Not taking the MSF just scheduling to get my lic

[Stingray1000]

Anything I should know to pass the road test???

[Jiggles]

How long have you been riding?

Take the MSF, it's just easier

[Stingray1000]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

How long have you been riding?

Take the MSF, it's just easier

Just about everyday since November.

[Jiggles]

From your other post about 1600 miles on the odometer, I'll assume this is your first bike, take the MSF so you don't go into a turn and come out of it flying off a cliff

[Stingray1000]

Originally Posted by trixter

you should know the skills they teach in the MSF course.

Off hand I dont know what Delaware requires for getting licensed, the MSF course also goes into other info that can be helpful to know like what to do when you are going 90 down the 95 and a 2x4 falls out of the truck in front of you and there are cars on either side.

I've actually read the manual for Delaware and it covers all those points. I was jsut wondering if there is anyhting they might suprise me with LOL

[Jiggles]

How are you with u-turns inside a small box?

[Stingray1000]

Yea this is my first bike, and I put most of those miles on it, Just didn't want to spend the money on the MSF I'm considering it. I jsut don't have the time when they want to have it.......

[Stingray1000]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

How are you with u-turns inside a small box?

Not bad at all

[Jiggles]

How many miles did you get your bike with?

[Malicious Logic]

Nah, you don't need no MSF. People in the crashed section all probably had it LOL. Look what happened to them. Just wing it.

[Goom]

It's not that terrible. I still recommend the MSF course. I personally didn't take it, but I'm still considering it.

[Luvninja]

If your worried about what they're going to test you on then take the MSF course.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Luvninja

If your worried about what they're going to test you on then take the MSF course.

^^^^ this

[Miles_Prower]

Originally Posted by Stingray1000

Yea this is my first bike, and I put most of those miles on it, Just didn't want to spend the money on the MSF I'm considering it. I jsut don't have the time when they want to have it.......

just pretend you live in PA..it's freeeee hahaha.

[csmith12]

Hmmm... thought about this some more.

Honestly though, one should MAKE the time to ensure their safety and develop a proper skill set for an activity they will spend so much time enjoying.

The MSF isn't the ONLY way to get the basic skills. Do you have a rider that would be willing to mentor you for a while? Books, videos and inet forums will only get you so far before you will have to reach out for some 1 on 1 help.

[diablos991]

You can also schedule a private session with the MSF instructors if your schedule is funky.
It will cost you more though.

[xSean13]

I work every weekend and as a college student...I do not get up early (usually around 8:30 or 9:00) But it's just one weekend. Took off work & woke up around 6, to get to the place at 8:00. There really isn't any excuse not to take it.

[sze5003]

I would take the course. I don't know how much it is where you live, in PA its free. The dmv site says the test consists of left circles, right circles, and figure 8's, at least in PA.

I won't trust that so I'm taking the MSF.

[DevinWolfe]

Originally Posted by Stingray1000

Yea this is my first bike, and I put most of those miles on it, Just didn't want to spend the money on the MSF I'm considering it. I jsut don't have the time when they want to have it.......

MSF is cheaper than an ER visit if you get hurt and still cheaper than fairings if you don't.

The fact that you made this thread concerned about what will be tested is enough evidence by itself to tell you that you *should* make time to take it.

Many experienced riders still pick things up for low speed handling at MSF BRC.

[sze5003]

Originally Posted by DevinWolfe

Many experienced riders still pick things up for low speed handling at MSF BRC.

This alone is why I can't wait to take it and I've never rode a motorcycle. I will be making slow turns everywhere around my streets so it will be handy.

[CalvinAmI]

No way. Save yourself the grief of doing the MSF thang. It's all stuff you already know really. (riding since November and all). You probably know all the important skills, maybe not to the picky MSF instructors standards. BUT HEY! Who needs to know how to quick-stop from 25mph within 5 feet without highsiding. And SERIOUSLY... where in the driving world do you have to do a double u-turn in a rectangle? S-curve into a right-handed swerve to a emergency stop. Junk you already know and are prepared for and all. I'm sure you wont freeze up when that $hit hits the fan.
I say go for the drivers test, fail it, cry in front of them & they'll give you 50% off the MSF, make time in your schedule for the course, learn all you can and enjoy the hell out of riding with a skill-set you can improve upon daily! =)


EDIT: sorry if it seems like i am attacking those that don't opt for the MSF over taking the drivers test.
I've actually had this very conversation with a friend who had a little bit of road experience. He had a very close call and had a low speed getoff.
After that, he decided to take the MSF. He was already very familiar with the majority of the skills they teach.
But, this was an EXCELLENT opportunity to get some of his questions about certain scenarios answered.
Also, he was able to prove to himself that he has mastered these basic skills thus improving his confidence on the road.
He has now signed up for the advanced class later this summer =)

Think about it.
Stay safe and have fun out there!

[Toly]

The problem with MSF is that it's too generic, too basic, and not terribly useful even to a moderately experienced rider. The booklet is a decent read, but if you have some experience riding in the streets, you need to understand MSF limitations, and go beyond them.

