Jumping ship in 2015 - Yamaha R25/R3

[JohnnyBravo]

I like it, does it come in Kawi lime??

[Klondike1020]

I am thinking That new yammi is so nice for the price.

What is the deal with the direct drive cam .... ?>

[choneofakind]

^^ Dunno, trying to find info now.

Spec sheet says 169kg wet weight. That's manageable.

[Hero Danny]

Weighs less, better clip ons and bigger engine than the ninja 300.... Kawi has it's competition cut out for them.... Hopefully it absolutely is amazing, I want to see kawi step up their game.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by Klondike1020

What is the deal with the direct drive cam .... ?>

Well, I'm guessing that it's not driven by a chain but by a gear instead. No cam chain or chain tensioner to wear out.

[choneofakind]

If it's gear driven, it will also have some badass whines and whirrs every time the engine revs

[Linkin]

Ring me when they come out with a new 250-300cc inline 4 that revs to 20k RPM

[choneofakind]

Let's be real; don't hold your breath.

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Let's be real; don't hold your breath.

I agree... that will never happen.... Just buy an old CBR 250...

[xorbe]

2x150 = 300cc parallel twin @ 35 whp
3x150 = 450cc triple @ 70 whp MIA
4x150 = 600cc super sport @ 105 whp

[SMman]

Looks great. I will getting out for a test ride on one this spring.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Let's be real; don't hold your breath.

The recent rumors that Kawi was doing this may make sense in light of this. Kawi knew Yami was up to something and rather than follow them into "cheater" territory, they got to work upping the cylinder count. Three cylinders may make more sense.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by CZroe

The recent rumors that Kawi was doing this may make sense in light of this. Kawi knew Yami was up to something and rather than follow them into "cheater" territory, they got to work upping the cylinder count. Three cylinders may make more sense.

Fair enough, we'll have to see how it unfolds. I was kind of wondering how far the one-up-manship was going to go with adding displacement; too far and they've gotten into CBR500 territory and potentially beyond bikes that are rookie friendly, stupid proof machines like they're intended to be.

I think the displacement creep is soon over. I think the next way for small bikes to evolve is spec level and chassis design. I think we'll start seeing frames that are stiffer with more gusseting and bracing so they perform more like a stiff SS-style cradle frame without the costs associated with manufacturing. I like how Yami used a 298mm floating rotor on the R3. I think that's a step in the right direction because how many people have thought "my ninjette requires too much lever effort to get UBERBRAKES like I want" and then upped to a larger aftermarket rotor and caliper bracket? A few now. Coming from MTB background where it's very normal for riders to play with rotor size and there are industry standards for caliper mounts and rotor sizes, allowing each rider can get the right feel and force at the lever, I find it funny that doing the same on your motorcycle is so difficult and expensive. The right feel and force at the lever can make any rider better through being more comfortable, without going crazy on higher priced calipers/masters. I know my issue is hand strength required on my lever. The pregen has a smaller rotor than the newgen, it requires strong hands that I don't have. I can't squeeze that thing hard enough to brake like I want without going hulk on it and riding stiff on the bars. Another 10-20mm on the rotor diameter and I would be much more relaxed while braking at pace.

[Ninjette Newsbot]

The lightweight end of the supersport market has been enjoying some serious attention from manufacturers and riders in recent years, and with Yamaha’s unveiling of their YZF-R3 we’re another step closer to recapturing the era when 400cc supersports bikes defined a generation of new riders. Boasting an entirely reasonable 41bhp and 21.8lbft from its 321cc liquid-cooled parallel-twin motor, the new ...

Click here for full story...

[fast1075]

Saturday, I went to the AIM Expo in Orlando, and looked at, groped, and sat on the new R3. I am impressed. Great ergos, great fit and finish. And the 41mm fork tubes make all the other 250's and 300's look like toothpicks.

They are coming "first of the year". I will certainly be in line for a test ride. May be my first bike from the tuning fork guys since my old RD400.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by fast1075

And the 41mm fork tubes make all the other 250's and 300's look like toothpicks.

I keep harping on that, but that is the probably the biggest stat line that caught my attention as well. Shows they were at least a little serious about it being ridden hard.

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

I keep harping on that, but that is the probably the biggest stat line that caught my attention as well. Shows they were at least a little serious about it being ridden hard.

So what impact will bigger fork tubes have? A better ability to handle bumps at speed? Just better suspension overall?

[Alex]

More stability when the front end is subjected to higher forces. Bumps are part of it, but also how the bike feels when it is on its side in high-g, higher speed turns.

[xorbe]

Yamaha claim that the all-new 321cc inline twin cylinder 4-stroke DOHC 4-valve engine has been designed for solid low to mid-rpm performance, rather than a buzzy screaming top-end rush.

Suspect the R3 engine is capable of more hp? Probably gimped at the top end via ecu to stay A2-region legal.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by Alex

More stability when the front end is subjected to higher forces. Bumps are part of it, but also how the bike feels when it is on its side in high-g, higher speed turns.

