N00b trying to run from cops

[dwright0723]

Link to original page on YouTube.

Skip to 2:15 for action

[Driddle]

He needs to go to more track days and work on that cornering.
He couldve killed the car in those round-a-bouts if he had any cornering skill at all.
(Note: I couldnt have done any better though. Just saying)

[fishdip]

I don't know why they did not RAM the bike more they had the chance to do it like 20 times.

[KawiKid860]

Originally Posted by fishdip

I don't know why they did not RAM the bike more they had the chance to do it like 20 times.

Uhh because that could kill or hurt him really bad?

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

Uhh because that could kill or hurt him really bad?

So you run from the cops all bets are off. If you don't want to be killed or hurt don't run.

[Kokosun]

At the time that the cops went the wrong way around the roundabout, he could've got away by heading to the right. I'm assuming that's why the driver used an expletive, because he thought that was 'chase over'.

I did find it interesting that, even after the boss said to abandon the chase, the cops continued.

[Jiggles]

Oh man, that was hilarious

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Driddle

He couldve killed the car in those round-a-bouts if he had any cornering skill at all.

disagree. cars can handle turns much faster than bikes... it's just that most drivers don't know the limits of their car.

Officer should have dropped off pursuit as instructed.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by dfox

disagree. cars can handle turns much faster than bikes... it's just that most drivers don't know the limits of their car.

Officer should have dropped off pursuit as instructed.

Hell no, chase that ****er down.

I really like how what finally got the rider was a turn I could do with no hands on the bars. Dude can't ride for ****

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Hell no, chase that ****er down.

I really like how what finally got the rider was a turn I could do with no hands on the bars. Dude can't ride for ****

it was quite humorous watching a noob trying to outrun a cop with such poor skills. He wasn't even confident enough in himself to pass cars without the road being wide open... Apparently that was an R1...dude should have left the cop in the dust LONG before he actually did.

I'm all for chasing, to an extent. Once chases start to exceed certain conditions (high speeds or crowded areas), officers are instructed to back off. Reason? because at that point you're endangering the life of lots of people on the road. That guy could have easily caused a crash, killing himself and scaring the life of innocent drivers, or worse, sending himself through someone's windshield to kill an innocent. It was specifically stated by dispatch to backoff because he was going to "drive himself to death". Officer didn't, then motorcyclist panicked while coming into a turn hot, and instead of turning, slammed on the breaks, running off the road and into a fence. They had the dude's license plate. Set an officer up at his house and arrest him there, no need to chase him to death. Officer at fault? no, not really since he was still really far behind during the crash. Officer should learn how to listen, especially when he has a dashboard camera recording all of his actions.

-From the youtube video, so who knows how accurate... "The officer driving the police car was later sentenced to pay a ticket, 19.000 SEK (€ 2000 // $ 2850). The reason was he didn´t obey order to abort pursuit and he didn´t had the permission to cut the bike off."

[Jiggles]

Understandable. But even if the officer stops a lot of people don't realize they've gotten away and continue to be a threat. I think it's better to have a sirened police car on chase. From a chp guy I've heard that when they are told not to chase it's an advisory and not an order. Unless they receive an order from higher up then it's the CHPs discretion. Now of course this wasn't chp so who knows what the rules are.

I'm all for hitting the bike at lower speeds, I think the officer did a good job with that. He could have been more aggressive though to end the chase.

Why do people run? Because they think they can get away. That mentality needs to end and so IMO I think officers should chase. Not 100% of the time but discretionary.

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Why do people run? Because they think they can get away. That mentality needs to end and so IMO I think officers should chase. Not 100% of the time but discretionary.

Agreed. Until the chase puts bystanders in harms way. Through the middle of a crowded city center? Get the plate, arrest later. Through the back roads of FarmVille, (wow, apple capped that) stay on them until they wreck or run out of gas. Too much happens and continues to happen because of the belief there are no consequences or it's easy to get away with it.

