Noob here..Probably dumb questions.

[erikonetime]

Hey guys I'm Erik.
So I just bought a 2004 Ninja for a pretty good price. Clean title, upgraded fairings, relatively low miles, in good condition.

However, I got it for super cheap cause the engine doesn't run.
Here's how the previous owner described it:
"I was driving, it died, got home, and a few weeks later a buddy opened the engine up and fixed two broken rocker arms. It started but made a loud clicking noise and didn't sound good."

Now, it's in my garage waiting to be worked on. The battery isn't hooked up and apparently needs to have stuff put back together before I can try to start it (haven't looked much at it yet). I literally got this bike 6 hours ago. Could it be a simple valve problem? I'm pretty fimiliar with car engines but this is my first bike.
I also found a seller locally that will sell me a running 250 engine for about a hundred bucks. Worth it to buy that and just swap it? What should I look for before hand?

sorry for the noob questions. In the process of searching to find answers as I post this

[CalvinAmI]

BUY THE EXTRA ENGINE!!!
Swap the engine, and tinker with the broken one in your spare time and sell it for $200 instantly. Win-win

Oh, and what do you mean by "upgraded fairings"? Pics please =)

[Jiggles]

Damn I bet you got that bike for $500 and then with a $100 engine??? Good deal

[Stingray1000]

Agreed very good deal

[choneofakind]

Buy the engine.

[jschatte]

buy the engine! That is an awesome deal for a running engine. Plus swapping out the engine is very straightforward and easy as compared to trouble shooting issues with the valvetrain that could lead to larger problems. Sounds like the previous owner didnt completely know what was going on, and that can cause alot of headaches on your part.

[csmith12]

Fine words so far! And there is no such thing as a dumb question.

Best of luck and safe travels!

[csmith12]

and Welcome!

[erikonetime]

Turns out the engine on the bike is seized. Should be picking up the spare today around three. I'll stay posted, and eventually post some pictures of her thanks guys!

[erikonetime]

Also, I bought the spare engine. It turned over fine so I figured it was worth the money. Now on to the fun part: Swapping it.

[csmith12]

Bout 3-4 hours work with a friend or two a few beers. Have fun with it, take your time and clean while you go.

[erikonetime]

So I got the spare engine in. Everything hooked up, changed the oil, new spark plugs. Now the engine turns over freely but won't start.

Since its new plugs I don't think its spark. I'm also pretty sure it's getting fuel. Is there anything i should look for?

[erikonetime]

Tested and spark is okay. Also there is a burst of air coming out of each tailpipe as I try to start it. It comes pretty close to starting sometimes but still hasn't.
Also empied the float bowls on the carbs and the gas in it was pretty golden.
I'm guessing my next step is to clean the carbs..

[CmichRider]

Cleaning the carbs is somewhat of a rite-of-passage for ninjette owners. Seems everyone but the FI peeps have to do it at least once.

[TeamGreen]

Originally Posted by erikonetime

Tested and spark is okay. Also there is a burst of air coming out of each tailpipe as I try to start it. It comes pretty close to starting sometimes but still hasn't.
Also empied the float bowls on the carbs and the gas in it was pretty golden.
I'm guessing my next step is to clean the carbs..

Did the seller say how long it's been sitting? Yeah if you went through the trouble of an engine swap you'll want to go through the fuel system too.

[erikonetime]

I did get it to start, but it only runs for about 20 seconds then dies. Also dies if I give it any gas which leans towards a carb problem
Honestly no idea how long it has been sitting. I do have a spare carburetor though, just gonna clean that tomorrow and put it on, along with a couple of gallons of some clean gas.

[choneofakind]

How long has it been sitting? If mine sits for a month or longer (winterized of course) it can be a real b**ch to start and doesn't like throttle at all. Once I've been riding it, it likes me again. That first start out of storage is a pain.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Get it running with the choke, and play with the throttle/choke combo to keep it running, then take it for a good 30 mile ride and see how it feels.

[erikonetime]

Well I went out and bought some gas, put it in, and tried to start it a couple times.
When it finally started, the rpms started shooting up. It went beyond 5k and I didn't want anything to happen so I killed it.

So I messed with the choke a little the next time I started it, and same thing kept happening. Either it would die, or shoot up, no in between. I only let it run about 30 seconds each time (getting late here, don't wanna piss off neighbors). I'll mess with it more tomorrow.

