July 14th, 2013, 03:13 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Help! Won't run.
Having problems with my bike...
2009 with 10,000 miles. I Recently just cleaned the carbs out completely and checked the diaphragms to make sure they weren't broken anywhere. I cleaned out the air box to make sure nothing was blocking the way, i checked the fuel filter and no obstructions. My spark plugs aren't that old, they are very black at the bottom. I have AreaP exhaust, 2 washers on needles, stock size jet. When I start up the bike it seems fine and will rev fine the first time I rev it. After that at about 4k rpm the engine bogs down and wants to die, giving it more gas only makes it give out faster. Any help? during the video i am constantly applying more throttle |
|
July 14th, 2013, 03:20 PM | #2 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '13
|
was with the choke or no choke?
with the things you've done recently there's lots of chance to miss route a vacuum hose on not connect it at all. could be a vacuum leak, water from the tank, air bubble in the fuel system that needs some open throttle to prime the system. |
|
July 14th, 2013, 03:25 PM | #3 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Quote:
100% certain everything is in place, I been trying things over and over for the past 3 days. Water in the bowls gave me there symptoms earlier in the month and when i drained the bowls it was fixed. I drained the gas tank and bowls previously and did not solve it this time. |
|
|
July 14th, 2013, 03:28 PM | #4 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
|
Did you remove and clean the main jets? Sounds like as soon as it's off the idle circuit it runs out of fuel to me.
Did you change anything when you cleaned the carbs? Float level, needle height, air cleaner, etc? |
|
July 14th, 2013, 03:35 PM | #5 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Quote:
I did not change any of the jetting, and the main as well as the pilot jets were cleaned. |
|
|
July 14th, 2013, 06:24 PM | #6 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
What does it do with the choke on? Did you let it warm up at all before turning the throttle? Have you tried to ride it with the choke on then turn it off after about a mile or so?
|
|
July 14th, 2013, 06:27 PM | #7 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Quote:
without the choke I can not even get up to speed to get anywhere. One of the reasons I'm so stressed because i can't even take it anyway like a buddies house with proper tools... I will report back tomorrow morning. |
|
|
July 15th, 2013, 06:40 AM | #8 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
|
As far as cleaning the jets, sometimes you can see light through them, but they aren't completely open. Just spraying cleaner through them won't do it. I take one strand of copper wire from stranded home electrical wire (12ga, 14ga, etc) and run it through the jet while spraying cleaner and spinning the jet around the wire. The jet holder also has very small holes cross-drilled through it that can plug-up. The small brass wire fits through those also.
|
|
July 15th, 2013, 10:44 AM | #9 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Let it warm up for about 20 minutes and hit the choke. The choke allowed the engine to idle at about 4-5k rpm but as soon as i gave it some gas via the throttle, the same result as no choke. I'm unable to ride it anywhere.
|
|
July 15th, 2013, 10:46 AM | #10 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Quote:
|
|
|
July 15th, 2013, 11:16 AM | #11 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
|
I'm thinking something involving the diaphragms.
|
|
July 15th, 2013, 11:35 AM | #12 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
I extensively checked the diaphragms to make sure there is no slit or any type of crack in them. When in place and manually moved they appear to have suction to them.
I am getting new spark plugs to get rid of a cheap fix option. The only thing i can think of is maybe there is a leak or break in the air hoses somewhere not allowing enough of a vacuum to pull up the needles. |
|
July 15th, 2013, 11:51 AM | #13 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Looking at the service manual this is the possible fixes to problems.
