My First Track Day

[jeffb502]

Went to Buttonwillow for a track day today. I learned a lot. I touched something to the ground other than my tires for the first time ever (the sole of my boot). I'm glad it was on a track instead of the road. Now I know what it feels like, and even used my toe slider later in the day. Another rider said it right at the end of the day..."next time less toe, more knee."

One of the control riders followed me and said I was using pretty much all of the lean angle in the bike (even scraping the shifter every now and then...I guess the shift lever touches down before the shoe. The rubber on the bottom of the shift lever has worn flat in one spot now lol. He said it was time for me to start leaning off the bike to carry the same speed with less bike lean angle. I tried a few times but just didn't feel comfortable enough to start putting it into regular practice. It goes against all of my instincts to move my butt and body away from the thing that's keeping me from sliding along the asphalt, lol. I'll have to read up on it and mentally prepare myself to try it my next track day.

Here's a video of one lap as a sample. I haven't sorted through all the video. Unfortunately my last few laps in the last session didn't get recorded because the battery died, and they felt like some of the best at times. Also the scariest moment of the day was locking up the rear going in to turn two (we were going counter clockwise so turn 2 is the 2nd to last turn) in one of my last laps in the last session (so unfortunately it wasn't recorded). I had been testing out the limits of the slipper clutch and I think adding rear brake to dumping the clutch on a downshift was a bad idea. I missed the apex but had a MSF class flashback, straightened up, braked hard until I knew I could make the turn, then turned. Turn 2 starts at 2:34 in the video.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Added: Video of first time I scraped my toe at the first section of turn 2 (with counterclockwise orientation)...skip to 25 seconds if you have an extreme lack of patience...

Link to original page on YouTube.

Oh funny story...I dropped the bike twice, both involving the trailer.

Drop #1: At home I was going to roll it down the driveway. I was standing on the left side, on a slight downhill, then decided I wanted to be on the right side (by the brakes). I acted before thinking and decided to get on the right side by sitting down on it from the left, then dismounting to the right. As I dismounted to the right I kicked the bike with my left heel and fell over with it. My right foot was momentarily stuck under the right fairing, which now has some spectacular cracks on it, but no missing pieces. I was able to free my foot, picked up the bike, and rolled it onto the trailer walking on the right side like a boss, lol.

Drop #2: I was trying to take it off the trailer at the track. When I pulled it out of the front automatic wheel chock I somehow allowed the front wheel to crank all the way over to the left, causing it to get stuck in the wheel chock and fall to the left (either that or falling to the left caused it to get stuck...I hadn't had my morning coffee and wasn't really thinking again). Another rider that was nearby (who I should have asked to help me in the first place...I really hate asking for help but I think now I may be more likely to ask in the future) saw what happened, sprung into action, and helped me free my stuck bike and unload. The left fairing struck the left fender on the trailer, cracking the fairing near one of the mounting bolts, and doing no damage to the trailer (solid fenders on that thing, lol).

So now my left fairing and right fairing are both cracked. I guess I'll be keeping this bike for a while (not that I was planning on selling it any time soon anyway).

[psych0hans]

Buy a new set of rearsets/rearset adjuster plates. That will give you plenty of extra ground clearance. Good going at the track!

[csmith12]

Track day on IRC's!



Never be afraid to ask for help at the track, there is always a friendly hand around. Also, welcome to the club of having your bike damaged more from getting it back and forth from the track than riding it, also know as the cool cat club.

[Boosted139]

Originally Posted by jeffb502

It goes against all of my instincts to move my butt and body away from the thing that's keeping me from sliding along the asphalt, lol. I'll have to read up on it and mentally prepare myself to try it my next track day.

Congrats on the successful track day. Moving off the bike will come with time. I felt the same way when I started, but now I feel incredibly awkward if I don't hang off

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Track day on IRC's! :

LOL my track day on IRCs ended up with me on the pavement lol. Last session of the day had been pushing and pushing and BAM

LOL I really didn't like those little black round rocks.

To the OP, great job on your first event and you seem very sensible about moving forward and increasing your skill levels and glad you had an awesome time. Welcome to the addiction

[jeffb502]

Originally Posted by psych0hans

Buy a new set of rearsets/rearset adjuster plates. That will give you plenty of extra ground clearance. Good going at the track!

