Why you should keep your bike in 1st while stopped (graphic)

[JeffM]

http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/to...p?TOPIC_ID=832

You can see the rider shifting his weight to his right foot just prior to impact most likely trying to put the bike in gear.

Please be in gear at intersections and watch your mirrors.

[Live2ride]

The bastard is planning on running a red light right next to a cop and he hits his brake maybe 20 ft or so behind the motorcycle...I believe that's justification for the cop to shoot him. We don't need people like that in the gene pool.

[bob706]

[scotty]

O wow, I didn't know you should keep it in gear at all times. This is good info for me. I hope that guy was and will be okay. I'm glad there happened to be a cop right there at the moment to witnees a horrible driver.

[Live2ride]

what ercks my nerves is that he didn't even have to hit the brakes, he easily could have avoided the motorcycle rider by just swerving around him. If he just turned the wheel to the left a little he could have avoided him...now he has to add murder on his list of charges. Looks like the guy got a truck grill straight to his back, probably killed him imo, if not then paralyzed him.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Live2ride

what ercks my nerves is that he didn't even have to hit the brakes, he easily could have avoided the motorcycle rider by just swerving around him. If he just turned the wheel to the left a little he could have avoided him...now he has to add murder on his list of charges. Looks like the guy got a truck grill straight to his back, probably killed him imo, if not then paralyzed him.

He obviously didn't see the light or the motorcycle because he was rubber-necking the traffic stop.

Oh, and he most certainly did use his brakes almost as soon as he entered the scene (still entirely too late).

[Live2ride]

Originally Posted by CZroe

He obviously didn't see the light or the motorcycle because he was rubber-necking the traffic stop.

Oh, and he most certainly did use his brakes almost as soon as he entered the scene (still entirely too late).

I know he hit his brakes, but what I was implying was if he swerved instead he could have missed the biker. You can see that the he hit the biker on the far right front side of his truck. If he just swerved 2 feet to the left he could have avoided this accident.

[JMcDonald]

I honestly don't know how feasible it would have been to get out of the way, though. I mean, even if you were staring into your mirrors you probably wouldn't genuinely think they were going to hit you until they got too close to do much about it. I mean, yeah you could get going a little bit to potentially lessen the impact, but even then if you are at a busy intersection it would probably be even more dangerous to do a drag-launch into crossing traffic :P .

Now, I do keep it in 1st, at least until cars have stopped behind me on longer lights, but I do really wonder if I'd actually be able to safely move out of the way of a threat coming from behind, you know?

[Cuongism]

At that speed, I don't think being in 1st would've made a difference. His best option would've been to bail. Which also begs the question, do you bail/throttle left or right? I feel like a car's natural reaction should be to swerve right (away from oncoming), but I think I always swerve left.

[scruffy]

I keep the bike in gear until there are cars behind me, sometimes after. I don't think I would have been able to get out of the that trucks path in time. However, I don't stop in the center of the lane. I'm always pretty far to one side or the other depending on traffic, the road, if I'm going to be turning, etc. In situation shown, assuming I was going straight, I would have likely been to the far right, almost on the line. I still can't say that would have saved me in the same situation, but from there I might have a chance of bailing to the right.

Living in south Florida has made me very aware of folks running red lights, it's almost normal, so I try to stay out of their way.

[Blackwidow]

1st gear or not, there is no way the bike would have enough time to pick up speed to avoid the a-hole from tumbling over him like that.

[Nemesis]

I can't tell if the light was red or green from that GIF. Maybe the motorcyclist had the green light and the cager assumed he'd accelerate but didn't which by then it was too late to stop. IDK.

I'm just saying.

[Live2ride]

Imo the thing that most people forget, is that not leaving the bike in first isn't just gonna give you less time to gtfo of the way quickly, but a lot of people will release the brake, and therefore there would be no brake light indicating that they're stopped. If there's no indication of a brake light, then the driver may not have been aware that the bike was stopped if he only glanced up at it from some other distraction...such as the flashing police lights pulling over another car.

[Cuongism]

Originally Posted by Live2ride

Imo the thing that most people forget, is that not leaving the bike in first isn't just gonna give you less time to gtfo of the way quickly, but a lot of people will release the brake, and therefore there would be no brake light indicating that they're stopped. If there's no indication of a brake light, then the driver may not have been aware that the bike was stopped if he only glanced up at it from some other distraction...such as the flashing police lights pulling over another car.

Your rear light will be on regardless plus I would hope someone's feet on the ground is the bigger indicator that you're stopped. Flashing your brake lights is a different story since they notice the difference in luminance.

