killed battery now won't start - shorted something.

[pezlow010]

ok so i got up for work and it was really cold outside with frost on everything and well i had to be to work in an hour so i wanted to warm up the motor but the bike(98' ex250) wouldnt fire, it tried to start but it was too cold i guess well i killed the battery trying to start the bike and now with a fully charged battery it will not even crank, all i get is a single click sound from the fuse/junction box when i hit the start button.

ALL lights work, no fuses blown. i know i shorted something but i dont know much about electrical stuff just mechanical. and i dont have a manuel, i tried finding a pdf. file online for free.

thanks for the help guys

[cbdallas]

Not necessarily a short. Sounds like a sticky starter relay (if you're sure your battery took a charge). How long, and how did you charge it?

[pezlow010]

i charged it over night so not really sure how long it took. i used multimeter and tested the battery and it tested 12.5v~

[cbdallas]

The click sound you're hearing is the starter relay attempting to work, but it may be stuck. I had this issue occasionally on my old Yamaha. I could reach down and strike it with a screwdriver handle while holding down the start button, and it would kick on. That got to be a pain, so I eventually replaced it.

[pezlow010]

is that the thing with the 30A fuse on it?

[pezlow010]

ok the clicking is coming from a relay inside the fuse box. i took it a part to make sure. i think the fuse box itself is the problem but im not sure because i dont know how to check the connections.

[Alex]

Are you 100% sure the main fuse isn't blown?

[pezlow010]

If its the green 30A fuse then yes if its not that one or any in the fuse box then I dont know where it is or if it blown.

[Jiggles]

Can you start the bike by push starting it?

[pezlow010]

Havent tried that. I dont know how to really

[Jiggles]

Turn the choke on, get the bike into 3rd gear, roll it down the driveway and once you have enough speed let go of the clutch. This will force the engine to turn over and start up. Once its going pull the clutch in and put it in neutral.

If the bike starts while doing this then something is wrong with your battery/starter. If the bike will not start then something is wrong with fuses/wiring.

I don't know how new you are to riding but don't do this unless you feel 100% confident that you can handle it and won't drop the bike by accident. You may want to have a friend near by just in case.

[pezlow010]

Ok so I got the bike to start going down hill and now its idling in natural just fine. Going to wait and see if the bike will charge the battery more and then turn it off and try to start without the hill. if it doesnt start then its the starter right? Thanks guys for helping me so much. Might save me hundereds in repair bills

["A"]

Bump start.. you're doing it wrong..

[pezlow010]

Ok so I turned the bike off and now it wont start again. So the starter is the problem I guess or the magnetic switch thing with the green 30A fuse.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by "A"

Bump start.. you're doing it wrong..

wow.... just wow.....

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by pezlow010

Ok so I turned the bike off and now it wont start again. So the starter is the problem I guess or the magnetic switch thing with the green 30A fuse.

It could also be a bum battery without enough amps to power the starter. Do you know how old the battery is?

[Skippii]

The clicking is the starter solenoid (relay) engaging the battery, and then immediately releasing because under load the battery voltage drops to below the activation of the relay. This is called an astable multivibrator in techspeak that has nothing to do with motorcycles.

What you need to know is that is means the battery with NO reads good, but as soon as the starter is engaged (which pulls something like 50 amps), the voltage of the batter drops down way below what it should.

In other words, it's the batter, and the starter and solenoid are (most probably) working correctly.

You got a car, right? Just jump start the bike off the car and it'll probably fire right up, which will confirm that everything is good besides the battery.

Remember that the charing systems of our bikes only work well at higher rpms, so you can't leave your bike running and expect it to charge. If you want to charge it, you either need to ride it, or leave it connected with jumper cables to a car for a while.

[Jiggles]

@Skippii Dude, thats exactly what I just said! Except a whole lot much more smarterer.

[coondog]

If it's not the fuse you need a starter. I got one used off an 06 wreck for $50. I'm thinking you have a new battery, not a re-charged dead one though.

[Skippii]

Originally Posted by coondog

If it's not the fuse you need a starter. I got one used off an 06 wreck for $50. I'm thinking you have a new battery, not a re-charged dead one though.

It's clearly not the fuse, or it wouldn't click.
If the starter was burned out, it wouldn't click either. It's the battery.

[JCCJMM_]

+1 on the battery.

I bought a maintenance-free battery from a reputable online seller that was defective and would not start my bike, even though it had an open-cell voltage of close to 13v.

On a side note, I am not a big fan of sealed batteries. I like the old school type, they seem to be more trustworthy.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Skippii

You got a car, right? Just jump start the bike off the car and it'll probably fire right up, which will confirm that everything is good besides the battery.

and make sure the car is NOT running when you're hooked up to it for a jump. Car alternators put out enough juice that you'll cook the little ninja's electrical system

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

and make sure the car is NOT running when you're hooked up to it for a jump. Car alternators put out enough juice that you'll cook the little ninja's electrical system

I still wouldn't hook up a car battery to the little ninjas battery.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I still wouldn't hook up a car battery to the little ninjas battery.

Shouldn't be a problem as long as the car is off.

[pezlow010]

Ok so I got a mechanic to look at it for free and he used a screw driver on the starter solenoid to turn the starter motor and start the bike. He said replace the silenoid and it should work just fine.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by pezlow010

Ok so I got a mechanic to look at it for free and he used a screw driver on the starter solenoid to turn the starter motor and start the bike. He said replace the silenoid and it should work just fine.

