Question on track day crashes

[adouglas]

Yesterday I volunteered to corner work a track day at New Hampshire Motor Speedway. Well worth it... had fun.

About 100 riders were there.

One of the things that surprised me was the number of incidents. I didn't count (silly me) but there must have been at least 10-15 crashes if not more... including one really bad one that happened on my station (the rider's going to be okay, thankfully).

Is that level of carnage typical? Most of these incidents were simple get-offs and the rider was able to get back to the pits.

[Boosted139]

That seems a little high, but I would say 5 incidents is probably about average for most track days I attend.

[sharky nrk]

5 downs and 15 run offs/minor incidents would be my average from CWing experience

[csmith12]

5-7 seems about average, that is high for out my way. Sometimes you get "those days" where the mix of riders lends itself to one or more of the following; a faster pace, a slower pace, more crashes, a party in the paddock or just a great day.

[geeker]

Originally Posted by csmith12

5-7 seems about average, that is high for out my way. Sometimes you get "those days" where the mix of riders lends itself to one or more of the following; a faster pace, a slower pace, more crashes, a party in the paddock or just a great day.

In the three track days I've participated in, I've experienced exactly that. Lol

[cbinker]

more riders = more potential for crashing. but 15 crashes seems to be very high.

[Old Lemon]

from my sunday track day i was the only bike down. (someone may have crashed after me but idk) a couple other riders went off track before i did but were able to keep it up and get back on. My first track day only had one wreck as well

[adouglas]

I should probably have said "incidents." I was a corner worker so aside from the three on my station, all I know is that I was told to throw the flag.

Just seemed like kind of a lot to me.

[alex.s]

we had a day one time in florida with NO CRASHES. it was amazing.

[CC Cowboy]

Loudon has too many cement walls. That's why the AMA stopped racing there.

[Alex]

A local provider always shares the 6% stat (average number of riders who will crash on a particular day). They have data going back years, so it's accurate for at least the tracks they go to and the clientele that they attract; not sure if it's universally applicable across all providers / all tracks.

[cbinker]

I have days where there no crashes, then days where there were 6 crashes before noon. Organization had a riders meeting and told everyone to stop crashing.

[Kscreations08]

Originally Posted by adouglas

I should probably have said "incidents." I was a corner worker so aside from the three on my station

2 questions...

What kind of "incidents" occur to corner workers?

and


What were you charging your clients?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Kscreations08

What kind of "incidents" occur to corner workers?

sun burns

[Yakaru]

ouch, seems high to me -- probably people pushing it. I'm probably spoiled though, my only 'track day' was CSBS and I believe we only had 1 incident (Which was a very minor run-off-track).

[Kscreations08]

Originally Posted by alex.s

sun burns

In a corner worker outfit, I could imagine

[genosr1]

For some the learning curve is an expensive one

[jeffb502]

At the only track day I've been to I was out there for every minute of C (slow/novice/beginner) group and only saw 1 waving yellow flag, which was a rider that had laid his bike down in the dirt just off the track; looked minor. There was 1 very slow rider in particular that would trigger a stationary yellow flag (to warn of a minor hazard ahead) when faster C group riders were approaching, so I did see a good deal of stationary yellow, but only the waving yellow that one time.

The only time I saw the red flag displayed, and the ambulance pull out on track (I had a good view of the parked ambulance most of the day from my pit spot, and I could see the start/finish line flag station in the distance) was the first or second B group session, where a rider did go off and tear his bike up pretty good. The rider did not require immediate hospitalization so the ambulance stayed and we were able to get on the track. I was told by other riders that if a rider has to be transported by ambulance the track is closed until another ambulance arrives, which can sometimes take a while.

So a total of 2 crashes/downs for the day that I'm aware of. There could have been a few more, but definitely nowhere near 10-15 waving yellow incidents. I guess the corner workers had an easy day.

[Worldtraveller]

I haven't corner worked at a track day, but I regularly corner work for the local racing club (WMRRA).

I'd say that incident rate is a bit high based on my experience for track days, not so much for actual racing.

Now that I'm racing, I only do corner working on rainy days (still too much of a wuss to race in the rain), and those days, as one might expect, have a higher than normal 'bike down' calls on the radio.....

[csmith12]

If your gunna include rain days, then yep... they are higher than the average day. I have also learned that a "crash" has a definition depending on the track or org. Some define a crash as a bar touching earth, ie run offs don't count.

For example, last year when I rode Putnam with MCRA. If a bar touched earth for any reason, the session was immediately red flagged. Other orgs at other tracks just do a standing or waving yellow if the rider gives the thumb up to the nearest corner worker. Even if you give a corner worker a thumb up, they will make a judgement call to yellow or red flag the session. If they think you need medical in any way... they will error on the safe side, red flag and call in the services. Even on a good day with little to no crashes, it's a busy day as a corner worker. They deserve a lot of credit for what goes unseen and unheard.

