Batteries in Winter

[Proteus]

I'm confused reading about winter storage.

It seems that everyone recommends battery tenders, but it also seems that the battery stays in the bike with the negative terminal disconnected.

I took my batteries out completely and have them in my house. Why couldn't I just keep them there, charge them up before re-installing, and be on my way?

[csmith12]

Nothing really wrong with doing that as long as you keep the battery charged during the storage. It's letting batteries sit around dead that kills them.

[Redgeneral]

Leaving it in the bike over the winter with a tender is fine if you live in a warmer climate.

I've always removed my battery from the bike, stored it inside on a tender, and have never had a single issue at the beginning of the year.

[Proteus]

So if they're currently all charged up they can just sit?

[flitecontrol]

Battery tenders are designed to stay connected. When the battery needs charging, they charge it. Once it's charged, they shut off. That's how they differ from the old style charger that would continue to charge after the battery was "full". No need to disconnect the negative terminal on the battery unless there is some kind of short in the electrical system that would drain the battery.

Cold weather won't hurt a charged battery. It can only damage the battery when its been discharged and it gets really cold.

Keeping the battery inside and charging before riding is fine as long as the battery doesn't discharge excessively during storage. Excessively discharged batteries, especially older ones, may not be restored by charging. My rule of thumb is to charge stored batteries every month or so.

[Proteus]

I don't have a tender, I do have a car-battery charger. Trying to decide if the tender is worth it.

[Proteus]

Also I have two batteries so I think I would need two tenders, so even the cheapest Tender Jr. that's $50 I'd rather not spend if I don't have to.

[alex.s]

i read somewhere that you aren't supposed to charge chem or agm bats under -20c. random info.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Also I have two batteries so I think I would need two tenders, so even the cheapest Tender Jr. that's $50 I'd rather not spend if I don't have to.

Does your current charger have a 2amp setting? If so, just use that and you don't have to have a tender hooked up all the time. I have 4 bikes and 3 4wheelers and only 2 tenders. I just rotate them once a week, so buying just one isn't really a problem.

[Proteus]

I'll have to check the settings - I know it has a slow trickle, fast trickle, and a 50A quick-start. I don't remember the amp settings for the trickles.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Even though my bikes are garaged, if i dont ride them once a month for a good ride, i will put them on the tender for a day or so. So no need to buy numerous tenders. As long as you charge it monthly for a day or 2 you SHOULD be OK.

[Ninjinsky]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Nothing really wrong with doing that as long as you keep the battery charged during the storage. It's letting batteries sit around dead that kills them.

Absolutely true, without a tender keep it topped up with a trickle charge for a couple of hours each week,
Lead acid batteries self discharge over time, even new they lose at least 5% a month and the flatter they are the faster they degenerate.

[Proteus]

I think that my charger is 2/10/50.

The manual for the Elite says: "Standard charging current 0.4 A, maximum 4A"
Does that mean that 2A is fine?

[InvisiBill]

Get a Schumacher battery tender from TSC for $20. http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/stor...intainer-6-12v Switch it between the batteries every so often to keep them both topped off.

[cadd]

Originally Posted by Proteus

I think that my charger is 2/10/50.

The manual for the Elite says: "Standard charging current 0.4 A, maximum 4A"
Does that mean that 2A is fine?

2 amps sounds right. Just charge it for an hour or two. Then test the battery. Once it gets to 13V, stop charging the battery.

[csmith12]

As a general rule of thumb, no more than 2amps while charging or you take away from battery life. I threw 10amps at my brand new r6 battery while at the track one weekend. It fried it in 2 days. Not to mention, I think that to much amps while the battery is installed in the bike can damage other electrical components. Basically, it's the same reason they say to not jump start a bike off a running car.

[Ninjinsky]

Originally Posted by csmith12

It fried it in 2 days. Not to mention, I think that to much amps while the battery is installed in the bike can damage other electrical components.

True. increasing the charge current also increases the voltage across the battery. The battery itself puts 12-13 volts across the electrics and they are designed to take that but I don't know how much higher it is safe to go for the regulator/ rectifier. 2 amps is optimal for a bike battery.
Also I know that with the car if I take the battery out the engine management forgets its profile and it runs bad for a day or two while it re-maps. Not sure if the new ninjas injection is that complex but worth knowing.

[Worldtraveller]

Originally Posted by Proteus

I don't have a tender, I do have a car-battery charger. Trying to decide if the tender is worth it.

IMO, the tender is worth it.

Look at it this way: The tender is typically a little less than the price of a new battery. If it extends the life of a single battery long enough to keep you from having to replace it once, it's paid for itself.

