May 5th, 2014, 07:49 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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Cooling issue...
Here goes.
about a month ago I joined up here with intentions of buying a 250. well. I did. and it is having a cooling issue that since mid april I have yet to figure out. replaced thermostat and radiator cap. resevoir boiling up around highway speeds. 50mph or below the bikes temp stays stable, it even stays stable at the highway speeds, but the coolant resevoir fills up and starts to piss out. opened the radiator cap about ten minutes ago, turn the bike on, no coolant is moving at the radiator cap at all. am i just being cheap and not wanting to replace the water pump? last night I opened up the water pump housing, the pump moves when ticking over the bike. no, i didnt run it, tapped the starter and saw the thing move. did it a few times, had some play, but it moved. im talking slight play, maybe a quarter inch clock and counter clockwise. refilled the system, and it seemed to run better up until higher rpm, did the same thing. We did most of our testing at a stand still, the fan comes on better with completely new coolant, but even so, still boils into the reservoir and leaks out the overflow tube. stays pretty stable at idle actually. and the thermostat is new, confirmed working when we boiled the old one (which worked btw...) and threw the new one into the boiling water. im thinking water pump, but dont want to come to terms with my new found belief lol... I know you guys can help, love this little bike and glad I own another one. never should have sold my first ninja 250...this things so nice to rip around town. if only it cooled right! |
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May 5th, 2014, 07:52 AM | #2 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Kevin
Location: Madison
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465
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At high RPMS without air moving past the radiator, I would expect it to overheat. Do you have anything blocking the radiator?
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May 5th, 2014, 07:55 AM | #3 |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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no sir.
it also did this in motion at 65mph around 8k rpm for about 2.5 miles. it slowly creeped to the top of the reservoir and leaked out onto the tire. kept the side covers off so i could watch the tank as i ride. unsafe? sure. only way to see if it does it at speed. |
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May 5th, 2014, 07:57 AM | #4 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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How are you burping the air out of the system? If yours is anything like mine, you have to have patience and be diligent to get ALL the air out.
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May 5th, 2014, 07:58 AM | #5 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
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I'm thinking the radiator cap is bad.
Is the level in the radiator up to the top when you open it after running and cooling off? What does the temp gauge read when it happens? |
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May 5th, 2014, 07:58 AM | #6 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Kevin
Location: Madison
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465
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The level will rise as it heats up. What is level like in the reservoir. Between the L and H marks I would assume?
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May 5th, 2014, 07:58 AM | #7 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Oh! Gratz on your purchase. Time to update your profile so we know what ya got, a pic wouldn't hurt either.
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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May 5th, 2014, 07:59 AM | #8 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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Quote:
i was filling the coolant up in the radiator fill spot, taking my time, than filled up the reservoir. I did not intentionally burp anything. |
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May 5th, 2014, 08:00 AM | #9 |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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May 5th, 2014, 08:00 AM | #10 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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In OP, a new one was purchased. New one bad? Maybe, but wouldn't suspect it right away.
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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May 5th, 2014, 08:01 AM | #11 |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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May 5th, 2014, 08:02 AM | #12 |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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May 5th, 2014, 08:02 AM | #13 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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May 5th, 2014, 08:04 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Kevin
Location: Madison
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465
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Could passages in the radiator be plugged from the corrosion and gummyness?
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May 5th, 2014, 08:05 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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May 5th, 2014, 08:05 AM | #16 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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It may not be making a seal and allowing the expanding coolant to go to the overflow bottle instead of holding pressure.
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May 5th, 2014, 08:07 AM | #17 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Let's start there. I simply run the bike with the cap off until the thermostat opens and all the air bubble stop coming out. The occasional light rev at the end just to be sure.
See here too for more info and in similar threads at the bottom of the page. Another oddity I have seen in the past is that the radiator neck lip (where the cap goes on) had a dimple in it. Causing the old and new radiator cap not seat properly. The cap must make a good seal.
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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May 5th, 2014, 08:09 AM | #18 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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Quote:
I'll search ebay for a clean one and order it. mine is pretty gummed up and I had to scrape off what I could. and I started it about thirty minutes ago witht he cap off and the level of the coolant only rose, no bubbles or anything like that. |
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May 5th, 2014, 08:10 AM | #19 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Need answers to this:
Is the level in the radiator up to the top when you open it after running and cooling off? What does the temp gauge read when it happens? |
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May 5th, 2014, 08:11 AM | #20 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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Quote:
temp gauge reads between half and redline. so 3/4. fan does come on between 3/4 and redline. |
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May 5th, 2014, 08:17 AM | #21 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Quote:
Does the level in the overflow bottle rise immediately as it heats up from cold? It should't start to rise immediately, it should take some time before the pressure builds enough to allow coolant to move from the radiator to the bottle. |
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May 5th, 2014, 08:19 AM | #22 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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Quote:
to answer your question, it doesn't rise immediately. only rises when the temp gets up. |
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May 5th, 2014, 08:24 AM | #23 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Quote:
Because the filler neck was a mess, you'd expect that the passages would be also. If the temp doesn't come down when the fan turns on, it would suggest the radiator isn't radiating... |
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May 5th, 2014, 08:27 AM | #24 |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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the temp does in fact come down when the fan comes on, and does it rather quickly.