I'm thinking about the yoshimura adjuster plates to get a little extra ground clearance, but with the stock tires I've found I start dragging toe just about at the point where I'm on the edge of the tread. With more ground clearance would it be possible to drive past the edge of the tread without scraping anything, or hit the kickstand? Maybe for a noob like me with horrible body position it's good to set down the toe as a warning that I'm running out of bike lean angle and I should try leaning my body instead?

Originally Posted by csmith12

Track day on IRC's!



Never be afraid to ask for help at the track, there is always a friendly hand around. Also, welcome to the club of having your bike damaged more from getting it back and forth from the track than riding it, also know as the cool cat club.

lol I gotta wear out these IRC's somehow!

Yeah as the day went on I found there were lots of friendly people willing to help, so I won't hesitate to ask in the future.

Thanks for the welcome to the club! We should have stickers made that say "cool cat club" that can be used to cover the cracks in our fairings lol.

Originally Posted by Boosted139

Congrats on the successful track day. Moving off the bike will come with time. I felt the same way when I started, but now I feel incredibly awkward if I don't hang off

I think I'm trying to do it all at once. Even on the street I've had the urge to lean my upper body off. I think my main hang up is moving my butt off to the side. Any tips on how to do that for somebody that hasn't before?

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

LOL my track day on IRCs ended up with me on the pavement lol. Last session of the day had been pushing and pushing and BAM

LOL I really didn't like those little black round rocks.

To the OP, great job on your first event and you seem very sensible about moving forward and increasing your skill levels and glad you had an awesome time. Welcome to the addiction

Did the IRCs give you any warning before they gave up? I was kind of worried about ending up on the pavement with how much of the tire I was using. I would add little by little in some turns from lap to lap, always somewhat thinking "is this going to be too much and I'm suddenly going to go sliding?"

[Boosted139]

Originally Posted by jeffb502

I think I'm trying to do it all at once. Even on the street I've had the urge to lean my upper body off. I think my main hang up is moving my butt off to the side. Any tips on how to do that for somebody that hasn't before?

Move your butt early and get in the habit of never sitting in the middle of the seat unless you're on a main straight. This gets it so that you don't have to think about moving your butt while you're braking, down shifting and turning in (plus moving your body while turning in can upset the bike).

As far as your upper body, for me it's about physical contact points (easier to replicate). For me, getting my outer forearm in contact across the top of the tank and getting my inner elbow down towards inside of my knee (this helps me to drop my shoulder).

You gotta find something that works for you, that is repeatable. GoPro on your tail facing forward (to see your BP) helps a lot. Also looking at any track photos during the day. You can feel like you're hanging way off when in reality you just aren't.

[jeffb502]

Originally Posted by Boosted139

Move your butt early and get in the habit of never sitting in the middle of the seat unless you're on a main straight. This gets it so that you don't have to think about moving your butt while you're braking, down shifting and turning in (plus moving your body while turning in can upset the bike).

As far as your upper body, for me it's about physical contact points (easier to replicate). For me, getting my outer forearm in contact across the top of the tank and getting my inner elbow down towards inside of my knee (this helps me to drop my shoulder).

You gotta find something that works for you, that is repeatable. GoPro on your tail facing forward (to see your BP) helps a lot. Also looking at any track photos during the day. You can feel like you're hanging way off when in reality you just aren't.

Thanks for the tips! I like the idea of doing one thing at a time first, then once I get each thing down maybe doing them closer together or at the same time to speed up a bit. One of the instructor riders at the track also mentioned if he doesn't point his elbow in the direction of the turn he can forget to move his shoulder down.

When I move on the seat, should I slide over and maintain full contact with the seat the whole time, get up a little bit and sit back down where I want to be, or try to keep as much weight off the seat as possible and put more weight on the pegs, almost standing up through the turn?

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by jeffb502

Did the IRCs give you any warning before they gave up? I was kind of worried about ending up on the pavement with how much of the tire I was using. I would add little by little in some turns from lap to lap, always somewhat thinking "is this going to be too much and I'm suddenly going to go sliding?"

