Getting Discouraged

Cshark · July 22nd, 2017, 07:06 PM

Good evening!
Me and my son purchased a 95 ninja 250 for $200.
Fella said the bike had run 3 months earlier...

Ok - background. ( History )
I have rebuilt a Vulcan 800 ( wife's, sold )
Reworked a Vulcan 1500
And BUBF 1500 ( persistent carb issues ) w/sidecar.

Wife and I switched gears and sold our bikes - as we lived in our travel trailer while we built a house.

When our son expressed an interest to ride I jumped at the chance to get back into motorcycles.
I have plenty of history with Kawasaki, even though my love was my Valkyrie. Anyway I thought we'd be nearly bulletproof with the 250.

(Currently )
250 is in the garage - and after mins of cranking to no avail - I used a little starting fluid in the air box - and the engine came to life and ran. I felt that this was proof that once we had carbs sorted out this would run.

We cleaned the carbs - no start
We bought a second set of carbs from eBay and dipped them.
No start.
This thing will get the head pipes warm - trip and backfire initially, but once we crank for a minute or so - that's all it does.

My son is discouraged - and I think as long as I can provide a set of steps we can get through we'll continue on this path and hopefully discover and fix the issue(s)

-so
Where would you guys start? Please - if there are applicable links include them.

Thank you in advance for help!

Triple Jim · July 22nd, 2017, 07:24 PM

My first guess is that you haven't yet gotten a truly clean and functional set of carbs on it. I say that because the starting fluid got it going. If you can do a complete job, do that and see if that fixes it. If you're not comfortable taking them down the the very last screw and cleaning every tiny passage thoroughly, get a hold of Ducatiman here on the board. He's known for very high quality rebuilds at reasonable prices.

Edit: I almost forgot... Welcome to the board Chris, it's good to meet you.

Ram Jet · July 22nd, 2017, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cshark

Good evening!
Me and my son purchased a 95 ninja 250 for $200.
Fella said the bike had run 3 months earlier...

Ok - background. ( History )
I have rebuilt a Vulcan 800 ( wife's, sold )
Reworked a Vulcan 1500
And BUBF 1500 ( persistent carb issues ) w/sidecar.

Wife and I switched gears and sold our bikes - as we lived in our travel trailer while we built a house.

When our son expressed an interest to ride I jumped at the chance to get back into motorcycles.
I have plenty of history with Kawasaki, even though my love was my Valkyrie. Anyway I thought we'd be nearly bulletproof with the 250.

(Currently )
250 is in the garage - and after mins of cranking to no avail - I used a little starting fluid in the air box - and the engine came to life and ran. I felt that this was proof that once we had carbs sorted out this would run.

We cleaned the carbs - no start
We bought a second set of carbs from eBay and dipped them.
No start.
This thing will get the head pipes warm - trip and backfire initially, but once we crank for a minute or so - that's all it does.

My son is discouraged - and I think as long as I can provide a set of steps we can get through we'll continue on this path and hopefully discover and fix the issue(s)

-so
Where would you guys start? Please - if there are applicable links include them.

Thank you in advance for help!

When you consider the amount of time you have spent thus far plus the cost of the second set of carbs you could have sent your original carbs to Ducatiman (a member here) and for a nominal charge have had the equivalent of a new set of carbs. I know what he charges for a full blown re-manufacture but it's not my place to quote his pricing.

At least you will KNOW it's not the carbs at fault.

Bill

Z1R rider · July 22nd, 2017, 08:04 PM

^^^^^ What Jim said...the carbs can be a bit of a pain, I had one that needed the carbs cleaned and I had them on and off half a dozen times before I got them clean and the float needle to seal. (that took new needles) The petcocks are also a sore spot on these (and other) bikes, some people rebuild and some just buy new. The fuel tank vent (integral part of the fuel cap) is also known to plug and cause problems. You almost certainly have a fuel delivery problem, but don't give up, if worse comes to worse @ducatiman has been known to have rebuilt carbs on the shelf and if not can rebuild yours.

Welcome to the board!

Ram Jet · July 22nd, 2017, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cshark

Good evening!
Me and my son purchased a 95 ninja 250 for $200.
Fella said the bike had run 3 months earlier...

Ok - background. ( History )
I have rebuilt a Vulcan 800 ( wife's, sold )
Reworked a Vulcan 1500
And BUBF 1500 ( persistent carb issues ) w/sidecar.

Wife and I switched gears and sold our bikes - as we lived in our travel trailer while we built a house.

When our son expressed an interest to ride I jumped at the chance to get back into motorcycles.
I have plenty of history with Kawasaki, even though my love was my Valkyrie. Anyway I thought we'd be nearly bulletproof with the 250.