For one, the manual advocates using both brakes in an emergency. While in general it sounds like a good idea, it's wrong for Ninjette and many sportbikes - the rear brake will hardly add any valuable stopping distance, but using the rear brake and remembering to deal with very possible rear wheel lockup (by doing nothing) will detract enough from your attention that you need focused elsewhere.

Second, it doesn't address throttle control in the corner very well - in fact, the proper amount of throttle in turns is crucially important - as well as dealing with fear of taking a corner "too fast" and proper reaction - but this is not addressed.

In general, it's a decent starting reference for street riding, but at this stage you are probably beyond it, and can be better served by other literature, and by practicing stuff on your own.

[drvr5]

Riders who have taken an MSF course are about 90% less likely to be involved in a fatal crash (can't remember where I saw that statistic) and the insurance break is big. You'll probably know the majority of the material covered, but there will be some things that you didn't realize were important that you didn't know. Take the test to get legal, then take the class to get the insurance break and keen a few things. It'll pay for itself.
Posted via Mobile Device

[xSean13]

Insurance break is nice. I pay $100 a year for full coverage + up to $3000 in accessories + road-side assistance. After 4 consecutive claim-free periods, deductibles are $0. Progressive disappearing deductibles ftw.

[Miles_Prower]

Originally Posted by drvr5

Riders who have taken an MSF course are about 90% less likely to be involved in a fatal crash (can't remember where I saw that statistic) and the insurance break is big. You'll probably know the majority of the material covered, but there will be some things that you didn't realize were important that you didn't know. Take the test to get legal, then take the class to get the insurance break and keen a few things. It'll pay for itself.
Posted via Mobile Device

i feel that the statistic is skewed. not saying that it's because people don't learn valuable skills, but maybe because riders who take the MSF course are a bit more into safety and caution from the start. Most of the people at my MSF course were either responsible adults, or new riders (like myself) that said they wouldn't ride until taking the course.
just pondering lol

[massacremasses]

posting that here was the perfect way to get flamed.


that being said I took it. I thought it was good to take. To each their own, its your life do what you want.

[koenigcitizen]

MSF is worth it.

You might be surprised what you learn. If you are self taught, I bet you have some bad habits.

[Stingray1000]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

posting that here was the perfect way to get flamed.


that being said I took it. I thought it was good to take. To each their own, its your life do what you want.

Flame or not, Having all the information is better then doing everything on your own. Teachers always told me "No question is a dumb question" Just sayin'

[massacremasses]

I wasnt flaming, I was just telling you everyone is super pro MSF here. Like I said, I dont really care one way or the other. Just dont die or youll make me look bad

[BlackNinja8]

I agree with @Toly. While taking the BRC won't hurt you, there are more efficient ways to spend the money. When it comes to BRC drills you are often at the mercy of the worst rider in your group. Meaning if you are doing a drill meant to be conducted at 25mph and someone 4 bikes in front of you is sputtering and stalling, you may only be able to enter the turn at 15mph and just end up simulating what is supposed to be a crucial excersize. Plus15% of the riding time deals with very basic stuff like finding the friction zone, low speed braking in a straight line, rolling stops, etc.

I spent $325 on my BRC and I would say that I got nothing out of 15% of the time I spent on the bike. For that money I may have been better off taking the license test on my own and hiring an instructor for a small group intermediate lesson.

I would 100% recommend the course for a noob, but if you have some experience, more focused training might make you a better rider than taking the MSF.

[Makenza]

Originally Posted by xSean13

Insurance break is nice. I pay $100 a year for full coverage + up to $3000 in accessories + road-side assistance. After 4 consecutive claim-free periods, deductibles are $0. Progressive disappearing deductibles ftw.

Wack! Progressive here in cali does NOT have this. :|

[Makenza]

I've checked the website, they don't have the disappearing deductible, should I call and ask about it?

[alex.s]

take the msf. if you already know how to ride, use it as a chance to practice higher level skills. ask as many questions as possible. you will only not learn something if you arent paying attention. it is invaluable.

[xSean13]

Originally Posted by Makenza

I've checked the website, they don't have the disappearing deductible, should I call and ask about it?

Here, it only applies to full vehicle coverage, and it's 25% reduction in the deductible per claim-free period, so 4 consecutive ones = 0 deductible

Originally Posted by trixter

I got a letter from them yesterday talking about how its $1 more for it. Maybe it was an email. Yeah if you ask they should be able to tell you.

Each year you do not have any claims they drop a percentage off your deductible. I think it is 25% but I may be mistaken. This can mean you can get the cheaper $1000 deductible but have it perform like the more expensive no deductible plans.

Exactly. And from just liability upgraded to full coverage w/ $1,000 deductibles, it's only $39 more a year (for me... here in TN)

[Miles_Prower]

i was wondering what claim-free includes.
anyone know if that includes claims that were cancelled with 0 payout?

