect on me. My mom is the same way even before she started taking narcotics for pain and built up a tolerance she always had a very high tolerance. Certain drugs just don't work on some people

If your mother is in constant pain, then a toradol may help, however, NSAIDs are not miracle drugs and they also have side effects. So chronic use can lead to liver problems and gastric bleeding. But the nice thing about toradol is that it drastically reduces inflammation of an injury and that's how it kills the pain - by getting rid of the source. In your mother's case, I don't know that much about fibromyalgia, but it probably wouldn't hurt to talk to the doctor. There may be other NSAIDs other than toradol that might work better for her that she can take on a regular basis. Toradol cannot be taken continuously.

Opioid pain meds can cause a phantom pain syndrome when they wear off. So if you had continued to take the hydrocodone on a regular basis, you could still feel pain in your ankle long after it healed. At that point, you'd be a junkie if you continued to take the hydrocodone to relieve the phantom pain.

Its not uncommon for people to get injured and be in relatively little pain, but then hours later be in agony. This is due to inflammation building up. Toradol (don't confuse with Tramadol which is no stronger than an Alieve) will reduce the inflammation so that you need less toradol and not more over time. Opioid narcotic pain killers don't do squat for inflammation.

In your case, if you have recurring pain, I suggest starting with advil, alieve, or regular aspirin. If its not enough, then talk to the doctor about some toradol.

[jefe305]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

If your mother is in constant pain, then a toradol may help, however, NSAIDs are not miracle drugs and they also have side effects. So chronic use can lead to liver problems and gastric bleeding. But the nice thing about toradol is that it drastically reduces inflammation of an injury and that's how it kills the pain - by getting rid of the source. In your mother's case, I don't know that much about fibromyalgia, but it probably wouldn't hurt to talk to the doctor. There may be other NSAIDs other than toradol that might work better for her that she can take on a regular basis. Toradol cannot be taken continuously.

Opioid pain meds can cause a phantom pain syndrome when they wear off. So if you had continued to take the hydrocodone on a regular basis, you could still feel pain in your ankle long after it healed. At that point, you'd be a junkie if you continued to take the hydrocodone to relieve the phantom pain.

Its not uncommon for people to get injured and be in relatively little pain, but then hours later be in agony. This is due to inflammation building up. Toradol (don't confuse with Tramadol which is no stronger than an Alieve) will reduce the inflammation so that you need less toradol and not more over time. Opioid narcotic pain killers don't do squat for inflammation.

In your case, if you have recurring pain, I suggest starting with advil, alieve, or regular aspirin. If its not enough, then talk to the doctor about some toradol.

I was talking to my mom about the NSAIDs turns out she already tried various kinds and none of them helped enough. She is seeing a new doctor now that is not too fond of taking narcotics long term, and wants to get her off of them. Not too much is known about fibromyalgia at the moment. There's no cure, just ways to manage the pain and symptoms. As for me I've been basically pain free, and since I'm young (only 21) I'm not expecting to have any further problems with this injury.

[Klondike1020]

Major bummer. I hope your recovery is going allright.

[Klondike1020]

Originally Posted by jefe305

Not too much is known about fibromyalgia at the moment. There's no cure, just ways to manage the pain and symptoms. .

I read online that they are trying medicinal Marianna to treat the symptoms, that and extreme health diets like the paleolithic diet are supposed ot help in some cases.

[jefe305]

Since they occur almost daily here, I got used to hearing about all the fatalities but this one really got to me today. http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/24670...torcycle-crash

Rider was the same age as me and it happened in an area that I know well. Can't even imagine what his last few moments must of been like.

[allanoue]

Why did he run off the road? What killed him, internal injures, head trauma, or did he burn to death? How is that ankle doing?

[n4mwd]

I read the article.

2014 Kawasaki sport motorcycle failed to maintain his lane while traveling eastbound on Oakey Boulevard approaching Martin Luther King Boulevard. The Kawasaki ran off the right side of the roadway onto the south sidewalk and continued eastbound crashing into the base of a street light pole.

When stuff like that happens, its usually a combination of two things - rider inexperience and an idiot cager changed lanes into him and drove away. It happens a lot, but the ones I have seen the most are when the cager pushes a biker (who is in the leftmost lane) into oncoming traffic on the other side. That's when it gets really nasty. In this guy's case, it looks like he was in the right lane and someone pushed him over on to the sidewalk.

When riding, you need to make a special effort to make sure you don't end up in anybody's blind spot.

Another thing to remember is that in many cases, there is enough room for both you and the cager in the same lane (lane splitting) - so there is no reason to panic when they do that. Just hit the brakes and get out of the idiot cager's way.

Its also a good argument to always run video. If that kid had video, at least his family could sue the cager for wrongful death.

[SNAPPY]

or..................Take it to the track.

[jefe305]

Started up my my bike today for the first time since my crash which was about 2 1/2 months ago, can't believe it's been that long already. It started right up not even a dead battery amazing these bikes are indestructible. Going check it out better this weekend and if everything checks out going for a short ride.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by jefe305

Started up my my bike today for the first time since my crash which was about 2 1/2 months ago, can't believe it's been that long already. It started right up not even a dead battery amazing these bikes are indestructible. Going check it out better this weekend and if everything checks out going for a short ride.

[jefe305]

Can't believe I even thought about giving up motorcycling. What was I thinking, no way, no how, never.

We crash, we almost die, we break bones, and as soon as we are physically able to we get back on the bike hop on the highway and do 100 MPH. haha (straight open desert roads)
If you wake up and drive the same car to the same job day after day after day everyday and that's it then I got news for you you're already dead.
I am free to live in the now because I have decided not to be enslaved to the future.
Everyday we gradually distance ourselves from experiencing a full and free life and we don’t even know it.

[Yakaru]

*hugs from one Vegas rider to another*
Sorry I missed the majority of this thread due to my absence.
Glad you're getting back on your feet and two wheels. Make sure you get everything checked over on the bike (any nasty frame damage, alignment slip, or wheel out of round could give you a bad day), but from the nature of the accident it should be in good shape.

[greenaero]

Great to hear you back to riding!!!