Indeed. The little spindly 36/37mm forks of previous generation bikes tend to be like the frame - flexy and imprecise. Ideally the larger, stiffer, more robust fork tubes are designed for high loads, and then in turn the frame as well to support the larger forks.

It is at this point, conjecture; but could be a reasonable assumption.

[choneofakind]

Larger diameter forks and larger diameter brake rotor = win.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Fair enough, we'll have to see how it unfolds. I was kind of wondering how far the one-up-manship was going to go with adding displacement; too far and they've gotten into CBR500 territory and potentially beyond bikes that are rookie friendly, stupid proof machines like they're intended to be.

I think the displacement creep is soon over. I think the next way for small bikes to evolve is spec level and chassis design. I think we'll start seeing frames that are stiffer with more gusseting and bracing so they perform more like a stiff SS-style cradle frame without the costs associated with manufacturing. I like how Yami used a 298mm floating rotor on the R3. I think that's a step in the right direction because how many people have thought "my ninjette requires too much lever effort to get UBERBRAKES like I want" and then upped to a larger aftermarket rotor and caliper bracket? A few now. Coming from MTB background where it's very normal for riders to play with rotor size and there are industry standards for caliper mounts and rotor sizes, allowing each rider can get the right feel and force at the lever, I find it funny that doing the same on your motorcycle is so difficult and expensive. The right feel and force at the lever can make any rider better through being more comfortable, without going crazy on higher priced calipers/masters. I know my issue is hand strength required on my lever. The pregen has a smaller rotor than the newgen, it requires strong hands that I don't have. I can't squeeze that thing hard enough to brake like I want without going hulk on it and riding stiff on the bars. Another 10-20mm on the rotor diameter and I would be much more relaxed while braking at pace.

I have a similar braking problem on my 300
sketchy has aftermarket front rotor and calipers along with a much better brake feel, I'm actually more confident on the brakes on it than on the 300 as a result of this.

[silentIm]

The name of the game is performance at a price. Good to see more competition on small displacement motorcycle. That means not only more choices for beginner bikes in western countries, but also more choices of high quality bikes for us in emerging countries.

Just now TMCBlog posted a possibility a streetfighter version of yzf R25 dubbed MT-25. That means MT-3 is possible as well.

[silentIm]

Originally Posted by Klondike1020

I am thinking That new yammi is so nice for the price.

What is the deal with the direct drive cam .... ?>

That's marketing jargon saying buckets and shims driven by the camshaft pushing the valves, just like ninja 250. R25 still uses cam chain.

[Clacquam]

Sexy beast!! If it really is an r3 it might be what we were all waiting for!

[adouglas]

Really of interest only to track riders, but it is quite likely that a front-end swap will be possible. Bike manufacturers often recycle various parts to keep costs down; that's why it's easy to put a GSXR front end on an SV650.

I'd put money on the ability to install an R6 front end on this bike without major agita. Vastly better brakes and front suspension, done and done.

Short of that, with 41mm fork tubes you could go find an old CBR600F3 fork and slide the tubes right in.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Really of interest only to track riders, but it is quite likely that a front-end swap will be possible. Bike manufacturers often recycle various parts to keep costs down; that's why it's easy to put a GSXR front end on an SV650.

I'd put money on the ability to install an R6 front end on this bike without major agita. Vastly better brakes and front suspension, done and done.

Short of that, with 41mm fork tubes you could go find an old CBR600F3 fork and slide the tubes right in.

Yep potentially many of the "pre-USD" forked sport bikes have swap candidates, especially if you consider "guts" swaps. Most were 41mm conventional forks that were fully adjustable. Honda F3, YZF600R, early GSXRs,

[subxero]

since the bike comes with the larger forks stock, the stock frame is probably a little beefier as well which makes front end swaps even more appealing as the frame should be able to handle the addition stress a little better.

speaking for forks, lol you should see the ones on the old "R3" I just bought

I think they are 35mm practically toothpicks

[broken neck]

FYI,

just saw the prices for the YZF-R3 in Canada...

4,999$ for the black model and 5,099$ for the blue or red ones.

That would go up against the Ninja 300...

5,399$ for the base version and 5,599$ for the special edition.

Looks like the Yamaha as another edge on Kawasaki.

All prices are in CND$ and it's the MSRP on their website.

[xorbe]

The Ninja 250 was only USD$2999 in 2007, now $4999 for 300 non-ABS. The prices have risen too quickly. Slightly longer stroke, slipper clutch, REMOVAL of complicated carb setup, fuel injector ... $2000.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by xorbe

The Ninja 250 was only USD$2999 in 2007, now $4999 for 300 non-ABS. The prices have risen too quickly. Slightly longer stroke, slipper clutch, REMOVAL of complicated carb setup, fuel injector ... $2000.

Not quite that bad, but the real price has gone up.

The effects of inflation are often neglected.