Also, after it was running for that short period of time, I noticed some smoke coming out of the exhaust pipes....I also saw a drip of what looked like oil come out. Not sure if it was oil, may have just been condensation ? No idea.

[erikonetime]

Oh and here's how she looked the day I bought her. Picture was the picture in the craigslist ad lol.

Paint was faded, I primered all of the fairings grey and I'm gonna paint them soon. More pictures soon.

[erikonetime]

Got it running a little better, and I was able to drive it around the block a couple times. Seems like its running a little hot, not sure how it runs normally though

[choneofakind]

I'm undecided on how I feel about the airtech streamlining tail...

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I'm undecided on how I feel about the airtech streamlining tail...

Is that what that thing is called? I'm definitely not undecided how I feel about it.

Amber gas means its been sitting a while. Broken rocker arms means that he overtorqued the adjuster nuts and broke the rocker arms. Once they break, all hell breaks loose if the engine is run. A siezed engine most likely means that the valves are impacting the pistons - which also implies that the cam chain timing is off. In other words, be glad you bought the new engine.

Anyhow, when rebuilding the carbs, don't start until you have watched a few youtube videos on how its done. There are lots of things that need to be done with Ninja carbs that you don't have to do on a car. And also you can destroy your diaphragms is you aren't careful ($100 each to replace). You need to watch several videos to get a feel for it.

To get started, drain the float bowls while its still on the bike. Once its off, then remove the diaphragms, needles and other junk in that area and put it some place safe. The diaphragms are made of a really thin rubber that gasoline and carb cleaners will destroy. Did I mention they cost $100 each?

Inside there are two jets, the main and the pilot. They both have to be removed and cleaned. There are multiple holes that must be cleaned that both go through it longways and also crossways. I use 32 gauge copper wire, but others use plastic toothbrushes. Then go back and use carb cleaner spray to blast out the passageways inside the carb.

Have fun.

[erikonetime]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Is that what that thing is called? I'm definitely not undecided how I feel about it.
...
Have fun.

Is that a bad ? I think it looks alright. I'd prefer OEM but thats what it came with, and it's starting to grow on me.

Also, Thanks for the tips. The engine I bought came with a set of carbs, so I think I'm gonna try to clean those as good as I can then swap them out for the set that's already on the bike. If all goes well maybe I could clean my extra set and sell them

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by erikonetime

Is that a bad ? I think it looks alright. I'd prefer OEM but thats what it came with, and it's starting to grow on me.

Yes, its that bad. But on a positive note, the gray primer looks fabulous compared to the original color. It looks like the side panels were glued to the tail section. That makes it kind of hard to do basic maintenance such as checking the coolant levels and rear brake levels.

Fortunately the tail section is fairly cheap on ebay (listing), but it looks like you are missing other parts too such as the cargo hooks and grab bar.

And hopefully without insulting 99% of the forum members here, I will say that when you see mods like that on an innocent Ninja, you know the previous owner was not a 97 year old grandmother that only rode it to church every Sunday going less than 30 mph.

As far as the engine replacement goes, also be aware of the miles on the new vs the old. If the new engine has high miles, then you might want to go back to the original once you get the rockers fixed.

[erikonetime]

I'm actually entirely unaware of the miles on the engine...I know it's from a '99 but it looked like it was in better condition than the one in my '04. And so far it runs and sounds fine.

I also swapped the other carb onto it. I was going to clean it, but I began the process and took of the float bowls and was astounded to see they were spotless. Like, they looked brand new! Someone must've already cleaned them before I got them. I still cleaned what I could, and swapped em on. The ones on the bike were horrible though (green gunk, etc).

Needless to say, swapping the carbs fixed 90% of my problems. The bike actually responds to throttle and runs without the choke on! Lol. Bike still runs a little hot, and something's going on with the petcock. I'll dig into those problems tomorrow.

[n4mwd]

The bikes all tend to run a little on the hot side. As long as they don't actually get into the red, they are OK. Check to make sure your fan comes on. You'll know it does because it will come on after you turn the bike off sometimes.

One way to test for borderline carbs is to go up to 60 mph, 6th gear, then coast down to 30, still in 6th, WOT to get back to 60. If the bike misfires on acceleration, then the carbs need attention. Just don't confuse a little clutch lugging with misfiring.