Actually nope, they gave no real warning when I lost them, and put me down quite quickly when it happened. But I was doing too much on a bone stock bike and I definitely weighted more than the rider the bike was designed around. I was asking for it playing in the red lol

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by jeffb502

When I move on the seat, should I slide over and maintain full contact with the seat the whole time, get up a little bit and sit back down where I want to be, or try to keep as much weight off the seat as possible and put more weight on the pegs, almost standing up through the turn?

Question for you? When should you be set up for the corner with your body position (one cheek off)? Before or after turn in to the corner?

Extra homework: look up "knee to knee" on youtube. Basically you want to slide across the seat, don't lift up. Why do you think the is beneficial?

Hints;
If you don't use you legs to move you, what are you using to keep yourself stable on the bike?
How much energy is used to lift yourself out of the seat vs. sliding across?

[Boosted139]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Question for you? When should you be set up for the corner with your body position (one cheek off)? Before or after turn in to the corner?

Extra homework: look up "knee to knee" on youtube. Basically you want to slide across the seat, don't lift up. Why do you think the is beneficial?

Hints;
If you don't use you legs to move you, what are you using to keep yourself stable on the bike?
How much energy is used to lift yourself out of the seat vs. sliding across?

You forgot to begin your post by saying class is now in session

[jeffb502]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

Actually nope, they gave no real warning when I lost them, and put me down quite quickly when it happened. But I was doing too much on a bone stock bike and I definitely weighted more than the rider the bike was designed around. I was asking for it playing in the red lol

Good to know...do better tires tend to give any warning before letting go, or just provide more traction and let go without warning when they run out?

One thing that annoys me about the tires on my car is they squeal all the time when they have plenty of traction left, but it's nice to listen to have the squeal to know how much traction I'm using.

Originally Posted by csmith12

Homework: look up "knee to knee" on youtube. Basically you want to slide across the seat, don't lift up. Why do you think the is beneficial?

Hints;
If you don't use you legs to move you, what are you using to keep yourself stable on the bike?
How much energy is used to lift yourself out of the seat vs. sliding across?

Thanks for the homework assignment! Do you mean the video by mrsparkyaprilia? That's the first one that popped up.

I bet my legs will be tired after my next track day lol. After I was done for the day another rider asked if I was sore anywhere. I said no. He said I would be later. I didn't really believe him since my knees didn't hurt and that's the first thing that always hurts me during a ride. Today I feel it in my upper back/shoulder/triceps muscles, I think from the constant pushing back and forth on the bars. One thing that surprised me is my knees didn't hurt at all. Usually after a long day in the saddle my knees hurt. I think the extended breaks (ride 20 mins, take a 40 min break) helped with the knee pain issue.

[jeffb502]

Some highlights from the 6th session are uploading now...should be available shortly. Just a few people passing me, me passing 1 person, and a checkered/yellow finish with a bike down off the side of the turn I kept scraping my left toe in.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by jeffb502

Good to know...do better tires tend to give any warning before letting go, or just provide more traction and let go without warning when they run out?

One thing that annoys me about the tires on my car is they squeal all the time when they have plenty of traction left, but it's nice to listen to have the squeal to know how much traction I'm using.



Thanks for the homework assignment! Do you mean the video by mrsparkyaprilia? That's the first one that popped up.

I bet my legs will be tired after my next track day lol. After I was done for the day another rider asked if I was sore anywhere. I said no. He said I would be later. I didn't really believe him since my knees didn't hurt and that's the first thing that always hurts me during a ride. Today I feel it in my upper back/shoulder/triceps muscles, I think from the constant pushing back and forth on the bars. One thing that surprised me is my knees didn't hurt at all. Usually after a long day in the saddle my knees hurt. I think the extended breaks (ride 20 mins, take a 40 min break) helped with the knee pain issue.

As far as the tires go, yea some give more feedback before letting loose, others not so much but different riders like the feel and feedback that is given from different brands. For example I am a michelin man. They have outstanding grip but only give a little warning before letting go. The bridgestones offer less grip but provide a lot of feedback before letting go. With you in the saddle, you opinion of different tires could be different than mine and that is ok.

Soreness... yes After about the 10th or so track day, you will not get sore anymore from riding all day. "Let the bike do the hard work."