Hitting the bike is risky on the officer's part as the one running is apt to turn right around and sue for some form of intentional harm (not a lawyer so don't know terms). But boxing them in and forcing them against a stationary object? Sure.

[ninjamunky85]

If the dude's driving a 1000 then he should have easily been able to outrun the police, who according to the video are driving a saab, just with acceleration.

Dude was obviously scared, and the cops probably should have stopped the chase, but he got what he deserved.

[dave42]

My goodness that was some crappy riding. Seriously crappy riding. I lean farther than that on a bicycle.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by fishdip

So you run from the cops all bets are off. If you don't want to be killed or hurt don't run.

Think about that for some more time sir. A traffic violation is not worth someone's life.

[silver lining in a dark cloud]
At least he stayed within his limits. lol
[/silver lining in a dark cloud]

[bfpower]

I saw all kinds of noob mistakes. Oh yeah, it's because I've done them.

[choneofakind]

This video was just bad all around. Bad choices by the rider, bad choices by the officers, bad riding, Overall great example of what not to do.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Think about that for some more time sir. A traffic violation is not worth someone's life.

[silver lining in a dark cloud]
At least he stayed within his limits. lol
[/silver lining in a dark cloud]

It went past a traffic violation the moment he ran.

[choneofakind]

[Panda]

1. The video was from the future! 2019!
2. I believe the first rule of a police chase is you actually have to try to run away.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Why do people run? Because they think they can get away. That mentality needs to end and so IMO I think officers should chase. Not 100% of the time but discretionary.

As a person who has ran from the cops a few times I can support that mentality. If I new running from the cops may lead to my death due to them hiting the bike Id have pulled over more times then I have ran.

[choneofakind]

I'm playing devil's advoate for the sake of provoking thought-based discussion, not emotion.

I've never run from the police. I've been pulled over in 2 different cars and on my bike. At no time did I think, "oh, I'll get killed if I run, so I better not" conversely, I never thought, "Oh I can get away with this, I should run". I just thought, "oh damn" and pulled over. Am I in the minority? maybe. Am I in the majority? maybe.

...but where do we draw the line? At what point do we decide that some action is worthy of using deadly force? Is speeding or attempting to flee really worth the life of the one fleeing? What about shop-lifting? Domestic fights? noise complaints? Tax evasion? Littering? Where does that deadly force become too much?

Food for thought.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I'm playing devil's advoate for the sake of provoking thought-based discussion, not emotion.

I've never run from the police. I've been pulled over in 2 different cars and on my bike. At no time did I think, "oh, I'll get killed if I run, so I better not" conversely, I never thought, "Oh I can get away with this, I should run". I just thought, "oh damn" and pulled over. Am I in the minority? maybe. Am I in the majority? maybe.

...but where do we draw the line? At what point do we decide that some action is worthy of using deadly force? Is speeding or attempting to flee really worth the life of the one fleeing? What about shop-lifting? Domestic fights? noise complaints? Tax evasion? Littering? Where does that deadly force become too much?

Food for thought.

The problem with some one fleeing is you have no idea why he is running. When I ran from the cops it was for stupid stuff like no MC no plates. But what if I just got done killing or robing some one. Is it better for the police to use what ever force they need to in order to stop some one or hope they are only running for something stupid and let them go. Innocent ppl don't run. the times you got stopped I am guessing it may have been for something minor like speeding but if you had just committed a crime are you still as motivated to just pull over or try to run?

[choneofakind]

Valid point Fish. But not all people who run are people who committed major crimes. There's plenty of motorcyclists and sports car enthusiasts who would run and risk their lives big time for something silly like a plate that's out of date or a speed violation.

You even said you ran for not having a plate. Is not having a plate worthy of dying? That's all I'm asking you to think about. Forget if you knew about it ahead of time or not. It's a slippery slope to put a blanket statement into law that says if you run, we're able to use deadly force without question.