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May 5th, 2014, 08:51 AM | #25 | |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Given that the ambient temps in Maine are not that high, the quick overheating may be more than just the cooling system. It may be a good idea to look at a few other items that may be causing you to overheat. Do you have any carb mods done to the bike? What kind of oil do you use? What kind of spark plugs are in it? How does the bike perform overall? |
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May 5th, 2014, 08:54 AM | #26 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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Quote:
I am busy at the shop here today, ill try and snap a picture. it has got to be the filler cap not getting a proper seal. hopefully will get here by the end of the week. no carb mods, just cleaned the carbs yesterday actually. running mint. teal container...repsol maybe? fully synthetic 10w-40 ngk stock temp range. bike performs mint. starts great, idles great, goes through the gears great. just cant get over this damn cooling puking thing! lol |
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May 5th, 2014, 09:02 AM | #27 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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If all everything else checks out and you still have the overheating issue, do a compression test. Also see if you can check the exhaust header temps. You may have one cylinder running hotter than the other and not know it.
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May 5th, 2014, 09:13 AM | #28 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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Quote:
if the filler cap doesnt work. ill get at it that way. next post will be a photo of my filler neck. |
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May 5th, 2014, 09:20 AM | #29 |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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ok. so check that out. it was even worse before i scraped off some of the crap on it... black line on the inside of the filler neck is raised? that is NOT a scrape mark, it actually is physically raised on one side of the filler neck. why the hell would there be something raised on the edge not having a good seal? confused as hell ha... |
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May 5th, 2014, 09:25 AM | #30 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Maybe a spring or something gouged the inside making a rise where the seals meet. Definitely an issue. Is there a mark on the lower seal of your new cap?
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May 5th, 2014, 09:27 AM | #31 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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Quote:
looking at other filler caps on google images there should be a complete circle. not this like half moon risen part of the filler neck. something aint right lol |
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May 5th, 2014, 09:28 AM | #32 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: UK
Join Date: Apr 2014 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250, Yamaha RS200 (classic) Posts: A lot.
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I had a blocked radiator did this It corroded badly from VGC secondhand over a year or so. after a couple of miles the gauge would rise to red and it dumped water into the reservoir pushed by steam from the cylinder jacket and head. after it cooled a bit it would draw the coolant back into the engine
I thought all sorts of complex reasons but in the end realized I had omitted the ground strap when I fitted it and I think electrolytic action corroded it Now a new rad, grounded and refilled with distilled water and antifreeze all seems well Drain the system and try to blow through the rad through the bottom hose with the rad cap off If the flow is poor you won't get meaningful ammounts air flowing through.Mine was totally and completely blocked ( One side of the rad still being cold when the bike is overheated is another sign) |
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May 5th, 2014, 09:29 AM | #33 |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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http://forums.ninja250.org/posting.p...&t=84065&tro=1
similiar issue, changing the filler neck resolved this inmates problem. problem solved for him, and hopefully me as well once it comes in and I change it out. |
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May 5th, 2014, 09:31 AM | #34 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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Quote:
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May 5th, 2014, 09:37 AM | #35 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: UK
Join Date: Apr 2014 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250, Yamaha RS200 (classic) Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
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May 5th, 2014, 09:39 AM | #36 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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Quote:
came out of the lower radiator hose. |
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May 5th, 2014, 09:51 AM | #37 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Jesse
Location: Maryville, TN
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ugly 89 frankenstien special ex250, and the "Zooks" : 1982 GS450 and 1979 GS1000 Posts: 327
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Quote:
Just to throw something out here, have you checked that the fan is blowing in the right direction?? You say it's fine slow but acts up at speed maybe it works ok blowing air backwards sitting still then when you're moving the wind counter-acts the fan and the radiator loses air flow? I don't recall if the + and - connectors are interchangeable but it would be easy enough to hook them up backwards.
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Oh god the bikes are multiplying!!! |
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May 5th, 2014, 09:54 AM | #38 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: B
Location: Maine
Join Date: Mar 2014 Motorcycle(s): Nothing currently Posts: 40
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Quote:
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May 5th, 2014, 09:55 AM | #39 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: UK
Join Date: Apr 2014 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250, Yamaha RS200 (classic) Posts: A lot.
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May 5th, 2014, 10:02 AM | #40 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Jesse
Location: Maryville, TN
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ugly 89 frankenstien special ex250, and the "Zooks" : 1982 GS450 and 1979 GS1000 Posts: 327
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Quote:
I might just hook a garden hose up and wash the radiator out in both directions and see if anything blows out. I think you said you already ordered one but the pressure cap necks are cheap like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-Kawasak...p2054897.l5658
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Oh god the bikes are multiplying!!! |
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