...and motorcycle batteries tend not to last as long as car batteries, and they need more charging even if you ride a lot (I had an electrical engineer explain it to me once).

I have three motorcycles in the garage. Two have the tender pigtails installed, and the other has the old style clamp on the electrode, since it's easy to access. I rotate the tender between the three bikes every other day. Every battery is at least 5 years old at this point, and I haven't had any issues with them.

[Hero Danny]

New battery is ~$60

battery tender is ~$30,

just saying

[adouglas]

Battery tender jr: $22.95

New battery: Approx. $35


Math rules.

I bought my battery tender in 1987 or thereabouts. Still works fine, looks exactly like the new one. Just buy the thing.

Bonus tip: Do the permanent-install harness and run it into your tail. Get a USB charger that plugs into the special end on the harness (Battery Tender offers one but there are others. Hey presto.. you now have a built-in tap to charge your phone.

Extra bonus tip: Unplug the USB charger widget when you're not using it or you'll drain your battery.

[flitecontrol]

My battery tender, which is not a Battery Tender brand, will charge at one or two amps. I use the one amp rate, which I believe is the better choice of the two rates. Think I paid $20 for it at Target a few years ago.

If you need a new battery, Yuasa sells an AGM battery that fits the Ninja. Great, long lasting batteries at reasonable prices. Amazon usually has the best price. Crappy Chinese batteries may sell for a few dollars less, but they usually don't last half as long as a Yuasa, and often not that long.

[edward2014]

Interesting, it seem like to me battery tender + electric bill always > a new battery.
Where my Maths goes wrong?

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Nothing really wrong with doing that as long as you keep the battery charged during the storage. It's letting batteries sit around dead that kills them.

I've never actually winterized a bike of mine but I'm doing so with my track pregen this winter. Would firing the bike up once every week to every other week and running it for ~10-20min keep the battery from dying or should I just fully winterize the bike and put it on the tender?

[Bigballsofpaint]

If i dont keep mine on a tender (which would be for 1 or 2 days per month) then it is because i will take it for a 20 minute ride every month. Granted both my bikes are 2011 so they are relatively new, but they are OEM batteries and i havent had an issue. The 250 was bought new and the 1000 was bought with 1,000 miles on it.

I could be wrong but i dont think it needs to be weekly thing, monthly has worked for me thus far. They are also stored in a (somewhat) heated garage. it doesnt get below 50 degrees in the basement/garage.

I wouldnt start the bike up and just let it idle/rev. If your not going to ride it around, bring it to temp and get some load on it, then just put it on stands and put the battery on a tender.

[antiant]

Or you could just get a lithium battery and not worry about this stuff and save weight in the process!

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by edward2014

Interesting, it seem like to me battery tender + electric bill always > a new battery.
Where my Maths goes wrong?

A battery tender is a float charger... it draws a tiny amount of current (milliamps) at any given time. It will only charge if the battery is below the threshold voltage, and will then automatically go into a very low-power trickle mode.

When I plug mine in at the end of the season, the red (charging) light goes on for a few seconds while the box is sensing the voltage of the battery -- which is of course already fully charged. Then it flips to green (maintenance) and stays there all winter.

Electricity usage is minimal... pennies.



Still cheaper than buying a new battery.

Plus there's the environmental cost of recycling the old battery. Yes, they do recover the heavy metals but it's still a dirty process.

Far better to maintain what you have than treat it as disposable.

[verboten1]

Originally Posted by edward2014

Interesting, it seem like to me battery tender + electric bill always > a new battery.
Where my Maths goes wrong?

so, you pay ~$25 in the couple of months to charge a battery?
The battery tender is a one time thing, not a consumable, so, if it lasts 5 years, that is $4 a year ($2 a year if you use http://www.harborfreight.com/automat...ger-42292.html which works just fine)

keeping a battery fully charged will cost pennies. keeping an approximately $25 battery ( cheapest i could find in 2 second search) alive for the same 5 years costs $5 a year

so Let's say that you pay another $2 in electricity (extreme case I'm sure) to keep the battery topped up.

That's $9-11 a year for 5 years = $45-55

1 battery a year at $25 for 5 years = $125

[verboten1]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Electricity usage is minimal... pennies.

you beat me! I'm in a plant, and had to go to work, I was looking for usage chart like that

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by verboten1

you beat me! I'm in a plant, and had to go to work, I was looking for usage chart like that

Just like these guys

[verboten1]

LOL more like this....

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Sirref

I've never actually winterized a bike of mine but I'm doing so with my track pregen this winter. Would firing the bike up once every week to every other week and running it for ~10-20min keep the battery from dying or should I just fully winterize the bike and put it on the tender?