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I've never run from the police. I've been pulled over in 2 different cars and on my bike. At no time did I think, "oh, I'll get killed if I run, so I better not" conversely, I never thought, "Oh I can get away with this, I should run". I just thought, "oh damn" and pulled over. Am I in the minority? maybe. Am I in the majority? maybe.

Just so my previous answer is clear, I am in this camp. I have no reason to disrespect the law, nor those enforcing it. So, when I have been pulled over, I comply. I don't understand the mentality of running.

My honest answer to the rest of your points would get me in trouble, so that's all I'll say.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Valid point Fish. But not all people who run are people who committed major crimes. There's plenty of motorcyclists and sports car enthusiasts who would run and risk their lives big time for something silly like a plate that's out of date or a speed violation.

You even said you ran for not having a plate. Is not having a plate worthy of dying? That's all I'm asking you to think about. Forget if you knew about it ahead of time or not. It's a slippery slope to put a blanket statement into law that says if you run, we're able to use deadly force without question.

Yes since my life choice to run can lead to some one who had nothing to do with it getting killed.

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

It's a slippery slope to put a blanket statement into law that says if you run, we're able to use deadly force without question.

Question, are you putting all police chases into the deadly force category? Usually the ones that the media likes to show all involve very controlled responses and once the runner is stopped, then a proper arrest is made.

In the original video, I do not recall anything that to me suggested deadly force, the officer stayed back until the bike was going very slow then tried blocking him against the fence. The biker rode through the fence vs stopping. The officer did not cause the wreck at the end which thankfully stopped the rider.

[choneofakind]

I'm considering any intentional contact/ramming between the cruiser and bike to be deadly force. As we know, bikers aren't protected by cages, any contact can kill. We've all seen what road rage can do, I consider intentionally pinning a guy between a cruiser and a guard rail to be just as dangerous.

but we're just talking in circles and I want to hear some other points of view, so I'm done here for a while. I'd rather read than spout. Like I said in a previous post, I'm just playing devil's advocate to induce some thought.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

Question, are you putting all police chases into the deadly force category? Usually the ones that the media likes to show all involve very controlled responses and once the runner is stopped, then a proper arrest is made.

In the original video, I do not recall anything that to me suggested deadly force, the officer stayed back until the bike was going very slow then tried blocking him against the fence. The biker rode through the fence vs stopping. The officer did not cause the wreck at the end which thankfully stopped the rider.

I think it needs to be used like the officer did in this vid. If the rider is going slow like 20mph then yes ram away/block the bike with the car. I cant find the video now of the cop hiting a mc rider head on to stop him and this to me is wrong.

[allanoue]

This video is in an old thread. I hope I can find it be for @Alex does.
IBR gives me hope.

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by fishdip

I think it needs to be used like the officer did in this vid. If the rider is going slow like 20mph then yes ram away/block the bike with the car. I cant find the video now of the cop hiting a mc rider head on to stop him and this to me is wrong.

20's too fast, IMO for a direct hit. But setting up so where the rider has the choice of hitting or stopping, then it's on them.

[NevadaWolf]

WARNING DERAILMENT AHEAD!

Originally Posted by choneofakind

but we're just talking in circles and I want to hear some other points of view, so I'm done here for a while. I'd rather read than spout. Like I said in a previous post, I'm just playing devil's advocate to induce some thought.

Ok, let's try a different point of view (and I understand if you just want to read, I'll ramble)

Disclaimer, the following is not specifically my own personal view point. A LOT of ifs are here that I don't want to go into right now. Also, this has a dangerous chance of bleeding over into something I do care passionately about so I will try to keep it reigned in.

The question is raised, when draw the line of using deadly force? I'll ask instead why limit it?

Once a person reaches the age when society accepts them as a full member (so excluding children), why is society so concerned with preserving their life? It's not like we live where every abled bodied person must contribute to the success or failure of the society as a whole.

Why work so hard to preserve a life that the one living it is so determined to be rid of? To keep this in the spirit of this thread, if someone chooses to run from the law they are only thinking of themselves. If the person who ran had a spouse or children to support, then they should have thought of that before throwing their own safety away. They choose to endanger themselves, let them suffer the consequences.

