New Tires: Rosso II or Michelin Pilot Street

[kdogg2077]

I'm thinking of upgrading tires in the next month or so. Does anyone have experience with these tires? The Michelin Pilot Street are new but I thought a few people might have tried them.

The Rosso II's are really popular already.

I'm not an aggressive rider but I figure the stickier the tire the better.

I was thinking of trying a 140 rear, though I know feelings on those are mixed.

[Sirref]

You really don't need the extra grip if you aren't going to use it. Longevity and rain performance are more important for street riding, that said I'm in the same dillema myself with the bridgestone bt-45s as another solid tire to look at, as it lasts far longer and has more than enough grip for street riding (can also be ridden on track at a respectable pace)

[xaple]

bridgestone bt-45s only option based on your riding description. anything else would be money down the drain.

[kdogg2077]

The difference in price isn't that much. We are talking like 25 dollars per tire.

Why not pay for a little more grip just in case?



That said, the BT45 have great reviews and I thought about them too.

[Sirref]

the monetary difference comes in the life expectancy difference in the tires. The BT-45 will on average last twice as long as the pirellis (don't know how michelin falls into this)

[tfkrocks]

You'll be paying twice as much for tires if you use the DRIIs simply because they wear so quickly. I expect the Michelin tires to fall somewhere in between.

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by Sirref

the monetary difference comes in the life expectancy difference in the tires. The BT-45 will on average last twice as long as the pirellis (don't know how michelin falls into this)

Originally Posted by tfkrocks

You'll be paying twice as much for tires if you use the DRIIs simply because they wear so quickly. I expect the Michelin tires to fall somewhere in between.

Hmm maybe I'll give the Michelins a try then.

[kdogg2077]

The Rosso II's are supposed to get 8,000 front and 5,000 rear, according to Pirelli. Not terrible but not great either.

[Sirref]

In the end it's your money but I don't really think you'll wind up needing the extra grip. @ally99 was just fine riding at a track pace on BT-45s which are what I'm likely going to be getting for myself.

[tfkrocks]

Not enough people have reported on the Michelins so you should do everyone a favor by running through a set and letting us know about them

[Sirref]

^ hadn't thought of it that way, go for it. They're rumored to have crazy good wet grip.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Sirref

In the end it's your money but I don't really think you'll wind up needing the extra grip. @ally99 was just fine riding at a track pace on BT-45s which are what I'm likely going to be getting for myself.

Keep in mind, I rode at a pretty fast novice pace all weekend. I've also ridden a slow intermediate pace on 45s, but if you're super fast, you may want to look into 003s or something. Those are stickier, but they wear out a LOT sooner in the middle if you ride on the street.

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by Sirref

^ hadn't thought of it that way, go for it. They're rumored to have crazy good wet grip.

Originally Posted by tfkrocks

Not enough people have reported on the Michelins so you should do everyone a favor by running through a set and letting us know about them

Maybe I'll do just that

Any thoughts about trying a 140 rear? Some people seem to love them some seem to think they have no need on the 250. I'm just thinking more rubber on the road might increase traction. Even if it does make them turn a smidge slower.

[mania]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

The Rosso II's are supposed to get 8,000 front and 5,000 rear, according to Pirelli. Not terrible but not great either.

I found that to be quite accurate
I just put on a 2nd Rosso II rear after the first gave me roughly
7800km/4846 miles

Went with them again because I think they are the best for me/my riding
I run a 140 as I have a 2013 250 ( Thailand SE edition )

[csmith12]

Every tried Michelins before? I think every rider should try as many tires as they can, because once you find the one that is for you, it's almost like the light shines down on you and your bike from the heavens above.

Here is the skinny on the Michelin "street" tires... They are good until about mid pack I group pace. Then your gunna start getting mild sliding on corner apex & exit unless your bp is better than average. I have found them to be better than the others on a wet track. As a street tire, they are outstanding in the dry & wet but are somewhat null feeling on slab when filled to top psi for max tire wear. I personally view the null fulling as a good thing, other riders may not see it my way and that is ok. Say you wanna test the speed limits on some twisty roads. The michelins should handle just about anything you throw at them as long as the speeds are sane for the street and your air pressures are not over the top high. Unlike the Rosso's that like as much air in them as the rider can bare, the Michelins like to be run a bit on the lower side to get maximum grip. I am not sure what pressure Ally was running, but I followed her around the track some odd laps between 2 sessions and between her buttox getting off the seat and the tires holding their line, I thought.... nothing to worry about here.