(Currently )
250 is in the garage - and after mins of cranking to no avail - I used a little starting fluid in the air box - and the engine came to life and ran. I felt that this was proof that once we had carbs sorted out this would run.

We cleaned the carbs - no start
We bought a second set of carbs from eBay and dipped them.
No start.
This thing will get the head pipes warm - trip and backfire initially, but once we crank for a minute or so - that's all it does.

My son is discouraged - and I think as long as I can provide a set of steps we can get through we'll continue on this path and hopefully discover and fix the issue(s)

-so
Where would you guys start? Please - if there are applicable links include them.

Thank you in advance for help!

Oh, and do not spray starting fluid into your carbs. According to Ducatiman the stuff will destroy the rubber diaphrams in your carbs.

Bill

NaturalFlavored · July 22nd, 2017, 08:56 PM

Air leaks. When I cleaned my carbs and I put them back on, I had them a little crooked which made the air box to carbs not line up and it would crank and crank and carbs would "overflow" but not start. After draining them and fixing the air leak it started right up. Make sure all hoses don't have holes and everything is setup correctly.
Second, are the float bowls filling up with gas? Put on clear fuel lines and see if you have a good flow of gas. Then you'll know if it's a petcock issue or something blocking the fuel from flowing.
Also, you never said if you did a tune-up, plugs, oil/filter, air filter etc. Make sure the valves are adjusted too. I learned that they need to be checked every 6k miles.

Cshark · July 23rd, 2017, 05:30 AM

Thank you for the salutations!

Ok - let's set the stage, clear up some understanding.
1) the bike was rough when we got it so we have it pretty much stripped of fairings, air box, etc.
2) we have cleaned carbs and placed them back on the bike for testing - without the air box
3) Petcock is flowing fuel, bowls have fuel
4) tank is currently open to atmosphere - filler cap was trashed by screwdriver. We keep the tank covered to protect it from stuff falling in until we get to that part of the project.
5) we DID shoot starter fluid into carbs hoping to hear something. I can cover the air box side of the carb with my hands during cranking and feel fuel get pulled in.
6) we have pulled and checked plugs for condition and spark. ( overall good )

The original carb looked like someone tore through it with slightly wrong driver sizes( screw head messed up) which is why we opted to get a used one from eBay.

Would certainly consider sending them to ducatiman for one set back that we could trust.

Anything stand out here?
Thanks again -
Ducatiman, if you're out there...?

Ram Jet · July 23rd, 2017, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cshark

Thank you for the salutations!

Ok - let's set the stage, clear up some understanding.
1) the bike was rough when we got it so we have it pretty much stripped of fairings, air box, etc.
2) we have cleaned carbs and placed them back on the bike for testing - without the air box
3) Petcock is flowing fuel, bowls have fuel
4) tank is currently open to atmosphere - filler cap was trashed by screwdriver. We keep the tank covered to protect it from stuff falling in until we get to that part of the project.
5) we DID shoot starter fluid into carbs hoping to hear something. I can cover the air box side of the carb with my hands during cranking and feel fuel get pulled in.
6) we have pulled and checked plugs for condition and spark. ( overall good )

The original carb looked like someone tore through it with slightly wrong driver sizes( screw head messed up) which is why we opted to get a used one from eBay.

Would certainly consider sending them to ducatiman for one set back that we could trust.

Anything stand out here?
Thanks again -
Ducatiman, if you're out there...?

Click on "Ducatiman" and send him a private message;

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226815

Bill

ducatiman · July 23rd, 2017, 06:19 AM

Cshark-

a couple of choices actually:

*these are currently in stock, available https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=280844

*could also refurb one of your sets (leaving you with both runners AND spares)

i'll send a PM on further detail and contact info

I'd further urge you to visually check for strong spark in both plugs, and verify compression in both cylinders
Check valve clearances....yes, even though its not currently running.