Is stopping someone speeding or attempting to flee worth the lives of the drivers and pedestrians up ahead?

Is stopping a shoplifter worth the life of the clerk?

Domestic fights? I am ALL for this one. Fights escalate easily and the victim doesn't always get a second chance.

Noise complaints? See below..

Tax evasion? Same...

Littering? Is stopping someone tossing a cigarette out that caused the wildfire which destroyed half a town and cost many lives worth it?

The noise complaint and the tax evasion are difficult as I don't see those crimes endangering the lives of anyone else. I would offer that deadly force can be justified if by its application further lives are saved.

OKAY, BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED THREAD!

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

WARNING DERAILMENT AHEAD!



Ok, let's try a different point of view (and I understand if you just want to read, I'll ramble)

Disclaimer, the following is not specifically my own personal view point. A LOT of ifs are here that I don't want to go into right now. Also, this has a dangerous chance of bleeding over into something I do care passionately about so I will try to keep it reigned in.

The question is raised, when draw the line of using deadly force? I'll ask instead why limit it?

Once a person reaches the age when society accepts them as a full member (so excluding children), why is society so concerned with preserving their life? It's not like we live where every abled bodied person must contribute to the success or failure of the society as a whole.

Why work so hard to preserve a life that the one living it is so determined to be rid of? To keep this in the spirit of this thread, if someone chooses to run from the law they are only thinking of themselves. If the person who ran had a spouse or children to support, then they should have thought of that before throwing their own safety away. They choose to endanger themselves, let them suffer the consequences.

Is stopping someone speeding or attempting to flee worth the lives of the drivers and pedestrians up ahead?

Is stopping a shoplifter worth the life of the clerk?

Domestic fights? I am ALL for this one. Fights escalate easily and the victim doesn't always get a second chance.

Noise complaints? See below..

Tax evasion? Same...

Littering? Is stopping someone tossing a cigarette out that caused the wildfire which destroyed half a town and cost many lives worth it?

The noise complaint and the tax evasion are difficult as I don't see those crimes endangering the lives of anyone else. I would offer that deadly force can be justified if by its application further lives are saved.

OKAY, BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED THREAD!

I also think we need to draw a line on when to use said force. The biggest issue is the fact that the line is bases off the officer choice and nothing else.

[dwright0723]

Originally Posted by Kokosun

At the time that the cops went the wrong way around the roundabout, he could've got away by heading to the right. I'm assuming that's why the driver used an expletive, because he thought that was 'chase over'.

I did find it interesting that, even after the boss said to abandon the chase, the cops continued.

Yeah, I thought he got away there too! I thought he'd turn or go the oppositee way or something...

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Hell no, chase that ****er down.

I really like how what finally got the rider was a turn I could do with no hands on the bars. Dude can't ride for ****

Yeah, that turn didn't seem too bad.. Looked painful though.

[pomartin]

when i watch chase video i always wonder... why run?
police have ur licence plate.. so it is kind of without a point??
please enlight me

[dfox]

^ "you have my plate number, but it wasn't me! I swear, the bike was stolen!"

sending someone to the house to arrest you as you pull in though, no way around that.

[lgk]

depends on the offender, sometimes they just go "the hell with it".
sometimes i think they are having fun.

[pomartin]

Originally Posted by dfox

^ "you have my plate number, but it wasn't me! I swear, the bike was stolen!"

sending someone to the house to arrest you as you pull in though, no way around that.

in this case the owner of the bike must pay the fee+ fee for not reporting that the bike was stolen

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by pomartin

when i watch chase video i always wonder... why run?
police have ur licence plate.. so it is kind of without a point??
please enlight me

I had a old plate on my bike I had taken off at a junk yard that never removed them so at first look the cop will think I have a plate and not just pull me over for that.

[Xtina]

It's always the high speed sweepers that get them in the end.