Also, My friend and I run Michelins on bikes that pull double duty as street and track. So far so good for 40+ track days and many, many street miles. I recently ran the q3's to see what all the fuss was about but that is another thread.

Couple more things, Dunrocks seem to love to pick up nails and screws. YMMV lol And the rosso's pretty much suck in the rain at anything above a commute pace.

If you get the Michelins, please write up a review.

[subxero]

I would think that at a non aggressive pace you have next to nothing to gain from a stickier tire and or slightly larger tire. The things at that pace that are going to cause you to loose traction are most likely road hazards and or operator error and for those that fraction of additional grip will not matter anyway.

get a decent run of the mill all around tire with good reviews for a good price and with normal road riding you will most likely not even flirt with their performance limitations (less things mentioned above)

Did your IRC's get banged up? they only have a few k on them?
I have 8500 on my stock IRC's have never had a problem with them even at an aggressive pace, I felt the front slip a little once but it was dirty road and a crested turn.

Take the money you save on tires and put it towards something else. You should get in on the Braided SS brake line group buy going on in the market place. $45 well spent

[mania]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

Any thoughts about trying a 140 rear? Some people seem to love them some seem to think they have no need on the 250. I'm just thinking more rubber on the road might increase traction. Even if it does make them turn a smidge slower.

I run a 140 as that was stock on the 2013 250
But many here go bigger ( for looks )

For performance
My opinion is I look at Moto3 GP
The 250's there run front/rear: Dunlop 95/70-17 / 115/70-17
on the KTM moto3 production racers. They also hit max speeds of 220-240kph at times

If anyone was interested in traction it would be them.
Granted these are race tires but still. They turn & accelerate have less rotational mass/weight. I always cringe when I see 250's here go for a bigger rim & stick a crazy large tire in there.

Not saying a 140 is crazy large. But if this bike I have came stock with smaller I would run that no problem.

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by subxero

I would think that at a non aggressive pace you have next to nothing to gain from a stickier tire and or slightly larger tire. The things at that pace that are going to cause you to loose traction are most likely road hazards and or operator error and for those that fraction of additional grip will not matter anyway.

get a decent run of the mill all around tire with good reviews for a good price and with normal road riding you will most likely not even flirt with their performance limitations (less things mentioned above)

Did your IRC's get banged up? they only have a few k on them?
I have 8500 on my stock IRC's have never had a problem with them even at an aggressive pace, I felt the front slip a little once but it was dirty road and a crested turn.

Take the money you save on tires and put it towards something else. You should get in on the Braided SS brake line group buy going on in the market place. $45 well spent

Between the lowside and the tires being out in the worst winter ever I thought it might not hurt to replace them early. I'd like something a little better for wet conditions too. Most people don't think the stock tires handle rain well and I didn't ride in wet conditions last year so that will be new for me this year.

I thought about Kenda's as they have OK reviews but I think I'll spend the extra coin for something better. The Michelins or BT45's.

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by mania

I run a 140 as that was stock on the 2013 250
But many here go bigger ( for looks )

For performance
My opinion is I look at Moto3 GP
The 250's there run front/rear: Dunlop 95/70-17 / 115/70-17
on the KTM moto3 production racers. They also hit max speeds of 220-240kph at times

If anyone was interested in traction it would be them.
Granted these are race tires but still. They turn & accelerate have less rotational mass/weight. I always cringe when I see 250's here go for a bigger rim & stick a crazy large tire in there.

Not saying a 140 is crazy large. But if this bike I have came stock with smaller I would run that no problem.

That's a good point. Those guys would be running 140's if they needed them.

Wonder why Kawa switch to 140's for the Thailand 250?

