Describe a smooth shift

OCMagnum · June 13th, 2013, 08:07 AM

Ok guys, interested to hear your opinion. What do you consider a smooth shift? I am not talking about the technique in itself as I believe I got a fairly good grip on that, but rather just like to get a feel what you guys consider smooth.

As background, I have been back on two wheels for about 10 months now (after about 20 years away) and have put 3500 miles on the Ninjette and 3000 miles on the Ducati Monster 696, so I definitely still consider myself a newb. That said, while certainly not perfect, I would consider my shifting much improved (most of the time at least

) compared to when I started back out. No signfincant jerking or launching forward. What I do notice however, and especially when I can watch my headlight reflecting in a car ahead of me, is that the front does dip a bit when I shift. Not a whole lot, but noticeable.

So my question to more experienced riders here; what do you consider smooth? Are you guys able to shift without changing load on the front at all, or is just the nature of shifting that there always will be that little amount of a dip?

Again, I would not consider my current shiftin to be an issue when I ride and I know that it can only get better with more miles and practice, just trying to understand what the ideal shift feels like to you guys.

Cheers!

OCMagnum · June 13th, 2013, 08:16 AM

btw; as I was doing some research on this topic, I came across this, which I thought was a pretty cool demo of how a bike transmission works:

http://www.gadgetjq.com/transmission.htm

Motofool · June 13th, 2013, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCMagnum

...........What do you consider a smooth shift?............So my question to more experienced riders here; what do you consider smooth?

Something that feels like this:
. _ .

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCMagnum

.......................What I do notice however, and especially when I can watch my headlight reflecting in a car ahead of me, is that the front does dip a bit when I shift. Not a whole lot, but noticeable.
.........
Are you guys able to shift without changing load on the front at all, or is just the nature of shifting that there always will be that little amount of a dip?

I would say that little pitch change is normal each time that the mass of the bike goes from being accelerated (tensioned chain) to being decelerated (relaxed chain and wind and road friction taking over) to being accelerated (maybe harder by a new gear combination).

The time of that deceleration is what racers try to minimize, keeping the forward momentum of the bike as constant as possible.
In that pursuit, they use clutch-less shifting (up and down).

For street riding, smoothly using the clutch and timing the next couple of gears have worked well for me.

CC Cowboy · June 13th, 2013, 11:04 AM

brrrrrrrm,brrrrrrrm

headshrink · June 13th, 2013, 11:10 AM

Butter.

Alex · June 13th, 2013, 11:24 AM

When shifting on the street, the goal for me is no jerkiness. Smooth engagement either upshifting or downshifting, without upsetting the bike. But if you're accelerating reasonable swiftly, the shift is going to pause that acceleration for a fraction of a second no matter how smooth you are, and the bike weight distribution will come forward a bit. The softer the suspension, both front and rear, the more noticeable that shift will be.

csmith12 · June 13th, 2013, 11:35 AM

^^^ Alex knows what's up. If your front dives more than you are comfortable with maybe you should have your suspension set to your weight. Your duck should have all the adjustments required to set it to your liking assuming your fully geared weight is within the params of your equipment.

Also, it's the best mod that can ever be done to effect the rideability of your bike. It can be fairly cheap too. Like at a track day, even if you don't ride the track you can still visit the suspension tech that is there for the day. Make sure you get his shop info too.

alex.s · June 13th, 2013, 01:09 PM

upshift feels like somebody tapped the back of your chair

down shift feels like somebody tapped the bottom of your shoes.

RJprod · June 13th, 2013, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCMagnum

Ok guys, interested to hear your opinion. What do you consider a smooth shift? I am not talking about the technique in itself as I believe I got a fairly good grip on that, but rather just like to get a feel what you guys consider smooth.

As background, I have been back on two wheels for about 10 months now (after about 20 years away) and have put 3500 miles on the Ninjette and 3000 miles on the Ducati Monster 696, so I definitely still consider myself a newb. That said, while certainly not perfect, I would consider my shifting much improved (most of the time at least

) compared to when I started back out. No signfincant jerking or launching forward. What I do notice however, and especially when I can watch my headlight reflecting in a car ahead of me, is that the front does dip a bit when I shift. Not a whole lot, but noticeable.

So my question to more experienced riders here; what do you consider smooth? Are you guys able to shift without changing load on the front at all, or is just the nature of shifting that there always will be that little amount of a dip?

Again, I would not consider my current shiftin to be an issue when I ride and I know that it can only get better with more miles and practice, just trying to understand what the ideal shift feels like to you guys.

Cheers!

I have the same question also... I've just started doing everything extra smooth about 2 months ago, including shifting.. when I upshift from any other gear it feels really smooth, but from first to second gear especially from a dead stop I can hear the clanking sound... ninjette riders, has the transition from 1st to 2nd gear always this rocky? or is just me..?

OCMagnum · June 13th, 2013, 02:29 PM

Some excellent explanations; you guys truly rock!

