Car trouble while flushing coolant

MrAtom · October 23rd, 2016, 08:06 PM

Thermostat went bad so I decided to flush the coolant while I was in there. It was pretty clean so I flushed it with distilled water only twice and it came out crystal clear. However, the second time I flushed it, as I was filling it, it foamed a bit. It looked like soapy suds. It did not do this with the first flush, or when I was filling it with coolant. I've heard that this is a symptom of head gasket failure, but it may have been air bubbles + old coolant? What do you folks think?

Also, its a 1997 Honda civic. Old coolant was a dark, opaque green, but it didn't have any oil in it ( at least it didnt seem to. Coolant + oil separates because they're polar and nonpolar, correct? Similar to oil and water) I'd love to hear your thoughts.

csmith12 · October 23rd, 2016, 08:18 PM

Try again... most likely improper coolant system burping (yes even on cages).

Google how to burp the coolant system on your cage. Some cars/trucks are incredibly hard to get all the air out of the system.

Pro tip: Turn the heater on full blast and bring the vehicle up to operating temp before finishing the final burp. Stubborn vehicles need the engine revved a few times or the system opened in multiple places to force out of an hydrolock. :\ Be prepared to clean up spilled coolant. :\

Triple Jim · October 23rd, 2016, 08:41 PM

When you saw the foam, was the engine running? Foaming coolant is a symptom of head gasket failure, but happens when the engine is running.

MrAtom · October 23rd, 2016, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

Try again... most likely improper coolant system burping (yes even on cages).

Google how to burp the coolant system on your cage. Some cars/trucks are incredibly hard to get all the air out of the system.

Pro tip: Turn the heater on full blast and bring the vehicle up to operating temp before finishing the final burp. Stubborn vehicles need the engine revved a few times or the system opened in multiple places to force out of an hydrolock. :\ Be prepared to clean up spilled coolant. :\

Its my first time doing a coolant flush, so let's hope its user error

also, I thought hydrolock was when water got into the cylinder. Does improper cooling system burping force coolant into the cylinder?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

When you saw the foam, was the engine running? Foaming coolant is a symptom of head gasket failure, but happens when the engine is running.

Yes, the engine was running.

I have had success with k-seal/bars copper (same stuff) with issues bigger than this. I'll put some in for good measure. And by some, I mean some. I know it can clog stuff if you put a lot in and leave it there for a long time. If someone does have an opposing view, I'll gladly listen though.

csmith12 · October 23rd, 2016, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrAtom

I thought hydrolock was when water got into the cylinder. Does improper cooling system burping force coolant into the cylinder?
Does improper cooling system burping force coolant into the cylinder?

No, the main fluid systems (oil, coolant, gas, trans, brake) are completely isolated from each other. If there is a mix of any of them, there is a failure (gasket or worse

) somewhere.

Sorry, I mean hydrolock by pressures affecting how the coolant system flows air in and out. For example, my 250 will not completely drain ALL coolant unless opened up at the cap as well as the drain bolt. 2 breaks in the overall system seal.

What kinda car you got?

MrAtom · October 23rd, 2016, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

No, the main fluid systems (oil, coolant, gas, trans, brake) are completely isolated from each other. If there is a mix of any of them, there is a failure (gasket or worse

) somewhere.

Sorry, I mean hydrolock by pressures affecting how the coolant system flows air in and out. For example, my 250 will not completely drain ALL coolant unless opened up at the cap as well as the drain bolt. 2 breaks in the overall system seal.

What kinda car you got?

1997 civic. I did forget to turn the heat on for a while during my second flush, and I didn't squeeze the radiator hose that time (the foaming distracted me).

csmith12 · October 24th, 2016, 04:37 AM

Cool, iirc civic's have a coolant system bleeder valve to do the final burp with the car at full operating temp.

MrAtom · October 24th, 2016, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

Cool...

I see what you did there.

FrugalNinja250 · October 25th, 2016, 07:56 AM

Most cooling systems rely on pressurization from thermal expansion against the radiator cap as part of their strategy to prevent steam pockets and pump cavitation. It's possible that running the engine without the cap would allow the water pump to cavitate, and that cavitation would definitely produce foam.

A head gasket failure to the cooling system has two main symptoms: Coolant gets pushed out of the system through the overflow bottle because combustion pressure is far higher than cooling system pressure, and steam/sweet-smelling exhaust as coolant is sucked into the cylinder on the intake stroke. A quick check for that problem is to pull the plugs. A coolant leak into a cylinder will clean all the carbon off one plug so that it will be much, much cleaner than the other plugs. If you have an inspection camera you can look at the piston tops and the affected piston top will also be very clean compared to the others. If your local shop has an exhaust gas analyzer they can stick the probe into the airspace at the top of the overflow bottle and see if the machine picks up combustion byproducts like HC, CO, and NOx. If it does then that's a definite indicator of a head gasket problem.

October 23rd, 2016, 08:06 PM	#1
MrAtom . Name: . Location: . Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: A lot. MOTM - July '15	Car trouble while flushing coolant Thermostat went bad so I decided to flush the coolant while I was in there. It was pretty clean so I flushed it with distilled water only twice and it came out crystal clear. However, the second time I flushed it, as I was filling it, it foamed a bit. It looked like soapy suds. It did not do this with the first flush, or when I was filling it with coolant. I've heard that this is a symptom of head gasket failure, but it may have been air bubbles + old coolant? What do you folks think? Also, its a 1997 Honda civic. Old coolant was a dark, opaque green, but it didn't have any oil in it ( at least it didnt seem to. Coolant + oil separates because they're polar and nonpolar, correct? Similar to oil and water) I'd love to hear your thoughts.

October 23rd, 2016, 08:18 PM	#2
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	Try again... most likely improper coolant system burping (yes even on cages). Google how to burp the coolant system on your cage. Some cars/trucks are incredibly hard to get all the air out of the system. Pro tip: Turn the heater on full blast and bring the vehicle up to operating temp before finishing the final burp. Stubborn vehicles need the engine revved a few times or the system opened in multiple places to force out of an hydrolock. :\ Be prepared to clean up spilled coolant. :\ __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

October 24th, 2016, 04:37 AM	#7
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	Cool, iirc civic's have a coolant system bleeder valve to do the final burp with the car at full operating temp. __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

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Triple Jim Guy Who Enjoys Riding Name: Jim Location: North Carolina Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16	When you saw the foam, was the engine running? Foaming coolant is a symptom of head gasket failure, but happens when the engine is running.

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FrugalNinja250 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Frugal Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.	Most cooling systems rely on pressurization from thermal expansion against the radiator cap as part of their strategy to prevent steam pockets and pump cavitation. It's possible that running the engine without the cap would allow the water pump to cavitate, and that cavitation would definitely produce foam. A head gasket failure to the cooling system has two main symptoms: Coolant gets pushed out of the system through the overflow bottle because combustion pressure is far higher than cooling system pressure, and steam/sweet-smelling exhaust as coolant is sucked into the cylinder on the intake stroke. A quick check for that problem is to pull the plugs. A coolant leak into a cylinder will clean all the carbon off one plug so that it will be much, much cleaner than the other plugs. If you have an inspection camera you can look at the piston tops and the affected piston top will also be very clean compared to the others. If your local shop has an exhaust gas analyzer they can stick the probe into the airspace at the top of the overflow bottle and see if the machine picks up combustion byproducts like HC, CO, and NOx. If it does then that's a definite indicator of a head gasket problem.