$2999 in 2007 dollars is $3443 in 2014 dollars. So the REAL difference is more like $1500.

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

Same thing happens all the time with gasoline. Gas prices first passed $1 a gallon in 1979. Using the inflation calculator, that's $3.28 in 2014 dollars.

According to the AAA Daily Fuel Gauge Report, as of today the average price nationwide is $3.08

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Same thing happens all the time with gasoline. Gas prices first passed $1 a gallon in 1979. Using the inflation calculator, that's $3.28 in 2014 dollars

damn, so when accounting for inflation I'm paying less for gas than the folks in 1979. You just made me feel a lot better about gas prices

now if only apartments with secure parking were cheaper :/ too paranoid about my bike getting vandalized/stolen to live in an apartment without secure parking


also, after inflation, the Ninja 300 is definitely $1500+ better than the newgen 250 in terms of the package that you get. It's infinitely better than the pregen too, unless you switch out the pregen suspension/swingarm/forks and run equal tires with equal suspension but that's a good deal of work and it still doesn't quite match up

[DCMoney]

Wont be buying one, I want a small displacement race bike not a small displacement economy/"beginner" bike.

In other words this....

[indomie]

yeah! cant wait for those to come out.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by DCMoney

Wont be buying one, I want a small displacement race bike not a small displacement economy/"beginner" bike.

In other words this....

You can't buy an ADAC bike, so you're really talking about the RC390.

Take a close look at the specs on the new Yami. It's not that different from the RC390 in power or spec level out of the box. Unmodified, neither one are actually race bikes.

You're going to be swapping stuff out anyway to make a race/track bike, and once you start down that path the line between "small displacement economy/beginner bike" and "small displacement race bike" begins to blur.

Ask @csmith12 whether an "economy/beginner" bike like the Ninjette can be considered a small displacement "race bike" or not.

I think the RC390 is very, very cool. But the Yamaha, being a Yamaha, promises to have much better aftermarket support to turn it into true race bike.

[csmith12]

Mr. Fist, If memory serves me correctly, Andrew (DCMoney) and I have raced 250's together. ijs

As much as I want the lil yammi, I am waiting to see what the race orgs do. I just don't see how the 390 and the 250 are gunna be scored the same. And if not scored the same, then getting enough racers on the grid will be the next issue.

I do like the small market competition that is going on now but leaves me scratching my head.

[adouglas]

Agreed. But the Yami and RC are pretty close power wise. The future is in bikes over 300cc now that the 250s aren't made anymore. So race orgs will, as always, suffer through the transition before phasing out the 250 class.

Yami makes its power higher up and has a higher redline, while the thumper in the KTM makes more torque down low.

Will be interesting to see what happens once people start tweaking them.

[subxero]

Seems like the Yamaha is gonna be a great starting platform. Now sure what the rc390 is going to have as MSRP let alone sticker price but if one bought an R3 they could easily put the left over cash towards some really nice upgrades.

As much as I like the rc390 on paper it might be hard to pass on the Yamy

[Alex]

Originally Posted by adouglas

You can't buy an ADAC bike, so you're really talking about the RC390.

That's the thing, KTM is planning to sell a race version of the RC390 to anyone who wants one, at a premium of about 1000 euros. It comes with better suspension, better brakes, track bodywork, and is ready to go. You also get all of the street stuff to put on if you want to use it in the off season. The question is whether they will offer it for sale in the US as well that way, and at what price.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...390-cup-intro/
http://www.sportrider.com/sportbikes...390-first-look

[DCMoney]

Originally Posted by adouglas

You can't buy an ADAC bike, so you're really talking about the RC390.

Take a close look at the specs on the new Yami. It's not that different from the RC390 in power or spec level out of the box. Unmodified, neither one are actually race bikes.

You're going to be swapping stuff out anyway to make a race/track bike, and once you start down that path the line between "small displacement economy/beginner bike" and "small displacement race bike" begins to blur.

Ask @csmith12 whether an "economy/beginner" bike like the Ninjette can be considered a small displacement "race bike" or not.

I think the RC390 is very, very cool. But the Yamaha, being a Yamaha, promises to have much better aftermarket support to turn it into true race bike.

Ok you got me, yes the just normal RC390.

Your looking at power figure, I'm looking at the overall package...

So lets look at what really matters. Frame geometry, suspension, brakes and weight. All factors that the KTM beats the Yamaha in.

For your convience here are links to both.

RC390 Specs

R3 Specs - .eu so you don't have to convert inch to mm

I have no doubt the R3 will be a fun bike to race. But its not a purpose built race bike.

Dont kid yourself, the 250s were never meant to be riding like some of us do. It's an evolutionary process and as more people realize 200+ HP isn't really needed to have a good time we will see more small displacement race orientated bike being produced.

Yamaha is following Kawasaki and Honda's recent found success in building an affordable good looking beginner bike.

This is all coming from someone that consistently finishes on the podium on one of his 250 "race" bikes...