[mania]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

That's a good point. Those guys would be running 140's if they needed them.

Wonder why Kawa switch to 140's for the Thailand 250?

I think it was strictly zx type aesthetics
Also here we have both ( 250 & 300 ) & the 2013 250 is for all intents & purpose the 300
with less stroke, no slipper clutch & 28mm instead of 32mm throttle bodies

By July 2013 they also released the 300 here
So the 2013 250 really was a special edition so to speak

[GHill762]

FWIW I got the drII's last summer, I probably won't be getting them again..

[Bob2010]

Id give a detailed review on the Michelin tires but so far all I can say is that they stack nicely in corner of my garage
Still snowing here ....

[tfkrocks]

I would run the stock size tires rather than larger ones simply to save a few bucks lol.

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

That's a good point. Those guys would be running 140's if they needed them.

Wonder why Kawa switch to 140's for the Thailand 250?

The recent Thai 250 is the exact same bike as what most people know as the 300 other than a slightly less powerful engine. The stock rear tire on the 300s are 140.

[kdogg2077]

I just ordered a Michelin Pilot Street Radial front tire to replace my stock IRC tire.

Should I order a Michelin rear to pair with the front when I have the cash?

Or would I be OK running the Michelin up front with the IRC in the rear? I've heard some people say that this could negatively effect the handling of the bike. Others seem to like leaving the IRC in the rear and replacing the front for better stopping power.

These tires only have 3200 miles on them so they aren't worn much.

Could I get by getting the rear replaced in a 2-3000 miles?

[Skullz]

I just ordered the rear tire wednesday and got it on thursday from revzilla and finally got around to installing it last night, what a night and day difference it was going from the stock to the pilot street radial. I don't plan on racing so i thought i would give the tire a try as they were new to the market and thought why not, well with the low number of miles on it so far i like it alot, not quite used to the bike feeling tippy, but certainly enjoy how much easier it makes cornering and lane switching. The bike feels more planted in the rear without feeling like it's skittish wanting to wander about back there. I will certainly be getting the front here in a week or so to replace the still in good shape stocker, but if it is anywhere near as good as the rear i'm hooked.
So far i like the new Michelin Pilot Street tire, guess we'll have to see how long they last now.

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by Skullz

I just ordered the rear tire wednesday and got it on thursday from revzilla and finally got around to installing it last night, what a night and day difference it was going from the stock to the pilot street radial. I don't plan on racing so i thought i would give the tire a try as they were new to the market and thought why not, well with the low number of miles on it so far i like it alot, not quite used to the bike feeling tippy, but certainly enjoy how much easier it makes cornering and lane switching. The bike feels more planted in the rear without feeling like it's skittish wanting to wander about back there. I will certainly be getting the front here in a week or so to replace the still in good shape stocker, but if it is anywhere near as good as the rear i'm hooked.
So far i like the new Michelin Pilot Street tire, guess we'll have to see how long they last now.

Glad to hear you like the tire. I figured I would give the new kid on the block a try too.

What do you mean by "feeling tippy"?

So are you running IRC front and Michelin rear now?

[Bob2010]

I personally wouldn't recommend using 2 different tires , especially bias/radial mix

[Skullz]

Currently have the IRC front and Michelin rear, and what i mean by tippy is that the bike leans so easily as compared to the stock IRC, kinda like you feel as if it could tip over it rolls so easy. I guess having a squared off, worn out POS for a tire would give you all kinds of weird feedback.

[KrazyWalle]

I have the Pirelli Sport Demons, 4,300mi. and 5 months later the rear is down to the wear indicator. I was really expecting more miles but they handled well in the rain and have good dry grip. I was considering the new street radials but I opted for more grip with the DR2s. They should be arriving any day now..

Here's a pic of my current tire from today's 200mi ride.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

I just ordered a Michelin Pilot Street Radial front tire to replace my stock IRC tire.

Should I order a Michelin rear to pair with the front when I have the cash?

Or would I be OK running the Michelin up front with the IRC in the rear? I've heard some people say that this could negatively effect the handling of the bike. Others seem to like leaving the IRC in the rear and replacing the front for better stopping power.

