January 20th, 2021, 05:22 PM | #1 |
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Name: Fer
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Turned on key ignition switch and nothing happened!!
Hi everyone!! I have a big problem with my Ninja 250r 2009 (carb no ecu).
When I turn on the key ignition switch nothing happen, all is deth. Battery it's ok 12,5v, all fuse ok and the 30A fuse too it's ok. All connectors and wiring are ok, nothing broken or touching ground. When I disconnect the indicators panel connector, I turn on the key and I have position light on the tail and turn ligths too, but only that. I suspect that the problem would be the CDI or CI (ignition controller), but I dont know how to test it. If the CDI won't work the ingnition key do nothing? Any ideas?? Thanks!!!!
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January 20th, 2021, 08:45 PM | #2 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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Measure the battery voltage on the actual battery terminals while you're trying to start it.
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January 20th, 2021, 09:05 PM | #3 |
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Ok thanks, but what's would be happend or be the sense of doing that?
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January 20th, 2021, 10:46 PM | #4 |
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Will tell you condition of battery.
Do you know how to measure resistance with multimeter? |
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January 21st, 2021, 05:38 AM | #5 | |
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Name: Fer
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Quote:
To test the battery what I have to see on a multimeter? Thanks!!
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January 21st, 2021, 05:48 AM | #6 | |
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Quote:
Just read the battery voltage while you're trying to start the engine and tell us what it was. It needs to stay up a volt or so from what it was before you tried to start it. Always start with the easy tests. |
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January 21st, 2021, 06:00 AM | #7 | |
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Quote:
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January 21st, 2021, 06:50 AM | #8 | |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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Quote:
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January 21st, 2021, 07:28 AM | #9 | |
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Quote:
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January 21st, 2021, 07:28 AM | #10 |
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I vote that the battery is toast.
Doesn't matter how old it is, or that it worked yesterday. They will quit without warning. |
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January 21st, 2021, 09:13 AM | #11 | |
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Quote:
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January 21st, 2021, 09:22 AM | #12 | |
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Quote:
I'm not agree at all.. battery can fail but not without warning in my experience. When the battery is going to die you note low amperage on start. In this case I rpobe that the battery is not dead when I disconnect the dashboard. Battery voltage is the same when I turn on the key 12,3v.
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January 21st, 2021, 10:59 AM | #13 |
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OK so we finally got past the battery as the cause of the trouble!
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January 21st, 2021, 11:34 AM | #14 | |
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Quote:
Does activating on/off kill-switch and pushing start-button work to crank enging when you've disconnected dash? we might need to test for shorts in dash circuits next.... Any non-stock mods to wiring? |
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January 21st, 2021, 11:37 AM | #15 |
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Exactly any other idea? Do you kbow how to test the CDI?
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January 21st, 2021, 11:39 AM | #16 | |
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Quote:
There should be some difference between the voltage with and without the ignition on. What happens when you hit the button? Does the voltage change? Is there any clicking? 12.3V (no load) is only about 65% charged. With the starter motor cranking you should still get over 10V on a fully charged battery. |
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January 21st, 2021, 12:51 PM | #17 | ||
FDA
Name: Fer
Location: Argentina
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Quote:
Quote:
Yes, I isolated the fuel indicators and tachometer and the same problem.. Nothing... I have led turn lights but are disconnected with the firings.. and I have a teillight with turn lights embedded but is working fine..
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January 21st, 2021, 12:57 PM | #18 |
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January 21st, 2021, 01:03 PM | #19 | |
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Quote:
Ok 12.3v is not fully charged but the dash should be on.. I can charge it at all, I have a charger but I don't believe that this is the problem..
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January 21st, 2021, 01:54 PM | #20 | |
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Quote:
Start tracing power/resistance from the fuse to the dash. Seems as though there is a broken wire or open connection somewhere. |
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January 21st, 2021, 03:03 PM | #21 | |
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Name: Fer
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Quote:
A good test will be to remove the CDI on a working Ninja 250r and see if the dash turn on when the key is on. But I don't have another Ninja 250r jajaj
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January 21st, 2021, 05:43 PM | #22 | |
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Nah, igniter and dash don't depend on each other for anything; power supplies and grounds are completely independent.