[gfloyd2002]

Some useful studies show that training is a key factor in accident avoidance, and that you may be in a high risk group for accidents. You may wish to consider these in your decision whether or not to take the MSF course:

• Motorcycle riders involved in accidents are essentially without training; 92% were self-taught or learned from family or friends. Motorcycle rider training experience reduces accident involvement and is related to reduced injuries in the event of accidents. (Hurt Report)
• Riders who took rider training were more likely to try some sort of avoidance maneuver, such as braking or swerving. Untrained riders were more likely to sit there and crash without doing anything to prevent it. Riders without correct licenses crashed more than riders who were properly licensed. (MAIDS study)
• Others have also noted that formally trained riders had a lower incidence of accidents than riders who were untrained (McKnight, Safety Renewal 6 1987; Rothe & Cooper, 1987).
• Another study found significant differences between formally trained riders and untrained riders at a 6-month follow up but not one or two years after the training program (Billheimer, 1996), likely showing that regular renewals of training and reminders of key points was worthwhile, regardless of experience level.
• Similarly, According to Rothe and Cooper (1987), because safe motorcycle riding is dependent on realistic attitudes toward risk taking and mental alertness, frequent reinforcement of safety-oriented attitudes may be essential, regardless of experience level.
• Motorcycle riders between the ages of 16 and 24 are significantly over-represented in accidents; motorcycle riders between the ages of 30 and 50 are significantly under represented. (Hurt Report)
• More than half of the accident-involved motorcycle riders had less than 5 months experience on the accident motorcycle. (Hurt Report)
• Rutter and Quine (1996) found that motorcycle accidents were three times more common when the rider was under 20 years of age. Other studies have found that if the rider is young and male, the chance of being involved in an accident increases (Lin, Chang, Pai, & Keyl, 2003).

This seems to indicate that more practice, and formal training would be in your interest.

[CmichRider]

I'm going to take the middle-road here and just give my opinion. Take it for what it is. I believe that you can be a great rider with or without MSF. You will learn how the bike performs and what you should and should not do, just with experience. MSF puts you in those situations-like the emergency stop, short-radius u-turn, and teaches you to look through the turn, not applying the brakes during one. I think that those are things you can pick up on through riding.

I enjoyed my MSF course, but I left it wanting more. That's why I have the advance rider course in two weeks. Taking the MSF did not instantly make me immune to crashing, like it seems so many people act like it does. It makes you more aware, not even necessarily a better rider.

[Sigma.40]

In reality, only you can decide whether its worth it. Personally, I HATED the msf brc (luckily its only $25 in MI). They didn't cover anything that I did not already know. However, I was extremely thorough in my learning and practice with probably 100 hours spent practicing, watching videos and reading how-tos before I even thought about touching the road. You have to weigh how comfortable you feel with your current skills against how much the course is and if you have the time available for it.

[gfloyd2002]

In reality, whether someone subjectively believes they want to participate in rider training has nothing do with whether it is worth it or not. Research says it is.

That same research would say that a young, inexperienced rider who advocates riding over 100 mph on the streets, taking non-track corners at 55, not taking rider training - all of which you've done this week, Sigma - is at a pretty high risk of hurting himself. It was as recently as last month, IIRC, that you were asking whether you should shift into 6th gear at 28mph. Not trying to pile on here, but you aren't exactly the portrait of experience or good safety sense to be giving another new rider advice.

[Sigma.40]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

In reality, whether someone subjectively believes they want to participate in rider training has nothing do with whether it is worth it or not. Research says it is.

That same research would say that a young, inexperienced rider who advocates riding over 100 mph on the streets, taking non-track corners at 55, not taking rider training - all of which you've done this week, Sigma - is at a pretty high risk of hurting himself. It was as recently as last month, IIRC, that you were asking whether you should shift into 6th gear at 28mph. Not trying to pile on here, but you aren't exactly the portrait of experience or good safety sense to be giving another new rider advice.

1. 100 mph on a straight well maintained backroad without traffic.
2. Yes on a 55+ mph road, I will take the curves at 55 mph. I fail to see the problem.
3. Not taking rider training? The thread that you are refering to is me complaining about my time spent TAKING RIDER TRAINING
4. As for shifting into 6th at 28 mph, I am not mechanically savvy and I misread the manual and was worried I was damaging the transmission by shifting later. Has absolutely nothing to do with safety.
5. As for "young", I'm 30, with a wife and an 11 year old daughter. Please don't make it sound like I am an 18 year old. I may only have 2000 miles on a bike, but much of the common sense and skills I've aquired in other areas have transfered over.

I've never told anyone not to take the course. I simply gave my opinion on my experience as others have. I did dislike MSF and am not going to pretend otherwise. As for MY safety, you let my safety be my concern. Be confident that I would never do anything I wasn't prepared for or comfortable with and I especially wouldn't do anything that could harm other people. You are the one that brought up 100 MPH, and the rest. I've never "advocated" any of it. I simply stated in another thread what I've enjoyed doing.

-You also seem to have left out all the parts where I've said that the BRC would be great for a person with no riding experience. I've also stated interest in more advanced courses and continue to look in my area for them. I have also recommended those to people who are more comfortable with their skills. If you are going to go back and bring up all my previous posts, lets not be quite so one-sided.