IIRC your 98 Ninja shares the same starter as the new (2008+) Ninjas. The starters on our bikes do not have a conventional solenoid (which is externally mounted and replaceable) like some starters, but uses an internal one-way clutch assembly. Our starters are one piece, however they can be broken down and internal parts replaced. The starters on the Ninja are pretty reliable as long as the are not exposed the the elements for long periods of time and get seized up.
I would look at your battery again and make sure it has the proper amperage to turn the starter. Jump start the bike from a car battery (car not running) to see if the starter turns the engine over. Although your battery read 12.5v the amps may be too low. Check the wiki for some more info. http://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Battery

[Skippii]

Originally Posted by pezlow010

Ok so I got a mechanic to look at it for free and he used a screw driver on the starter solenoid to turn the starter motor and start the bike. He said replace the silenoid and it should work just fine.

By using a screwdriver (Reminds me of one time when I borrowed a KLR with a bad starter switch...had to use the screwdriver to start it every single time), he's eliminating the lower cutoff point for the switch, which means the battery will continue to power the starter motor at a much lower voltage than otherwise would be possible.

In other words, the problem might still be the batter, and the solenoid might be good. Actually, if it clicks, that confirms that it IS good.
The solenoids very rarely give any problems. Batteries frequently do, and give the symptoms you describe.

So, my advice is to ignore the mechanic.

Now, whether you want to trust some stranger on an Internet forum over a guy who is actually a mechanic and works in the field is your decision.

But if you connect (good) jumper cables to car and it starts up, you can be sure your solenoid is good and the problem is a dead battery.

[coondog]

Originally Posted by Skippii

It's clearly not the fuse, or it wouldn't click.
If the starter was burned out, it wouldn't click either. It's the battery.

That's odd because mine did with a new battery and fuse. I installed the new(used) starter and with choke full on as time had passed; she kicked like a mule. Oh. and I listen to my mechanic, but I know who he is and his background.

[coondog]

I couldn't beleive it was a ninja 500 as i own one. Just by the sound of the engine, i don't know what you did to it, but how long til you blow the cylinders? or have you already. Great lesson on how to mutilate a beautiful 4-stroke ninja 500 parallel twin. Forgive me i'm not a mechanic and have ruined cylinders myself from outtake on (exhaust system).

[Skippii]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

[Alex]

I'm not sure he understands what he means. Coondog - what chopper are you talking about?

[Skippii]

He's talking about mine (ex500 Dirt Chopper). I'm not sure why, or where he's heard the engine...




I was mostly confused about his starter, though.

[coondog]

I thought the video (with audio) you ran was of the 500. I ruined an engine once that was too large for the cooling and exhaust system I had installed with it. It was a salvaged ninja 500 engine and it ended up sounding like whatever bike is on your tape. I screwed the pooch on that one, ruined a cylinder running it over hill and dale that summer. You most likely got the results I wanted but didn't. Was inquiring. Also just noticed in second photo posted your exhaust looks more appropriate than what I saw (heard) from the first photo and video.

[Skippii]

The engine and cooling is totally stock. I'm running Uni Pod filters on the intake.
I've changed the muffler three times.

First was a D&D (loud, heavy, and didn't fit well)


Second was a shortened stock SV650 muffler. As a joke, I removed the outer housing...

and replaced it with another that just happened to be a perfect fit:


The current muffler is homemade. It's got a very long baffle so it's surprisingly quiet--a very deep rumble, not that loud sharp sound most sportbikes have. It's also got a USFS approved spark arrestor.

[94fiveohvert]

That's a pretty sweet lookin chopper, how did it handle on/off road? maybe it needs it's own thread. unless there is one?

[Skippii]

Originally Posted by 94fiveohvert

That's a pretty sweet lookin chopper, how did it handle on/off road? maybe it needs it's own thread. unless there is one?

I'll post up a thread tomorrow. I have most of it posted on another site, but all the pics are now dead links I'll have to fix.
It handles decently both on and off road. Not great, but far better than just about any other bike with apehangers.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Skippii

I'll post up a thread tomorrow. I have most of it posted on another site, but all the pics are now dead links I'll have to fix.
It handles decently both on and off road. Not great, but far better than just about any other bike with apehangers.

Oh crap, another novel from Skippii

[coondog]

Originally Posted by Skippii

The engine and cooling is totally stock. I'm running Uni Pod filters on the intake.
I've changed the muffler three times.

First was a D&D (loud, heavy, and didn't fit well)


Second was a shortened stock SV650 muffler. As a joke, I removed the outer housing...

and replaced it with another that just happened to be a perfect fit:


The current muffler is homemade. It's got a very long baffle so it's surprisingly quiet--a very deep rumble, not that loud sharp sound most sportbikes have. It's also got a USFS approved spark arrestor.

Ahhh. it was the chopped, naked SV can. And the angle of the photo from from the front so it looked really short, stubby. Anyway, glad for your success where I failed, though it was a hell of a summer overall. Peace out, thanks for explaining.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by pezlow010

i charged it over night so not really sure how long it took. i used multimeter and tested the battery and it tested 12.5v~

Originally Posted by pezlow010

Ok so I got a mechanic to look at it for free and he used a screw driver on the starter solenoid to turn the starter motor and start the bike. He said replace the silenoid and it should work just fine.

If your battery was only 12.5V after a charge, then the battery is shot too. The voltage after charging should be somewhere around 13.5V until it settles and then will be about 12.7V. Settling takes about an hour.

The solenoid isn't going to work if the battery is too low. Measure the battery voltage while you are cranking it. The voltage should not drop below 10V. If it does, get a new battery.