And, the knee to knee vid. You might have found the below. Which directly answers your question with visual example and connects to my previous comment about "letting the bike do the hard work" or "work smarter, not harder".

Link to original page on YouTube.

Nice riding in your videos. When you going back?

[jeffb502]

Originally Posted by csmith12

As far as the tires go, yea some give more feedback before letting loose, others not so much but different riders like the feel and feedback that is given from different brands. For example I am a michelin man. They have outstanding grip but only give a little warning before letting go. The bridgestones offer less grip but provide a lot of feedback before letting go. With you in the saddle, you opinion of different tires could be different than mine and that is ok.

I'm thinking of getting some Pirelli Diablo Rosso II for my next set of tires. They seem like a good compromise between a street tire and a track tire. I'm thinking some people probably run a different set of tires on the track as they move up in group/speed. I saw a lot of slicks. I also saw a lot of dedicated track day bikes. I think for now the ease of going from street to track without having to change tires every time is worth the compromise. I can see a dedicated track bike in my near future though if I find the money and/or come across a cheap non street legal bike that would work.

Soreness... yes After about the 10th or so track day, you will not get sore anymore from riding all day. "Let the bike do the hard work."

I imagine it's like riding a bicycle. Butt hurts for a few rides, then gets used to it.

And, the knee to knee vid. You might have found the below. Which directly answers your question with visual example and connects to my previous comment about "letting the bike do the hard work" or "work smarter, not harder".

Actually I didn't find that one. Thanks for the link!

I'm always using the "work smarter, not harder" quote when I'm with other people, and even when I'm talking to myself while about to do something.

Nice riding in your videos. When you going back?

Thanks!

There's one coming up on Friday the 13th next month at the same track, in the opposite direction that I went this time. I don't think I can afford the time off work and fuel (mostly to drive the Yukon back and forth towing a trailer) more than once a month. I'm also thinking I'll wait until I can see what the weather will be like in the 10 day forecast before registering. If it's forecast to be over 90 I'll probably skip it. I dislike hot weather. I'm also looking at tracks in more coastal locations to avoid the mid summer heat. They're all a longer drive away, and about double the cost, so I have to take that into account as well. There's an August 4th at Sonoma raceway (aka Sears Point) that I just found and need to do a bit more research on, but I'm thinking about trying to make that one work.

[csmith12]

All that is cool and all but give it a chance to really sink in and the euphoria to wear off a bit. I would say to spend you hard earned $$ on gas, tires and track time respectively. No real rush to jump in head first ya know.

Since you did the track on the irc's, I think you will really like the rosso's. They really can be a source of inspired confidence, just don't drag that toe to hard.

[jeffb502]

Yeah I think the magic still hasn't worn off yet. I'll give it a week or so at least before I register for another one.

Here's some pictures from the track day (I'm going to post links instead of copying and pasting them since it says on the website that if I remove them from the site it's theft).

I'm the guy on the white 300 with the white leathers and the neon helmet.

http://www.caliphotography.com/photo...#image=4128486 (click left twice for 2 additional photos with me in them)

http://www.caliphotography.com/photo...#image=4128739 (click right twice for 2 additional photos)

http://www.caliphotography.com/photo...#image=4128942 (5 more photos to the left)

http://www.caliphotography.com/photo...#image=4129031 (2 more to the left)

An instructor testing out his glove's knuckle protector feature:

http://www.caliphotography.com/photo...#image=4128997

And the pictures of the only incident of the day that caused a red flag and required the ambulance to go on the track. It was the first or second run of B group (scroll right for additional pictures).

http://www.caliphotography.com/photo...#image=4129724

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by csmith12

As far as the tires go, yea some give more feedback before letting loose, others not so much but different riders like the feel and feedback that is given from different brands. For example I am a michelin man. They have outstanding grip but only give a little warning before letting go. The bridgestones offer less grip but provide a lot of feedback before letting go. With you in the saddle, you opinion of different tires could be different than mine and that is ok.

That is one thing I did really like about the 'Stones, they gave some warning. My track experience has only really been with Bridgestones, Michelins, Dunlops (I don't count the IRCs lol) and I didn't really like the Michelins. But I have not ridden the Cups which are supposed to be a great great tire. I just felt like the Michelins didn't communicate that much back to me from the front end, and then wanted to squirm and push when I got it wrong.