Keep in mind the bike was working properly and suddenly stopped after sitting a few days. Running at Low Speed: Spark weak: Stick coil trouble Stick coil shorted or not in good contact -possible, uncertain what this is. ECU trouble - unsure what this is Crankshaft sensor trouble - unsure Fuel/air mixture incorrect: Bypass screw maladjusted- unsurw Air bleed pipe bleed holes clogged - unsure Air cleaner duct loose - unsure Compression low: Cylinder head not sufficiently tightened down- unsure No valve clearance unsure Cylinder, piston worn - unsure Other: Throttle body assy not synchronizing Engine oil viscosity too high Drive train trouble Brake dragging Clutch slipping Engine overheating Air suction valve trouble Air switching valve trouble Poor Running or No Power at High Speed: Firing incorrect: Spark plug incorrect Fuel/air mixture incorrect: Air cleaner duct loose Water or foreign matter in fuel - Water caused similar problems in past but couldnt be the case now after extensive draining. Could water int he engine cause these problems? Compression low: Cylinder head not sufficiently tightened down No valve clearance Cylinder, piston worn Piston ring bad (worn, weak, broken, or sticking) Piston ring/groove clearance excessive Cylinder head gasket damaged Cylinder head warped Valve spring broken or weak Valve not seating properly (valve bent, worn, or carbon accumulation on the seating surface) - unsure Knocking: Fuel poor quality or incorrect Spark plug incorrect ECU trouble Miscellaneous: Brake dragging Clutch slipping Engine overheating Engine oil level too high Engine oil viscosity too high Drive train trouble Camshaft cam worn Air suction valve trouble Air switching valve trouble Catalytic converter melt down due to muffler overheating (KLEEN) |
|
July 16th, 2013, 10:39 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Ok so if anyone is still looking at this. I did a little test where i took off the caps of the carbs and plugged up the diaphragms with my fingers and started the bike. When i gave it some gas and help down the diaphragms i had the same result I'm having with the bike all put together. Which leads me to believe the diaphragms are not opening. does anyone know more of how the carburetors work that could direct me to why the diaphragms are not opening?
|
|
July 16th, 2013, 11:17 AM | #15 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
|
Here's a link to some CV info and theory - http://www.motorcycleproject.com/mot...bs_work_v3.swf
I'm pretty sure that's where your problems are. |
|
July 16th, 2013, 12:03 PM | #16 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Quote:
A little confused as to why my slides are not rising? Is it because there is a clog somewhere not letting air into the space under the diaphragm? Or is there a problem with creating a low pressure above the diaphragm. |
|
|
July 16th, 2013, 12:54 PM | #17 | |
Motorcycle bon vivant...
Name: Rassie
Location: Cary, NC
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 300 Ninja, 250R Ninja, SV650S, CB350, GT750, Aprilia RS250, Triumph Street Triple R Posts: 101
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
NESBA 13, 300 Ninja, 250r Ninja, 06 SV650, Ninja ex250, CB350, CL90 ,GT750, Aprilia RS250, Triumph Street Triple R www.mybikeproject.com |
|
|
July 16th, 2013, 12:56 PM | #18 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
|
Not sure about that. I'd blow out the passages and look at everything closely. Is it possible the diaphragms or any related parts may have been switched side-to-side when you removed them? That's if they are not exactly the same - don't know - just tossing out ideas...
|
|
July 16th, 2013, 05:08 PM | #19 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Quote:
|
|
|
July 17th, 2013, 06:04 AM | #20 | |
Motorcycle bon vivant...
Name: Rassie
Location: Cary, NC
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 300 Ninja, 250R Ninja, SV650S, CB350, GT750, Aprilia RS250, Triumph Street Triple R Posts: 101
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
NESBA 13, 300 Ninja, 250r Ninja, 06 SV650, Ninja ex250, CB350, CL90 ,GT750, Aprilia RS250, Triumph Street Triple R www.mybikeproject.com |
|
|
July 17th, 2013, 11:25 AM | #21 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
The jet kit instructions say the washers go above the e-clip. But i put the stock needles back and same problems.
|
|
July 17th, 2013, 11:52 AM | #22 | |
Motorcycle bon vivant...
Name: Rassie
Location: Cary, NC
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 300 Ninja, 250R Ninja, SV650S, CB350, GT750, Aprilia RS250, Triumph Street Triple R Posts: 101
|
Quote:
Also once the slides are installed you can move them up with your finger, if they make sucking sounds then that is probably not the issue. Also if you could post pictures of what you are doing we (everyone here) may be able to provide more input.
__________________________________________________
NESBA 13, 300 Ninja, 250r Ninja, 06 SV650, Ninja ex250, CB350, CL90 ,GT750, Aprilia RS250, Triumph Street Triple R www.mybikeproject.com |
|
|
July 17th, 2013, 11:54 AM | #23 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
Open gas tank lid and try again
Bypass petcock and try again Check snorkle pathways
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
|
July 17th, 2013, 02:13 PM | #24 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Quote:
It almost seems like the problem happens when the gas tank is on the bike? This wouldn't make sense because the petcock seems to work fine manually when i operate it and would flooded float bowls even cause this problem? |
|
|
July 17th, 2013, 02:13 PM | #25 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Quote:
Snorkel is clear and i am running right now without the air box just to test out this problem. There were no obstructions inside the air box. |
|
|
July 17th, 2013, 02:16 PM | #26 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Quote:
|
|
|
July 17th, 2013, 02:35 PM | #27 |
Motorcycle bon vivant...