Plus it sounds as if my shifting is not too bad in the grand scheme of things, so yeah to me too

headshrink · June 13th, 2013, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJprod

... ninjette riders, has the transition from 1st to 2nd gear always this rocky? or is just me..?

Probably, but not as bad a N to 1st.

EDIT: My bad, I didn't really read the whole question. I was only referring to putting the transmission into gear.... the part that requires no skill or feel.

250rr · June 14th, 2013, 05:12 PM

mmmm mmmmm mmmmm waaaa waaaa waaaa. Repeat.

allanoue · June 15th, 2013, 06:37 AM

Link to original page on YouTube.

June 13th, 2013, 08:07 AM	#1
OCMagnum ninjette.org member Name: OC Location: SoCal Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Aprilia Dorsoduro 750, 2012 Ducati Monster 696 (sold), 2012 Ninja 250 (sold) Posts: 168	Describe a smooth shift Ok guys, interested to hear your opinion. What do you consider a smooth shift? I am not talking about the technique in itself as I believe I got a fairly good grip on that, but rather just like to get a feel what you guys consider smooth. As background, I have been back on two wheels for about 10 months now (after about 20 years away) and have put 3500 miles on the Ninjette and 3000 miles on the Ducati Monster 696, so I definitely still consider myself a newb. That said, while certainly not perfect, I would consider my shifting much improved (most of the time at least ) compared to when I started back out. No signfincant jerking or launching forward. What I do notice however, and especially when I can watch my headlight reflecting in a car ahead of me, is that the front does dip a bit when I shift. Not a whole lot, but noticeable. So my question to more experienced riders here; what do you consider smooth? Are you guys able to shift without changing load on the front at all, or is just the nature of shifting that there always will be that little amount of a dip? Again, I would not consider my current shiftin to be an issue when I ride and I know that it can only get better with more miles and practice, just trying to understand what the ideal shift feels like to you guys. Cheers!

June 13th, 2013, 11:04 AM	#4
CC Cowboy ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Whodat Location: Ware Is.,MA Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): I pass the wind! Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '13, Jun '14	brrrrrrrm,brrrrrrrm __________________________________________________ If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough!

June 13th, 2013, 11:10 AM	#5
headshrink ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Bob Location: CA Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250r, '14 CBR500r Posts: A lot.	Butter. __________________________________________________ Honda Interceptor VFR800 DLX (2014, 8th gen) Honda CBR500r (2014) - FOR SALE Kawi Ninja 250r (2008) - Restored and passed-down within family, only to be abandoned

June 13th, 2013, 11:24 AM	#6
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	When shifting on the street, the goal for me is no jerkiness. Smooth engagement either upshifting or downshifting, without upsetting the bike. But if you're accelerating reasonable swiftly, the shift is going to pause that acceleration for a fraction of a second no matter how smooth you are, and the bike weight distribution will come forward a bit. The softer the suspension, both front and rear, the more noticeable that shift will be. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

June 13th, 2013, 11:35 AM	#7
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	^^^ Alex knows what's up. If your front dives more than you are comfortable with maybe you should have your suspension set to your weight. Your duck should have all the adjustments required to set it to your liking assuming your fully geared weight is within the params of your equipment. Also, it's the best mod that can ever be done to effect the rideability of your bike. It can be fairly cheap too. Like at a track day, even if you don't ride the track you can still visit the suspension tech that is there for the day. Make sure you get his shop info too. __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

June 13th, 2013, 08:16 AM	#2
OCMagnum ninjette.org member Name: OC Location: SoCal Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Aprilia Dorsoduro 750, 2012 Ducati Monster 696 (sold), 2012 Ninja 250 (sold) Posts: 168	btw; as I was doing some research on this topic, I came across this, which I thought was a pretty cool demo of how a bike transmission works: http://www.gadgetjq.com/transmission.htm

June 13th, 2013, 01:09 PM	#8
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	upshift feels like somebody tapped the back of your chair down shift feels like somebody tapped the bottom of your shoes. __________________________________________________

June 13th, 2013, 02:29 PM	#10
OCMagnum ninjette.org member Name: OC Location: SoCal Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Aprilia Dorsoduro 750, 2012 Ducati Monster 696 (sold), 2012 Ninja 250 (sold) Posts: 168	Some excellent explanations; you guys truly rock! Plus it sounds as if my shifting is not too bad in the grand scheme of things, so yeah to me too

June 14th, 2013, 05:12 PM	#12
250rr ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Mark Location: Portland Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): Cheap Italian Suit. Otherwise known as Dew Kitty Posts: A lot.	mmmm mmmmm mmmmm waaaa waaaa waaaa. Repeat.
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

June 15th, 2013, 06:37 AM	#13
allanoue ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Al Location: York, Pa Join Date: Dec 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninja 300..............2008 Ninja 500-sold...2009 Ninja 250-Crashed Posts: Too much. MOTM - Sep '14	Link to original page on YouTube.

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