Quote:
1. When turn-signals flash with dash disconnected, do all FOUR flash at same time? Or can you do separate left & right signals? 2. Remove LED turn-signals and re-install OEM incandescent bulbs in. Any other non-stock mods? Restore bike and wiring back to 100% stock OEM condition. When that is done, everything will work properly. 3. Are you using original ignition-switch that came with bike? 4. How did you determine, "all fuse ok and the 30A fuse too it's ok. All connectors and wiring are ok,"? Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; January 22nd, 2021 at 10:53 AM. |
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January 22nd, 2021, 06:57 AM | #23 |
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I don't believe the ignition (CDI) is part of the problem.
As Danno noted - is the ignition switch original? Have you installed any replacement electrical parts? If you follow Danno's instructions you will locate the problem eventually. |
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January 22nd, 2021, 07:19 AM | #24 |
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I can tell you for sure that CDI is never a problem in a stock Ninja 250.
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January 22nd, 2021, 08:31 AM | #25 | |
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Quote:
There are solder joints and physical, moving electrical contacts housed within the switch, which should be eliminated from the troubleshooting process sooner than later, IMHO.
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January 22nd, 2021, 08:32 AM | #26 | |
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Quote:
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January 22nd, 2021, 08:39 AM | #27 | |
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Quote:
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January 22nd, 2021, 08:40 AM | #28 |
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For me it would be a relief!
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January 22nd, 2021, 08:50 AM | #29 |
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Fully your call , but a continuity check on the switch not invasive nor destructive in any sense. Hammer not exactly required, ya' know?
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January 22nd, 2021, 08:59 AM | #30 |
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More or less, to get to the ignition key cables I need to puncture the cable because otherwise I have to disassemble the switch :/
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January 22nd, 2021, 10:02 AM | #31 | |
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Quote:
No need to puncture wires to measure, just back-probe connectors: From studying schematic, I can't figure out how dash can possibly disable turn-signal lights. I suspect there's some non-stock wiring done somewhere. It could be there's criss-crossed reverse-polarity wiring done somewhere so that +12v is connected to ground of turn-signals with dash plugged in. One-way flow of LED would prevent current from flowing and blowing fuse. But it would also prevent LED from lighting up. This is similar to how alternator charge-lamps are triggered on autos with +12v going into both sides of bulb. If you remove ALL non-stock wiring and restore to 100% OEM wiring, bike will run perfect. If not, we do A LOT of testing... 1. First, show us photos of how you have LED lights connected to factory harness. And anything else that's not 100% factory. It's some modification away from stock that caused this problem, we need to inspect all mods. Even a piece of aftermarket electrical tape used to tie wires together needs to be documented. Let's leave dash disconnected for now. Find wire-bundle leaving ignition-switch and trace it to 1st connector. Back-probe ignition-switch harness-side connector. Use test-lead w/alligator-clip to keep ground-probe of multimeter connected to battery-ground. Frees up one of 3-hands needed. 2. KEY OFF BR = voltage ?? W = voltage ?? R/BL = voltage ?? W/BK = voltage ?? W/G = voltage ?? GY = voltage ?? 3. KEY ON BR = voltage ?? W = voltage ?? R/BL = voltage ?? W/BK = voltage ?? W/G = voltage ?? GY = voltage ?? 4. KEY ON, backprobe fuse-box W/G = voltage ??? O/G = voltage ??? BR/W = voltage ??? BR/BK = voltage ??? R/BL = voltage ??? GY = voltage ??? BR = voltage ??? W/BL = voltage ??? W = voltage ??? The states of these lines should give more clues to where problem lies. These also includes continuity tests ducatiman mentioned. Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; January 22nd, 2021 at 06:27 PM. |
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January 22nd, 2021, 10:22 AM | #32 |
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Again, easiest and fastest fix is to restore wiring back to 100% stock condition with incandescent bulbs. Bike worked 100% when it left showroom floor with OEM harness, and it will again once harness is restored to 100% OEM. It was mods that broke it, and undoing mods will restore to working condtion.