Name: Rassie
Location: Cary, NC
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 300 Ninja, 250R Ninja, SV650S, CB350, GT750, Aprilia RS250, Triumph Street Triple R Posts: 101
|
Have you checked the exhaust for any blockage?
__________________________________________________
NESBA 13, 300 Ninja, 250r Ninja, 06 SV650, Ninja ex250, CB350, CL90 ,GT750, Aprilia RS250, Triumph Street Triple R www.mybikeproject.com |
|
July 17th, 2013, 02:38 PM | #28 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Yes i took off the exhaust pipes and tapped them and sounded hollow throughout, I'm about to put back on the stock pipes making everything stock again in case i have to take it into the shop.
|
|
July 18th, 2013, 08:50 AM | #29 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Got a little bit of an update on how things are going.
First of all the bike is back to complete stock (wow the exhaust sounds so different). It seems like if the bike sits for upwards of 20 of so minutes and is turned on it starts right up and i can ride it fine for about 30 seconds. After that 30 seconds it becomes very hard to get off the idle circuit and i have to give it a ton of has to cause it to rev very high to keep the bike moving. After about 30 more seconds it is impossible to move past 3k RPM and the bike will stall if i try to give it any gas, and the next time i turn it on it will be a rough idle or will not start at all until i wait again. |
|
July 18th, 2013, 09:05 AM | #30 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
|
Check the vacuum hose to the petcock, the gas cap, and the float bowl vent for proper venting.
What it's doing sounds like it's being starved of fuel after a certain point, and a vacuum may be building-up in the float bowls as the fuel is being used. |
|
July 18th, 2013, 09:13 AM | #31 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Quote:
Where is the float bowl vent? |
|
|
July 18th, 2013, 09:16 AM | #32 |
Motorcycle bon vivant...
Name: Rassie
Location: Cary, NC
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 300 Ninja, 250R Ninja, SV650S, CB350, GT750, Aprilia RS250, Triumph Street Triple R Posts: 101
|
Honestly it sounds like fuel supply to me. If it sits then the float bowls get full due to some gas coming through. Then after 30 seconds the supply cannot keep up. Other than that I am stumped for sure.
__________________________________________________
NESBA 13, 300 Ninja, 250r Ninja, 06 SV650, Ninja ex250, CB350, CL90 ,GT750, Aprilia RS250, Triumph Street Triple R www.mybikeproject.com |
|
July 18th, 2013, 10:13 AM | #33 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
|
Quote:
Look at post #6 in this thread - http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=141721. Check all hoses running to and from the carb. |
|
|
July 18th, 2013, 11:02 AM | #34 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
Quote:
I have taken the carbs on and off about 8 times this week each time cleaning and double checking everything. The only thing I am not sure about is the float height. But would that cause something as drastic as this? How do I adjust it. |
|
|
July 18th, 2013, 11:14 AM | #35 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Daniel "God"
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 326
|
here another video of the way the engine is acting.
Im constantly slowly adding more throttle when the engine starts to rev |
|
August 9th, 2013, 10:06 AM | #36 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Todd
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, 1990 Fatboy, 1999 RM125, 1983 Shuttle Posts: 14
|
Curious if it is fixed? Check the little fuel filter ?
|
|
August 9th, 2013, 01:00 PM | #37 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
|
I would have liked the video to go on a bit longer so we could hear exactly what it sounds like when it quits.
From what i heard at the end it sounded like it was running out of fuel to me. I think there's something not right in the carbs, and at this point I would take them to someone that knows how to completely disassemble, clean, and adjust them. |
|
August 9th, 2013, 02:57 PM | #38 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Kevin
Location: Madison
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465
|
I think you have a vacuum leak or some sort or a hose is routed incorrectly. I know you said its right and your 100% certain.....I don't think I've ever been 100% certain of anything in my life. I think I hear the sound of a vacuum leak. I forgot to connect a hose when my bike was apart last time and it acted similar
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Won't run over 1k rpm | bowerbird100 | 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 21 | June 27th, 2014 07:00 PM |
Won't run | Bblock | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 9 | August 6th, 2013 12:17 PM |
Help! Won't run. | xaple | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 32 | July 16th, 2013 09:38 PM |
Won't "run right", won't idle, choke only, etc?? - SOLUTION HERE | Jiggyfly | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 5 | May 16th, 2012 09:50 AM |
250 Won't Run for @$%T | badblown572 | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 12 | May 9th, 2012 03:38 PM |
|
|