It's a track bike, it takes about .5h to winterize and will only cost you about 10 red-bulls tops. Just do it mang! Don't be lazy with any bike you push your luck on.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by verboten1

The battery tender is a one time thing, not a consumable, so, if it lasts 5 years,

I bought a Battery Tender Plus in, um... 1989 or thereabouts.

It won't wear out. Ever.

Buy the right thing once. Take care of it. Don't lose it. You're set FOR LIFE.

Some other stuff I bought a long, LONG time ago that's still just fine:

Archer (Radio Shack) six-outlet cord reel: 1979
Sears Digi-Tork torque wrench: 1984
Sears 1/2" breaker bar: 1983
Sears toolbox: 1980
Harbor Freight floor jack and jack stands: 1992
8 oz (?) bottle of Permatex anti-sieze: 1984, should last the rest of my life

etc.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by edward2014

Interesting, it seem like to me battery tender + electric bill always > a new battery.
Where my Maths goes wrong?

A 9Ah 12V battery is equal to 0.108kWh. At the national average of $0.12/kWh, it costs 1.3 cents to fully charge a Ninja 250 battery (1.5 cents if you use 14V for the calculation). Throw in some inefficiency of the charger, and you're still probably under 2 cents for a full charge. Now factor in that the tender is only replacing the little bit of discharge that naturally happens over time, and it'll probably be even less than $0.02 for several months of sitting on the tender. The comparatively huge battery pack in my Chevy Volt (which can carry a 3,800lb car 40 miles) costs approximately $1.50 to recharge.

Originally Posted by Sirref

I've never actually winterized a bike of mine but I'm doing so with my track pregen this winter. Would firing the bike up once every week to every other week and running it for ~10-20min keep the battery from dying or should I just fully winterize the bike and put it on the tender?

In normal operation, cold starts are one of the worst things an engine faces. If you don't get it up to operating temp, it won't burn off the condensation and you'll have acids accumulating in the oil. That may keep the battery charged, but at the expense of the oil and engine. Also, thyristor-based R/R's tend to need some RPMs to actually start putting out enough to charge the battery. Many bikes will actually lose charge if left idling (the electronics and ignition are drawing more than the R/R is generating). Just spend the $20 on the TSC tender and mount the SAE connector to the battery. Then just plug the bike in whenever it sits, and never worry about battery problems.

[Rifleman]

Perfect and Ideal.

pull the battery from the bike, bring it to a temp controlled area, place on battery TENDER (not charger)...

so I have this shallow plastic dish/pan thing, put the batt in there and on the tender and on the shelf in the laundry room from Dec to April.

Almost as good

leave it on the bike, attach the batt tender, turn the ignition on (do not start the engine) about once a month and then turn it off and see that the tender shifts from "maintain" to "charge" (most tenders have a yellow "charging" light and a green "tending" light. You want to see that it shifts from green to yellow... and then back to green with in an hour.

note, this will mean that your battery will live between 5 - 10 years... not forever.

a fully charged battery will have an acid content that will keep it from freezing down to -60'F... even then, the liquid in the battery is sort of "slushy", not frozen... only with the batt discharges can it freeze and crack.

biggest killer, running a battery to zero or letting it sit to zero.

A battery will lose about 10% of its charge a month sitting still doing nothing.

The CBR ran on the OEM battery for 9 years... finally pooped out, so got a new one. The regulator/rectifier crapped out the next summer and ran the batt down to zero... charged it to full, and with in a month it was leaving me by the side of the road. New battery run to zero died at one year old.

Quick winterization for the bike... 2 oz of sta-bil in the gas tank, fill the tank all the way up, as full as you can get it. put the bike up on stands (if you have them ) or just thin wooden blocks between the wheels and the concrete, battery on the tender, blanket over the top... PUT THE KEY SOMEPLACE YOU WILL REMEMBER, like in the seat latch lock (if you have a seat latch)

[DaBlue1]

Kawasaki recommends using a 1.5 Amp Automatic Charger. The Schumacher Model XM1-5 is a charger and maintainer.

I've had the same battery in my 2009 for almost 6 years and no problems. The battery was charged more frequently whenever the temp dropped and stayed below freezing.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...4&postcount=18
https://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Battery

[edward2014]

Ha, so interesting and learn so much when you guy are discuss so depth about it.
Just got my first commute bike and maybe my city would not snow and never think of idle the bike in winter. Thanks for the input.

[Proteus]

I just ordered this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The battery connector will be nice as well. It's a PiTa getting to the battery on the 250.