These tires only have 3200 miles on them so they aren't worn much.

Could I get by getting the rear replaced in a 2-3000 miles?

Switch both at the same time, From there swap out the rears with the same tire or switch to a different tire set. Running different front/rear tires can be sketchy and a bias ply/radial combo is definitely a sketchy combo since the front should be higher than the rear as a result of it. Replace both or save both and wear the IRCs down more don't do it halfway.

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by Sirref

Switch both at the same time, From there swap out the rears with the same tire or switch to a different tire set. Running different front/rear tires can be sketchy and a bias ply/radial combo is definitely a sketchy combo since the front should be higher than the rear as a result of it. Replace both or save both and wear the IRCs down more don't do it halfway.

Yeah you're right, two different tires is a bad idea. I was just being cheap. I'll probably order the other tire next payday.

[tfkrocks]

Lol you should talk to @rojoracing53 about mixing tire types.

I'm running a DRII front and IRC rear together. Hasn't bothered me.

[Sirref]

^ DRII tire is a bias ply tire

you can do bias ply/bias ply or radial/radial without issue in most cases. Mixing them causes issues though which is what he was trying to do. Rojo should know the best combinations though.

[tfkrocks]

Originally Posted by Sirref

^ DRII tire is a bias ply tire

you can do bias ply/bias ply or radial/radial without issue in most cases. Mixing them causes issues though which is what he was trying to do. Rojo should know the best combinations though.

Nope it's radial. 110/70R-17. The R means radial.

Oh yeah, @CycleCam303 ran a DRII front and IRC rear at a track day haha.

[NevadaWolf]

As a killer of several sets of Rosso II's, I like them for general riding with some mountain twisties and a track day or two thrown in. I was able to get about 6k out of the rear and 12k out of the front. Replaced the rear four times and the front twice anyway.

Not so good for long hauls as the center gets eaten rather quickly. The death of the last rear came about when I noticed a small bit of wear one morning and just over 200 miles later the thread was showing on the entire circumference of the tire.

I am curious if the Pilot Streets hold up as well as I have heard the Pilot Roads do.

[Aggrotech]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

Hmm maybe I'll give the Michelins a try then.

you should :P.

Theres a thread dedicated to those new Michelin pilot tires somewhere around here. Someone also said they were getting good reviews over in europe. Id give em a try as i need new tires but im low on $$.

[Sirref]

I should've done a more extensive search for that.

"The reason they say not to mix radial and bias-ply tires is because a BP tire grows in circumference at speed due to centrifugal force. Radials don't do this due to their construction. A bp rear and a radial front can reduce rake at speed , due to the rear tire growing , and cause instability. When Dunlop came out with the original radial bike tire they only made rears. There were also instances of BP rear slicks at high speed growing enough to hit the swingarm and lock the wheel."-http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=10

[tfkrocks]

Conventional wisdom says that, but overall it just reacts differently. Different doesn't necessarily mean bad.

[Sirref]

Fair enough, different while assuming it'll be the same can have some serious consequences. That said I wouldn't mix tire types like that.

[rojoracing53]

ninjette's don't go fast enough for tire growth

Run a good radial front tire on the front and whatever the hell you want on the rear, the rears going to follow what the front does regardless. When picking out your front tire I recommend going with the taller profile option available, it'll make the bike more stable in the corners, as well as fix the error in most OEM speedos.

I ran the **** 120-60 front tire off of jiggles N1K for about 2500 on the rear of my bike with no issue other then it felt low in the rear coming off a 150-70 but no handling or grip issues. Just remember humans are susceptible to placebo so if you try something new expecting a certain result then you may just trick yourself into noticing something that was already there before or something that doesn't even exist.

I've currently got about 3000 miles left in my pilot one racing front and IRC rear. I'll be trying the new Dunlop race front since its like $50 cheaper and another IRC rear if I can find one cheap.

If anyone in NorCal has an OEM rear tire off the 300 they don't want let me know I'm in the market. If you have a 300 with low miles I may even change your tires for free to something sportier if I can keep the old rear tire.