Bike completely dead - no electrical

[headshrink]

Wife is on the way with tools, light, manual, etc. But at the moment I'm stranded at work and this thing is my only transportation.

Problem = As soon as I hit the starter button, I heard a noise. It was a single click, maybe a pop,..... I only heard it once, so it's hard to say what it was. The noise definitely came from the back half of the bike (possibly tail, but not positive). Thinking I may not have hit the button long enough, I hit it again and.... nothing. Then I noticed ALL the indicator lights were dead.

I checked the 30A fuse, and it's all good. I have the BRT TIS installed, and think that may have died on me . If that's the case, it's fortunate I have the original OEM igniter, and it's on the list of things for wife to bring.

Any tips or ideas will be greatly appreciated. Those that know me know I do all my own work, but don't really KNOW a ton about these things... it's mostly DIYs, trial & error.

[Old Lemon]

the only pops i hear on start up are the rare miss fires (i think thats what they are called) where the exhaust just makes a huge pop. other than that idk sorry i couldnt be any help

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Old Lemon

the only pops i hear on start up are the rare miss fires (i think thats what they are called) where the exhaust just makes a huge pop. other than that idk sorry i couldn't be any help

Yeah, it definitely wasn't that.

[Jiggles]

Your battery is dead, the click is some thingymajig in the starter, someone will come in and clarify that.

Good news though, you can fix the bike without any tools! Just push start it and ride it for half an hour. Heres a guide

Link to original page on YouTube.

If you can go fast enough (10mph) do it in 2nd or 3rd. If you can only go 5mph do it in first

[geeker]

Did you check all the other fuses?

[csmith12]

Simple stuff first, fuses & battery connections.

[headshrink]

The main 30a fuse, and IG fuse in the little box looks good.

Battery reads 12.9v

Also, plugging in the OEM CDI didn't do anything.

[headshrink]

I'm trying to test the ignition relay, but am really dumb at this.... looking at the manual, but don't know what to set the multimeter at, and manual refers to an infinity vs. 0reading, but dont' know that that would be on the display....

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by headshrink

Battery reads 12.9v

Means nothing if not under load.

If you measure it while cranking the starter and the volts fall close to nothing, the battery is dead.

I would try what Jiggles has suggested or would jump start the bike from a car (not running engine !!).

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_...attery_is_dead

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to_...ike_from_a_car

[Jiggles]

Push start the bike.....

[headshrink]

Ignition relay seems fine too..... as far as I could tell. It clicks when you connect it directly to the battery, reads 1 w/o power, and 0 under power (on the multi meter).

I'll try push or jump start to satisfy you guys, but I'm nearly certain the battery is good.... but I'm hoping to come back so you can all tell me you told me so

There is no weak cranking, because it is 100% lifeless. The dash (including my little gear indicator LED gauge) is completely dead too. It was all on until I hit the ignition that one time, then it all went dead.

[Asspire]

if its a relay, just tap it to "shock" into working. Are any lights coming on? brake? turn signals?

[Jiggles]

Cmon guys!

push start it
Push start it
Push Start it
Push Start It
PUSH START IT
PUSH START IT!
PUSH START IT!!!

[Asspire]

i did that yesterday for shits n giggles, was surprised how easy it was.

did u check the mini fuses ?

[bfpower]

I'd take Jiggles' advice to just get it home, then take a look at fuses and relays. A pop and then nothing (not even another pop) sure sounds like a fuse.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Asspire

if its a relay, just tap it to "shock" into working. Are any lights coming on? brake? turn signals?

No lights whatsoever... however, it is now dark, and after pushing I saw the faintest light on the oil light.... so faint I thought at first it was a reflection form the street light. After my emergency burger goes into effect, I'll try pushing again, or just jump it from wife's truck.

I tried, but pushing wasn't very effective because having not eating in 12 hrs, I was afraid I would drop it jumping on.... I tried, but wasn't moving very fast when I hopped on.

Yes, fuses also looked good.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by bfpower

I'd take Jiggles' advice to just get it home, then take a look at fuses and relays. A pop and then nothing (not even another pop) sure sounds like a fuse.

Yes, one pop (or click, not sure which).

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by headshrink

No lights whatsoever... however, it is now dark, and after pushing I saw the faintest light on the oil light.... so faint I thought at first it was a reflection form the street light. After my emergency burger goes into effect, I'll try pushing again, or just jump it from wife's truck.

I tried, but pushing wasn't very effective because having not eating in 12 hrs, I was afraid I would drop it jumping on.... I tried, but wasn't moving very fast when I hopped on.

Yes, fuses also looked good.

Y U NO WATCH MY VIDEO!?

Cmon man, if a guy who can't walk for more than 5 minutes can push start this bike then

Link to original page on YouTube.

[headshrink]

Yeah, I actually did watch your vid, and was impressed how easy it was.... but alas, I'll need a push. Going to jump off the car, and hopefully my next response will be from home.

[csmith12]

Best of luck Bob!

[Alex]

Good luck, Bob!

[headshrink]

Well, I am writing from home, but my bike is not here .

With a little help I was able to push start it, BUT it had "issues." The lights and RPM stayed very low, even when it was warmed up. I also noticed the tach was pegged all the way right, and when I touched the throttle might jiggle a little erratically. When I tried to give it gas, it really wouldn't rev.... too much would kill it, and anything less would make it feel like it was knocking inside. I tried this with both the OEM CDI, and the BRT TIS units. They acted a little differently, but essentially did the same crazy stuff. On a whim I checked both header pipes, and they where both hot..... I don't know if that actually tells you if both cylinders are running, but it's all I got.

Next I hooked it up to the truck, and it fired right up and acted normally. I let it run for a few minutes while hooked to the truck, and then disconnected the jumpers. As soon as I did the lights on the bike got really dim, and the engine idle got really weak.