July 22nd, 2017, 07:06 PM	#1
Cshark ninjette.org newbie Name: Chris Location: College Grove Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): 1995 Ninja 250 Posts: 2	Getting Discouraged Good evening! Me and my son purchased a 95 ninja 250 for $200. Fella said the bike had run 3 months earlier... Ok - background. ( History ) I have rebuilt a Vulcan 800 ( wife's, sold ) Reworked a Vulcan 1500 And BUBF 1500 ( persistent carb issues ) w/sidecar. Wife and I switched gears and sold our bikes - as we lived in our travel trailer while we built a house. When our son expressed an interest to ride I jumped at the chance to get back into motorcycles. I have plenty of history with Kawasaki, even though my love was my Valkyrie. Anyway I thought we'd be nearly bulletproof with the 250. (Currently ) 250 is in the garage - and after mins of cranking to no avail - I used a little starting fluid in the air box - and the engine came to life and ran. I felt that this was proof that once we had carbs sorted out this would run. We cleaned the carbs - no start We bought a second set of carbs from eBay and dipped them. No start. This thing will get the head pipes warm - trip and backfire initially, but once we crank for a minute or so - that's all it does. My son is discouraged - and I think as long as I can provide a set of steps we can get through we'll continue on this path and hopefully discover and fix the issue(s) -so Where would you guys start? Please - if there are applicable links include them. Thank you in advance for help! Last futzed with by Cshark; July 22nd, 2017 at 07:10 PM. Reason: Spelling and clarification

July 22nd, 2017, 08:04 PM	#4
Z1R rider ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Roger Location: Mitchell, South Dakota Join Date: Apr 2014 Motorcycle(s): 1978 Z1R, 1999 EX250 Posts: A lot. MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Oct '16	^^^^^ What Jim said...the carbs can be a bit of a pain, I had one that needed the carbs cleaned and I had them on and off half a dozen times before I got them clean and the float needle to seal. (that took new needles) The petcocks are also a sore spot on these (and other) bikes, some people rebuild and some just buy new. The fuel tank vent (integral part of the fuel cap) is also known to plug and cause problems. You almost certainly have a fuel delivery problem, but don't give up, if worse comes to worse @ducatiman has been known to have rebuilt carbs on the shelf and if not can rebuild yours. Welcome to the board! __________________________________________________

July 23rd, 2017, 06:19 AM	#9
ducatiman ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Gordon Location: new york Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): '95 DUCATI 900SS/SP '07 DUCATI SS800 '19 HONDA CBR650R Posts: A lot. MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17	Cshark- a couple of choices actually: these are currently in stock, available https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=280844 could also refurb one of your sets (leaving you with both runners AND spares) i'll send a PM on further detail and contact info I'd further urge you to visually check for strong spark in both plugs, and verify compression in both cylinders Check valve clearances....yes, even though its not currently running. __________________________________________________ gordon@customcarbservices.com Custom Carb Service www.customcarbservices.com
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

July 22nd, 2017, 07:24 PM	#2
Triple Jim Guy Who Enjoys Riding Name: Jim Location: North Carolina Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16	My first guess is that you haven't yet gotten a truly clean and functional set of carbs on it. I say that because the starting fluid got it going. If you can do a complete job, do that and see if that fixes it. If you're not comfortable taking them down the the very last screw and cleaning every tiny passage thoroughly, get a hold of Ducatiman here on the board. He's known for very high quality rebuilds at reasonable prices. Edit: I almost forgot... Welcome to the board Chris, it's good to meet you.

July 22nd, 2017, 08:56 PM	#6
NaturalFlavored ninjette.org guru Name: J Location: Tucson Join Date: May 2017 Motorcycle(s): 250r Posts: 254	Air leaks. When I cleaned my carbs and I put them back on, I had them a little crooked which made the air box to carbs not line up and it would crank and crank and carbs would "overflow" but not start. After draining them and fixing the air leak it started right up. Make sure all hoses don't have holes and everything is setup correctly. Second, are the float bowls filling up with gas? Put on clear fuel lines and see if you have a good flow of gas. Then you'll know if it's a petcock issue or something blocking the fuel from flowing. Also, you never said if you did a tune-up, plugs, oil/filter, air filter etc. Make sure the valves are adjusted too. I learned that they need to be checked every 6k miles.

July 23rd, 2017, 05:30 AM	#7
Cshark ninjette.org newbie Name: Chris Location: College Grove Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): 1995 Ninja 250 Posts: 2	Thank you for the salutations! Ok - let's set the stage, clear up some understanding. 1) the bike was rough when we got it so we have it pretty much stripped of fairings, air box, etc. 2) we have cleaned carbs and placed them back on the bike for testing - without the air box 3) Petcock is flowing fuel, bowls have fuel 4) tank is currently open to atmosphere - filler cap was trashed by screwdriver. We keep the tank covered to protect it from stuff falling in until we get to that part of the project. 5) we DID shoot starter fluid into carbs hoping to hear something. I can cover the air box side of the carb with my hands during cranking and feel fuel get pulled in. 6) we have pulled and checked plugs for condition and spark. ( overall good ) The original carb looked like someone tore through it with slightly wrong driver sizes( screw head messed up) which is why we opted to get a used one from eBay. Would certainly consider sending them to ducatiman for one set back that we could trust. Anything stand out here? Thanks again - Ducatiman, if you're out there...?