Once it's back to 100% factory condition and working, I'll show you how to wiring in LED lamps properly so it works with factory wiring. Unlike incandescent bulbs, LEDs are polarity-sensitive and can only be wired in one way. If you've cut factory wiring to install LED, you need to restore factory wiring connectors to factory condition. Get: 2x female 2-position HB050 male connectors (1 blue, 1 orange) 4x male 2-position HB050 female connectors (2 blue, 2 orange) http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__...onnectors.html I know, it's Honda colours, but is same connectors as black & grey used by Kawi. Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; January 22nd, 2021 at 04:01 PM. |
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January 22nd, 2021, 04:44 PM | #33 | ||||
FDA
Name: Fer
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No, flash at normal speed.
Quote:
Yes I need, I understand that you say and I know that, but I don't want to remove the fuel tank. If I want to know if there is continuity to the key without dessasemble it, I need to puncture the cable close to the key to know if the issue is inside or not the key. Quote:
In short, now if I connect the dash I have front and rear turns with the turn signal indicator in the dash (green light) and nothing else. If I disconnect the dash I have front and rear turns and also stop and brake lights and nothing else. When I say nothing else I want to say that the rest buttons, lights etc doesn't work at all. Quote:
https://d114hh0cykhyb0.cloudfront.ne...jpg&w=585&zc=2 I have a taillight similar to this: https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/...q7v/s-l300.jpg Quote:
Ok I will try to do that but do you know the color of the cable according the wiring diagram?
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January 22nd, 2021, 05:09 PM | #34 | |
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Name: Fer
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Quote:
Something I never mentioned is how the problem started. I went out for a ride with my girlfriend and left the motorcycle parked. When I return I try to start and only hear the starter motor but it does not start (sometimes it happens to me and turning the key off and then on it works fine). So I turn off the key, turn on and it start. After 3/5 seconds it turns off and I try the same thing again while go down the sidewalk and that's where I ran out of dash and had to call a motorcycle crane because I could not find the problem since everything I could try seemed to be fine... Now I´m at home trying to repair that
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January 22nd, 2021, 05:21 PM | #35 |
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"turning the key off and then on it works fine"
Red flag! Intermittent electrical connection needs to be eliminated. You really sure you don't want to do that internal ignition switch circuit check?
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January 22nd, 2021, 05:32 PM | #36 |
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Yes! it's not that, it's that I don't have the tool to open the drum of the key and I don't know how to remove and open it
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January 22nd, 2021, 05:46 PM | #37 |
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Well, at this point, it appears ignition-switch is intermittent. To replace, you'll have to remove tank anyway.
I takes no more than 30-sec to remove tank. Imagine being able to fix your problem in 5-minutes. All it takes it removing tank. While you have tank off, do those tests I outlined above. While you wait for new ignition-switch to arrive. |
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January 22nd, 2021, 05:52 PM | #38 | |
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This is different bug separate from ignition-switch.
Quote:
There is major wiring issue because turn-signals DO NOT depend upon dash. Only connection between turn-signals and dash is indicator-light on dash when turn-signals are activated. Two wires only. Plugging dash in should NOT disable any lights. Until you fix wiring and restore to 100% OEM configuration where ALL lights work with dash connected, there's no way we can fix any of it. Too many unknowns. Need more data and you are only one that can provide that data by measuring. This is different problem than ignition-switch, and may require you to remove more than just tank. Might need to remove engine and crankshaft as well. |
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January 22nd, 2021, 05:55 PM | #39 |
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That said, you do not understand procedure. No need to open switch, you are testing continuity (again see wiring schem that danno posted) between termiinals within the connectors after being disconnected from harness.
The switch comprised of the lock section (upper) and electrical section (lower) I'd be mighty suspicious of intermittent wiring connections within, memory serves there are both soldered terminals and a moving contact plate inside there.
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January 22nd, 2021, 05:57 PM | #40 | |
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