At this point I was too tired to wait for a tow so I left it there. Actually I tried to push it into the office, but it wouldn't round a hallway corner. It was interesting trying to back it out.... what a day.

Soooo... I haven't a clue at this point. Does it still sound like the battery? Charging issue? Diode, rectifier, or other electrical?

[Jiggles]

Yes, your battery is dead, the tach goes wacko when the battery is weak like that

Honestly it sounds fine to me just a dead battery

[k-os]

Have you checked all the grounds? Battery negative and the ground to the frame?

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Yes, your battery is dead, the tach goes wacko when the battery is weak like that

Honestly it sounds fine to me just a dead battery

I sure hope you're right; and if so I'm going to send you the REAL pictures as a prize for solving my problem.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by k-os

Have you checked all the grounds? Battery negative and the ground to the frame?

As far as I know I did. They seemed fine to me.

[KELPHYN]

Big clue was when hooked to the truck battery, EVERYTHING WORKED! Good chance it's the battery or the main battery leads. Take your battery with you, if your getting a new battery, and have them do a load test just to make sure that it is the battery; before you buy a new one.

[dubojr1]

I think Jiggles has this one right. I dealt with similar issues on a buddies 250 that stranded him at work. The dummy lights, tach, and speedo will do weird things when your battery is dead or more likely what I like to called "killed". We were able to get his bike started by push starting and it ran really rough on the commute to his house. I had him replace the battery the following day and that was the fix.

[Alex]

Yup. Shorted/failed battery.

[Asspire]

Sounds like a battery. Did you check the voltage drop on the battery? It was 12.9 when you checked, was the key on or off?

[red5]

Originally Posted by headshrink

Problem = As soon as I hit the starter button, I heard a noise. It was a single click, maybe a pop,..... I only heard it once, so it's hard to say what it was. The noise definitely came from the back half of the bike (possibly tail, but not positive). Thinking I may not have hit the button long enough, I hit it again and.... nothing. Then I noticed ALL the indicator lights were dead.

My '09 did EXACTLY this one morning on the way to work. Dug into it later that night and I had a blown diode and a blown ignition fuse. Since the fuse blew, it would not push start despite how well I can do it Jiggles.

Replaced fuse and diode and all was well until i blew the diode again a couple of weeks later. The one in line with the starter button will get hot and fail open. You can tell its about to go because sometimes you hit the starter and nothing, try again and you're good. Other times you push the button and hold and the starter will turn after 1-2 sec. It did this for a week or so then I was done until I replaced the diode again.

This started after about a month of killing the motor by dropping the side stand. I'm still not convinced that this was the cause but the bike was fine for the first few months I owned it, then after a month of doing this, it dies. I have since started using the key instead and it hasn't happened for about 5 weeks. I've checked all of the diagrams and it doesn't seem like it should make any difference but it is the only change I've been able to isolate.

I haven't replaced the battery yet but voltage checks fine.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Asspire

Sounds like a battery. Did you check the voltage drop on the battery? It was 12.9 when you checked, was the key on or off?

It was off when it read 12.9v. When it was running off the car it read 12.5v. Unfortunately, with hungry and screaming kids in the car, I didn't have the presence of mind to get a reading when it was running without the car's assistance (obviously it would have should a dramatic drop).

Wife was kind enough to go out of town this morning and leave her car, so I get to go down to Cycle Center for a new battery before work.... and whatever else I really shouldn't buy.

Stay tuned for updates.... (hopefully happy ones)

[DennyV]

Replacing a fuse and diode is stupid... they'll just blow again.. you gotta find what caused the fuse and diode to blow, fix that then be good, Since the fuse blew, circuit resistance dropped causing current to rise, now you gotta find what caused this drop in resistance, so start looking for shorts... measure voltage in and out of the fuse, switch, load, etc if there is a big difference in voltage in and out then theres your problem

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by DennyV

Replacing a fuse and diode is stupid... they'll just blow again.. you gotta find what caused the fuse and diode to blow, fix that then be good, Since the fuse blew, circuit resistance dropped causing current to rise, now you gotta find what caused this drop in resistance, so start looking for shorts... measure voltage in and out of the fuse, switch, load, etc if there is a big difference in voltage in and out then theres your problem

Are you thinking it isn't a battery, or that something blew the battery?

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by headshrink

Are you thinking it isn't a battery, or that something blew the battery?

I'm pretty sure he's just speaking of that guys diode problem. Batteries die and sometimes it seems for no good reason. I'll be surprised if it is not the battery.

[cuong-nutz]

Another vote for the battery.

[headshrink]

Just picked up a new battery & filled it in my complex's men's room. Someone made asked about my "chemistry" experiment. It later occurred to me how strange this might look, possibly a little unnerving for some on this 9/11 anniversary. There are coincidently a couple LEO offices in the complex, which could have made for an interesting conversation. Not worried, as my dead bike will back-up my story ;p

Battery is on the B. Tender under my desk, and will be installed at my next break. Voltage was 12.89v immediately after pouring in the electrolytes.

[alex.s]

you're going to need new transflux confabulators in your anticoagulatory relays to regulate the antimater injectors better. you might go as far as to replace the entire field coil and transduction assembly. just make sure when you compress the antimater stream that the plasma is hot enough, otherwise the warp field will destabilize

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by alex.s

you're going to need new transflux confabulators in your anticoagulatory relays to regulate the antimater injectors better. you might go as far as to replace the entire field coil and transduction assembly. just make sure when you compress the antimater stream that the plasma is hot enough, otherwise the warp field will destabilize

Good advice, thanks. Hopefully my blinker fluid won't go bad in the process.

[alex.s]

dont forget to check the exhaust bearings.