[onetruevibe]

Originally Posted by JeffM

http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/to...p?TOPIC_ID=832

...his right foot just prior to impact most likely trying to put the bike in gear.

Doesn't look like he was trying to shift to me...looked like he was trying to bail right. Either way, pretty freaking horrible.

[Jinx250]

The truck hit his brakes maybe 10 feet from the guy. And it looks like the rider was standing up, possibly in an effort to jump off the bike but got tagged first. The lesson to learn here is to watch your mirrors like a hawk. Whether he was in gear or not really wouldn't have helped as much as seeing that the truck was not slowing down sooner. When coming to red light intersections like this where there are no other cars, I usually slow down well in advance and move to the edge of the lane, keeping a close watch behind me. I also flash my brake light repeatedly when someone is coming up behind me until I am sure that they are slowing down.

[Powerlogix]

Too bad theres no details on the biker, I'm sure there was major injuries hopefully not death though. Seems like he flew off his bike and the impact started with the motorcycle's rear tire.

[rockNroll]

I watch behind while waiting at a stop. I have had them "snap out of it" and realize they were gonna run me down, slam on the brakes and come to a stop beyond where I was before I saw them and left the intersection.

[Live2ride]

I'd flip sh*t on anyone who did that to me. They wouldn't leave without a reminder...

[KJohnson21]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

I watch behind while waiting at a stop.

Originally Posted by Cuongism

Flashing your brake lights is a different story since they notice the difference in luminance.

Originally Posted by scruffy

I keep the bike in gear until there are cars behind me, sometimes after.

Those are three very good tips to keep in mind when stopped at a signal. Especially if you're the last one in line, or the only one.

1. Watch what's behind you for oncoming traffic.
2. Start flashing your brake lights when you see a car approaching.
3. Keep flashing until you can see that they're slowing/stopping.
4. Move out of the way if they're not slowing down!

Keep in mind that your brake light will come on if you're using either the brake lever -or- the brake pedal. So, it'd be hard to flash your brake lights if you're stopped on a steep hill.

[highpsiguy]

In gear or not....skilled motorcycle rider or not...fast bike or slow- this rider did not have enough time to react.

[demp]

I keep it in first until there's a stopped car behind me, and that's exactly why...

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I can't tell if the light was red or green from that GIF. Maybe the motorcyclist had the green light and the cager assumed he'd accelerate but didn't which by then it was too late to stop. IDK.

I'm just saying.

Looked at it closer and with different contrast and the guy on the bike was at a red light and it looks like the left turn lane has a green. Also, I think the driver of the truck target fixated. No attempt to do anything but hit the brakes and stare at what he/she was going to hit.

[gfloyd2002]

Obviously sucks to be rear ended on a motorcycle. But it isn't really a sufficiently huge risk for us, despite the video below, that should cause too much concern. Apart from the fact that it is really hard to react quickly enough to do anything about it, even if you are in gear and paranoid about your mirrors, it is a pretty small percentage of the risk for us.

According to 2007 NHTSA study of fatal motorcycle accidents: Only 11 percent of fatal motorcycle-car accidents were rear enders. Of those, 68 percent were the motorcycle rear-ending the car. So just 3.5 percent of fatal motorcycle-car accidents are the car rear ending the motorcycle. Obviously that is 3.5% too many, but the bigger concerns are our own fault. Of the motorcycle operators who were killed in two-vehicle motorcycle over half were either speeding, reckless driving, driving under the influence, etc. Overall, only 30% of two-vehicle fatal motorcycle crashes involved car driver error. And that doesn't even consider that about 44% of all motocycle accidents are single vehicle accidents (and 97% of those being rider error, only about 3% are equipment failure - and even some of those can be avoided with T-CLOCKS checks before the ride . . .)

So . . . quick number crunching tells me that only about 20% of all fatal motorcycle crashes are car driver error. And a very small part of that is a driver rear-ending a motorcycle. The best improvements to our safety involve looking in the mirror in the bathroom, not the rear view mirror at a stoplight.

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by highpsiguy

In gear or not....skilled motorcycle rider or not...fast bike or slow- this rider did not have enough time to react.

Wrong. If he had been watching behind he could have left that spot before the moron arrived.

[DaBlue1]

The driver of that truck was driving too fast and not paying attention. It looks like the bike's brakes were on. (it also could have been a reflection). Also most states have a "move over" law (http://www.moveoveramerica.com/). If an officer has a car pulled over you must change lanes if able to do so or slow down as you proceed by. That truck looks like it did neither.