I always give them a wave to show my appreciation.

[adouglas]

To be clear, I was counting the number of times I had to throw the flag. Tony's gives you only a red flag, and you call in anything... runoffs, mechanicals, etc. Control then decides whether to wave the flags.

So I don't actually know what happened with all of those incidents.

[csmith12]

Interesting, you should have had at least a yellow too. Did they say why only a red?

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by adouglas

To be clear, I was counting the number of times I had to throw the flag. Tony's gives you only a red flag, and you call in anything... runoffs, mechanicals, etc. Control then decides whether to wave the flags.

So I don't actually know what happened with all of those incidents.

If you move your hand from in front of your face you might be able to see better.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Interesting, you should have had at least a yellow too. Did they say why only a red?

That surprised me too. They weren't specific as to why.

The procedure was to call in any incident to Control. They would then make a judgement call on whether to red-flag the track, so not every call resulted in a flag. If the flags are thrown, everybody pits (of course) and once the incident was cleared everyone would be released again.

One thing I found interesting was that most of the flags happened very near the end of each session so in effect it just ended things a few minutes early.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

If you move your hand from in front of your face you might be able to see better.

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by adouglas

That surprised me too. They weren't specific as to why.

The procedure was to call in any incident to Control. They would then make a judgement call on whether to red-flag the track, so not every call resulted in a flag. If the flags are thrown, everybody pits (of course) and once the incident was cleared everyone would be released again.

One thing I found interesting was that most of the flags happened very near the end of each session so in effect it just ended things a few minutes early.

The first thing to go, when you are tired, is your concentration.

[Rogue]

See anything that went like this?

We're all good...


Dude, what are you doing?


There he goes...


That's gonna sting...


Whee!!!!




Yellow flag!


I saw the guy later in the pits with his very pregnant wife screaming at him. I'm fairly certain that was his first and last track day.

[Alex]

"If pulling the brake this hard stops this short, I bet if I yank it twice as hard I'll stop twice as fast!"



"Oops."

[cbinker]

That's not how you counter steer.

[CC Cowboy]

Why did he do that?

[jeffb502]

Originally Posted by Rogue

See anything that went like this?

(Pictures Deleted)

Yellow flag!


I saw the guy later in the pits with his very pregnant wife screaming at him. I'm fairly certain that was his first and last track day.

I love the guy standing there waving the flag at him while he's down. I know it's what he's supposed to do, it just looks like he's mocking him a bit lol. The only way it could have been better is if the guy waving the yellow flag was pointing at him with his other hand.

[mgentz]

Originally Posted by Rogue

See anything that went like this?

We're all good...


Dude, what are you doing?


There he goes...


That's gonna sting...


Whee!!!!




Yellow flag!


I saw the guy later in the pits with his very pregnant wife screaming at him. I'm fairly certain that was his first and last track day.

Hey. Control rider Ron. I know that guy.

How long ago were these pictures taken?

[JA-Moo]

Track days, usually toward the start of the season, usually have a lot of new riders, and the older riders have a few cobwebs from not riding a lot over the winter, (dependant on your area) Some tracks are not super clean and that can reduce traction. One big thing, is with new riders, no matter how many times you tell them to "ride your own pace", they get that adrenalin rush, and try to keep up with faster riders, (or faster riders on the same bike) and biff it. Those are the usual reasons for a lot of off road excursion "problems".

[csmith12]

Ditches... even on track, they suck and may flip your bike.



Yes... I am in the grass. :\

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Ditches... even on track, they suck and may flip your bike.



Yes... I am in the grass. :\

That looks EXACTLY like the bad crash I saw (including the inverted bike) but from a different direction.

[mgentz]

go Putnam! looks real bad, hope your ok.

[sharky nrk]

ditches do suck at the track ... ALOT ... lol

CW Sat, Rode Sun - I can say I had about 12 off/ons I called in with a standing yellow, there were prob 6 downs bar to earth with a waving yellow (none at my station) and 2 reds with session end (none at my station).

[csmith12]

That is not me, it's my co-pilot Kevin and I am following him and ran off in the grass to not even come close to running him over. We have done about 40 or so super fun track days together. He got up and walked away from that crash with a sore shoulder and ankle. Lil bit of ice and pain killers and he could have rode the next day.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by mgentz

Hey. Control rider Ron. I know that guy.

How long ago were these pictures taken?

Those were taken at Road America on July 1st 2010. It was a NESBA track day.

[mgentz]

Originally Posted by Rogue

Those were taken at Road America on July 1st 2010. It was a NESBA track day.

Cool. Hix is a good guy. Pretty darn fast too.