"Throwing it in."

[Worldtraveller]

I'm hoping some of you might be able to help me out with my cornering. I know I'm still working on my body position, but I've mostly broken my old habit of being crossed up, then easing into the right position. I immediately go to about where I need to be (kissing the imaginary mirror....), but, I still find myself 'easing' into the lean. Unfortunately, this means my entry speed is lower than it should be, and I'm watching the fast guys run away from me.

Is it just a matter of developing the feel, or does anyone have any advice for getting to full lean faster? I think at the apex I am usually at or near the ideal corner speed, but on shorter corners, I almost never get there. It's only on the longer sweeping/carousel type turns where I really feel the full lean and get into it. (luckily, both tracks I run have at least a couple of good sweepers.

[Sirref]

hmm, I naturally don't have that problem. I'm able to just toss the bike to the ground seemingly as will. It could be that I practice slaloms a lot which makes me very comfortable with how quickly I can turn the bike in (to a point) I can't really speak as my entry speeds were low yesterday anyway after I went into a corner hot went wide and sent myself wide for the next corner as well leading to a lowside when I tried to force it to stay on the track (virtually no run off area and the edge of the track was unusable)

actually I could give you the same advice that my coach gave me, just take it easy and be patient, enter a little bit slower than you think you can but follow the same line you would at higher speeds (aka tossing the bike to the ground in one fluid motion and then powering out) and the speed will naturally come lap by lap without you even noticing it
I'm not sure if it helps but it helped me a lot

[spooph]

I have no idea what your experience is... How long have you been riding? How far have you ridden?

The best piece of advice I can give you is to be patient with yourself. Skill doesn't happen over night. Keep in mind most MotoGP guys start racing at age 4. I use MotoGP as an example for they are the best of the best, and as the technology trickles down to our bikes, their technique also does...

Watch any of them. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast, and slow becomes faster with time and experience.

1 or 1/2 cheek on the seat, butt fairly far back on the seat (a few inches between the tank and your crotch).

Ball of your foot on the pegs.

Hands light on the handlebars, elbows comfortably tucked in.

Chin on the outside and behind your hand/handlebar.

Proper suspension setup with sag/compression/dampening set up for your riding style...

Good command of your tires - ie, shave those chicken strips to nothing so you have a good frame of reference of what is too far and what isn't far enough and can then decide to reposition your body, or if lean is going to work for which ever corner as the strategy changes depending on what's further ahead on the course...

With that then settled and practiced something you can try:

Brake late and hard. The harder and later you brake the less time you spend braking, the shorter the wheelbase gets, and quicker you can turn in....

[Sirref]

^ I agree to the shorter wheelbase thing. Lowering the front end shortened my wheelbase a bit and the bike felt infinitely better tossing it into the corners. It took me a while to get comfortable on the setup though since it's drastically different from my street riding setup

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Sirref

It could be that I practice slaloms a lot which makes me very comfortable with how quickly I can turn the bike in

Ben is spot on.

What you are asking about is called "lazy steering" and the solution is a "quick flick". It is well documented in TOTWII and visually demonstrated in the DVD. imho, the quick flick cannot be mastered until you have a good foundation of visual skills in place.

Questions:
Do many riders turn in too early or too late?
If you move your turn in point closer to the corner, what do you have to do to make your line (assuming the same entry speed)?
Is it easier to turn in while on or off the throttle?

[Worldtraveller]

Thanks for the input. I suspect it's mostly just a matter of getting the feel. I've only done a few trackdays and one actual race weekend last season.

Next race weekend is the 26th!

Maybe it's a combination of old age, and my memory of racing back in the 80s being better than I actually was, but it seems like I used to just throw that bike into the corners. Course, I was younger then.....

[alex.s]

it's a shove. like you're shoving someone off some stairs. the force you put onto the bar looks like a sine wave. when you do it fast enough you push with a single smooth shove and then stop pushing and let the bars do the rest as the bike flops over. depending on how steep you have the front you might need to "catch" it on the way back down to slow your roll if you've really given it the goose. obviously pull the bike up some first if you're at full lean the opposite direction

[CC Cowboy]

You want to like a ballerina on the bike, smooth, fluid and graceful. This will result in better braking and suspension motions. Practice being smooth and speed will follow.

Slow in, fast out, might help your body positioning.

[cbinker]

The best way to go faster is get with a coach at the track. I was away from the track for two years and one of my friends/coaches said he could get me back up to speed in a couple laps of following me, then me following him on his lines. nocked 3 seconds off my times.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Worldtraveller

.......... I suspect it's mostly just a matter of getting the feel..............
Maybe it's a combination of old age, and my memory of racing back in the 80s being better than I actually was, but it seems like I used to just throw that bike into the corners. Course, I was younger then.....

With enough time and practice, slow becomes smooth; smooth becomes fast.

http://biketrackdayshub.com/late-ape...e-racing-lines

http://biketrackdayshub.com/how-to-turn-a-motorcycle

Once again, I bring this article written by Keith Code about quick flick:

"The truth is: if you can't quick turn your motorcycle, you won't even try..........

Even the thought of making quick steering changes on a motorcycle is enough to raise goosebumps the size of eggs on most riders and the commonly cited reason for them is the seemingly very real sense that the front or rear or both wheels will wash out.............

Another and very real concern is: an aggressive direction change with the front or rear or both brakes applied, something that often accompanies a panic situation. You can ask the front tire to take a substantial cornering load or a fistful of front brake but you may not ask it to do them both at the same time; them's the rules of rubber. That's one for Physics."

Read full article here:
http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=109