Brake light modulators work very well, especially with a brighter bulb. I've seen it work. Cars see it and back off more quickly and leave me plenty of space. IMO, a #1 safety mod.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5583

[JMcDonald]

Either way, the aggressive launch required to potentially avoid this crash could have put the rider in an even more dangerous situation of getting t-boned by crossing traffic.

I also tend to stay way to one side of the intersection at stoplights, largely so if I get rear-ended I will go to the side of the car ahead, rather than right into its bumper. One time, an old man pulled right up next to me in my lane, and never once saw me. I had to wait until he went with the green light before I could go, or else I'd have been right next to him while in motion.

[ninja3575]

Rear ending someone at a light happens quite frequently when theres a cop pulled over with his lights flashing...Most of the blame goes to the damn motorist, but some falls on that cop. He shoulda had the motorist pull over anywhere else but directly in front of a traffic light.... People rubber neck and take their eyes off the light and whats in front of them and *bam* you end up in the rear seat of the car in front of you... or in this case... biker...

I always keep my bike in gear, having been given the same advice... but lets say the car APPEARS to not be slowing down... Where do you go? Do you gun it forward in a split second decision and end up in the intersection? Cause there is no way for you to have time to turn and try to move laterally other than to hop off your bike and dive for cover.....

[00NissanNinja]

I keep my bike in gear and towards one side of the lane and flash my brakes for a bit. This way if I feel like someone is going to rear end me I can easily move into another lane or move between cars to avoid the collision. If I am the first in a lane at a stop I make sure that I have room to pull over to a side (Turn into the crosswalk if needed). At least if you are on one side of the lane without enough time to react and the driver notices their mistake, the chances of them avoiding you improve.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Obviously sucks to be rear ended on a motorcycle. But it isn't really a sufficiently huge risk for us, despite the video below, that should cause too much concern. Apart from the fact that it is really hard to react quickly enough to do anything about it, even if you are in gear and paranoid about your mirrors, it is a pretty small percentage of the risk for us.

True, getting rear-ended at a stop is a pretty small stat. However, it only has to happen once to anyone to be a big deal. You can react, not in all cases I know, but keeping a lookout in your mirrors, positioning yourself off to one side, and keeping in gear can save you from getting hit. A little luck helps too.

I think the video reminds me of my vulnerablity on the street.

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by JeffM

True, getting rear-ended at a stop is a pretty small stat. However, it only has to happen once to anyone to be a big deal. You can react, not in all cases I know, but keeping a lookout in your mirrors, positioning yourself off to one side, and keeping in gear can save you from getting hit. A little luck helps too.

I think the video reminds me of my vulnerablity on the street.

Yeah, I hear you. Only 3.5% of the accidents, but still better to reduce that 3.5% as much as we can. Good takeaway to that you need to feel vulnerable and do everything you can to be safe.

[coondog]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Obviously sucks to be rear ended on a motorcycle. But it isn't really a sufficiently huge risk for us, despite the video below, that should cause too much concern. Apart from the fact that it is really hard to react quickly enough to do anything about it, even if you are in gear and paranoid about your mirrors, it is a pretty small percentage of the risk for us.

According to 2007 NHTSA study of fatal motorcycle accidents: Only 11 percent of fatal motorcycle-car accidents were rear enders. Of those, 68 percent were the motorcycle rear-ending the car. So just 3.5 percent of fatal motorcycle-car accidents are the car rear ending the motorcycle. Obviously that is 3.5% too many, but the bigger concerns are our own fault. Of the motorcycle operators who were killed in two-vehicle motorcycle over half were either speeding, reckless driving, driving under the influence, etc. Overall, only 30% of two-vehicle fatal motorcycle crashes involved car driver error. And that doesn't even consider that about 44% of all motocycle accidents are single vehicle accidents (and 97% of those being rider error, only about 3% are equipment failure - and even some of those can be avoided with T-CLOCKS checks before the ride . . .)

So . . . quick number crunching tells me that only about 20% of all fatal motorcycle crashes are car driver error. And a very small part of that is a driver rear-ending a motorcycle. The best improvements to our safety involve looking in the mirror in the bathroom, not the rear view mirror at a stoplight.

Watch the video with your eyes and swallow the statistics with your mouth, sorry. watch it again.

[Alex]

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by coondog

Watch the video with your eyes and swallow the statistics with your mouth, sorry. watch it again.

I think coondog needs a nap.

I didn't mean to be insensitive to the poor guy who got rear-ended. Its just that one can't base safety planning or riding strategies on an isolated case, and rear enders are pretty rare. And the ones you can avoid by using ninjette power to speed away are even rarer. Better to focus on the things more likely to get you.