As far as the petcock goes, if you can pull the hoses off when the petcock is "ON" and gas doesn't drip out (other than a few drops in the hose) then its probably OK. If the petcock drips, its time for a new membrane. If turning it OFF doesn't stop the drip, then the knob gasket is bad too (but that's very rare). With Ninja's, you should never have to turn the knob to OFF.

Anyhow, it sounds like you have it working good now.

[erikonetime]

Update. So I drained the gas in the gas tank and refilled it. No problem with the petcock, I just never thought to empty the tank.. (it had a miniscule amount when I bought it, and I added a gallon of fresh fuel to it). Bike is running great now.
However, the throttle gets stuck.. I looked at the throttle return spring on the carb I swapped on, and it's all bent and jacked up. I can actually see where it was damaged.

So my question now is, Is there a way to replace the throttle return spring easily?
I've figured no, I can't find a writeup anywhere. So I already went ahead and cleaned my other carbs. If there's no way to replace the spring, I'm just gonna have to swap the other carbs in tomorrow, not lookin' forward to it.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by erikonetime

Update. So I drained the gas in the gas tank and refilled it. No problem with the petcock,
...
So my question now is, Is there a way to replace the throttle return spring easily?

I would try to bend it back being careful not to bend the shaft. Don't try to remove the shaft, carbs are made with trick screws that break off when you try to remove them. But the easiest thing might be to just clean the old one.

As far as the petcock goes, you should not get any gas out of it unless you put a vacuum on the vacuum port. If it comes out by itself, its bad. This is true for all settings.

[erikonetime]

This bike is just problems upon problems. I was able to bend the throttle spring back, and install the carb back on the bike with the throttle working correctly. I go to start it, and it acts as if it got dirty again somehow in the day it was off. Dies when throttle is added or choke is off.
I even took apart the one that came on the bike and cleaned it, and put it on, and same damn problem!
The petcock is working. I also bypassed the fuel filter to see if it was clogged and still the same problem.
I even tried seafoam in the gas tank/sitting in carb overnight. Nothing seems to work. I just spent 150 on registration and another 150 on MSP classes, and finally I'm legally aloud to ride the bike. But it's not running. I'm losing hope with this.

[n4mwd]

is there anyway you can check the compression on a new engine? the symptoms sound like a dirty carburetor but since you have 2 of them it seems kind of strange.

[erikonetime]

The compression on the engine is fine. The engine isn't the problem here. There is some problem with fuel delivery, and I know this for a fact.

I took apart the carbs again today and spent a good two hours cleaning them as good as possible. Used parts cleaner and soaked all of the jets, as well as carb cleaner to clean the body. Also used compressed air to make sure all of the lines on the carburetor were clear.

I think the problem I am having lies within the petcock/gas tank. I noticed if you disconnect all lines and put the petcock's position to "ON", a few drips come out. In the "RESERVE" it flows freely. "OFF" is off.
SOOO.....I took off the petcock and took it apart. All rubber seals/gaskets looked fine. I also used parts cleaner to clean the metal parts. The filters were not dirty.

I reassembled it, installed it in the tank, and now in all positions, no fuel comes out (unless vacuum is applied). I installed the tank on the bike, turn the petcock to "ON", and try to crank the bike for 30 second intervals, and failed to start. I have a clear in-line fuel filter and it is full of fuel. (It is not clogged, brand new). Something is going on here, and I don't know what it is.

[n4mwd]

I think you are right sbout the carbs. I dont use cleaners the clean the jets. I use 32 gauge wire. Its the only way to be sure they are clear. The diaphram in your petcock is bad. Turn it to OFF when not running until you can get a replacement. To start , treat it like a flooded engine. Choke off. Throttle wide open to crank. If reserve leaks and run doesnt, then you fuel is low.

[erikonetime]

Yeah I am 90% certain the problem is the petcock. I will be trying to find a new one asap. I also may need to be getting a new battery since mine won't hold a charge very well. After riding it for 15 minutes, I tried to start it immediately after I killed it, and it would barely turn over.
Getting closer to having a reliable bike though, which is a good thing.

[n4mwd]

I think the dealer only charges about $20 for a new diaphragm.