Tires are a bit like oil, most all of them work very well, its just a preference and setup thing.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by jeffb502

I'm thinking about the yoshimura adjuster plates to get a little extra ground clearance, but with the stock tires I've found I start dragging toe just about at the point where I'm on the edge of the tread. With more ground clearance would it be possible to drive past the edge of the tread without scraping anything, or hit the kickstand?

CAVEAT: I've been riding a very long time but I'm a track virgin so take this with a grain of salt.


You may be thinking about this the wrong way. The object here isn't to allow the bike to lean over more, it's to alter the way you ride so the bike doesn't have to lean over as far in the first place.

Yeah, rearsets are good because they'll increase your cornering clearance, but if you sharpen your technique that becomes a safety margin, not a necessity.

FWIW I find spirited cornering to feel a lot more stable and sure when I am moving my body down and to the inside, even at low speeds. Kiss that mirror, put your outside forearm on the tank and drive on out of the corner.

Getting your butt off is easy. My $0.02... don't worry about getting your whole a$$ off. Just one cheek. You can do this easily just riding in a straight line. Try it. And next time you watch onboard video of racers, pay attention to how far they ACTUALLY hang off. You'll find that most of the time it's just one cheek.

What you see a lot is people who go to extremes getting their butt off, but not doing anything with their upper body. Classic "crossed up" style.

Consider this: Your head alone weighs as much as a bowling ball. What do you think the effect on the bike will be if you move it in and down while cornering? And that's just your head... most of your mass is in your torso.

[jeffb502]

Originally Posted by adouglas

CAVEAT: I've been riding a very long time but I'm a track virgin so take this with a grain of salt.


You may be thinking about this the wrong way. The object here isn't to allow the bike to lean over more, it's to alter the way you ride so the bike doesn't have to lean over as far in the first place.

Yeah, rearsets are good because they'll increase your cornering clearance, but if you sharpen your technique that becomes a safety margin, not a necessity.

FWIW I find spirited cornering to feel a lot more stable and sure when I am moving my body down and to the inside, even at low speeds. Kiss that mirror, put your outside forearm on the tank and drive on out of the corner.

Getting your butt off is easy. My $0.02... don't worry about getting your whole a$$ off. Just one cheek. You can do this easily just riding in a straight line. Try it. And next time you watch onboard video of racers, pay attention to how far they ACTUALLY hang off. You'll find that most of the time it's just one cheek.

What you see a lot is people who go to extremes getting their butt off, but not doing anything with their upper body. Classic "crossed up" style.

Consider this: Your head alone weighs as much as a bowling ball. What do you think the effect on the bike will be if you move it in and down while cornering? And that's just your head... most of your mass is in your torso.

Thanks for the reference points. So I'm rehearsing it in my head as...slide left or right in the seat, then do all my braking and downshifting, then start to lean, pointing inside elbow out at the ground (a tip I got from one of the instructors at the track), moving other forearm against the tank, trying to kiss the mirror, having outside knee/leg firmly against the tank. What about the inside knee? Any tips for getting the leg in the proper position, or does that just kind of happen?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by jeffb502

Any tips for getting the leg in the proper position, or does that just kind of happen?

Stretch before riding for the day and relax the outside leg. Literally, just let it dangle. Once it touches down, you're free to pull it back up a bit, as we call it "touch and go" and knee pucks are expensive to just drag away. Tidy foot placement is important here, ball of the foot on the peg. Some riders point their foot out, others keep it straight and locked against the heel plate part of the rearset. It's a personal style/comfort thing as long as it works for you.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Stretch before riding for the day and relax the outside leg. Literally, just let it dangle. Once it touches down, you're free to pull it back up a bit, as we call it "touch and go" and knee pucks are expensive to just drag away.

Don't you mean the INSIDE leg? Hard to imagine how you're going to get your outside leg (knee?) to touch down....

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Don't you mean the INSIDE leg? Hard to imagine how you're going to get your outside leg (knee?) to touch down....

lol, yea... my error INSIDE leg.