April 28th, 2014, 12:29 PM | #1 |
wat
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tire tread direction
i was just talking to a mechanic about tires and he told me something interesting.
he said that the direction of a tire doesn't matter if it is dry. the direction is purely for the tread pattern-- ON WATER. so that it pumps the water out to the side instead of toward the center if its going backwards. he said, if you are in the dry, tread pattern -- including the internal ply pattern -- does not matter. it only matters in the wet he said. i had always heard (without real reason) that you can't have them backwards because it would rip the plys apart or some ****. he said that was BS. so now i'm curious. was he full of ****?
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April 28th, 2014, 12:31 PM | #2 |
The Corner Whisperer
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No, I have run them in both directions for years.
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April 28th, 2014, 12:41 PM | #3 |
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I would agree on the tread pattern re: dry vs. wet. If it's not pumping water, it's not doing much.
But the front tires are designed for strong braking forces, while the rear tires are designed for strong acceleration forces. On a bike like ours, it's not going to matter much in almost all conditions (not braking from 150+, accelerating with < 35hp). But on a superbike, braking at max capability from high speeds, or accelerating with 150+ hp to the rear wheel, the forces are great enough to abuse a tire not made for it. Some slicks are specifically made to allow for flipping, others aren't. I don't think it's black and white enough to state that it will always be OK and not to worry about it. For some tires on some bikes, it could really be a problem.
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April 28th, 2014, 01:04 PM | #4 |
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The thread pattern is the main thing, in therms of internals I presume Radials would hold up better to flipping than bias ply, whose layering may be designed to work better in one direction than the other.
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April 28th, 2014, 01:17 PM | #5 | |
wat
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Quote:
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April 28th, 2014, 01:47 PM | #6 |
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I'd have to search, but the most recent is all of the pirelli tire failures in F1 last year when teams mounted them opposite to how Pirelli required. (one link). That evidently had to do with the sidewalls being different on the inside and outside, so not directly applicable to m/c tires, but I'll see if I can find some failures there as well. I'd agree with @Whiskey, perhaps radial construction is somewhat less prone to these issues than bias-ply, but I wouldn't think they would be immune. Radials don't run the plies exactly 90 degrees from the rotation; they are still biased a bit depending on the construction.
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April 28th, 2014, 01:51 PM | #7 |
The Corner Whisperer
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For me, it's a per set of tires judgement call. Knowing the history of the tire and previous feel goes a long way. Also, where I am riding on them plays a large role too. I am more prone to flip them at the track.
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April 28th, 2014, 02:03 PM | #8 |
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Some links:
gixxer! (someone talks about a tire peeling on track) :http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthr...03&postcount=4 Here's what Avon has to say about it: http://www.avonmoto.com/download/Tires_101.pdf
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April 28th, 2014, 02:37 PM | #9 |
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I decided to call Pirelli Tech support since I couldn't find a number for Bridgestone. He said you can but it's not recommended as the tire could peel away due to the directional weaving of the plies. I asked if he could find some literature to back up his statement and he said he'll email it to me when he does.
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April 28th, 2014, 02:40 PM | #10 |
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On the Superbikes we would flip the UK made Dunlops all the time, both the dot and slick compounds with no problems now the US made Dunlops are a whole different story. I believe I've seen pics of US made Dunlops splitting at the segment seems on the rear tire but it could have just been a fluke because it seemed to me that tire would have separated in ether direction. I had a policy to never touch a US made tire after several very close calls and one bad crash. I recently tried to save $30 and go with a US tire(that's all you get in the US these days) and the thing cold cracked right down to the cords so again I'm steering clear of US Dunlops.
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April 28th, 2014, 02:47 PM | #11 | |
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Quote:
When I came back from Jennings, a few of my fellow track ho's (5 riders to be exact) where on US dunlops. They cracked down to the cords like ice cubes in hot water, just like you said. It wasn't pretty at all... I can dig up pics if ya need. I gave Ally warning but interestingly enough, one of those 5 riders were running their tires backward. They ran all weekend just fine in I(B) group, it wasn't until they got back to OH, in the cold weather that the cracking became a major (show stopper/new tires) issue. This is interesting stuff. Mostly new to me as well.
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April 28th, 2014, 02:58 PM | #13 |
The Corner Whisperer
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Good question Alex.
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April 28th, 2014, 03:03 PM | #14 |
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100 miles on the street and one session on Laguna Seca. I was lucky Pirelli was there to save my ass with a good used takeoff for $40 which was awesome on track and continues to be so on the street.
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April 28th, 2014, 03:05 PM | #15 |
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I've been saying it for 10 years and will continue to even now. USA made Dunlops are crap.
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April 28th, 2014, 03:07 PM | #17 |
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Oh in case your wondering about the Rosso rear for our bikes. I was told most the races flip the Rosso with no problems and I did two days the correct and two days flipped and the tires looks great. Is still currently backwards and it'll stay the way till its dead.
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April 28th, 2014, 03:10 PM | #18 |
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That's basically what I said as I was brushing off the gravel to put my warmer back on and saw the horizontal crack. Then after looking harder it was look holy **** it keeps going, and damn are those the white cords I can see at the bottom
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April 28th, 2014, 03:12 PM | #19 |
wat
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you didn't notice anything different when you were riding on that massive crack though? that's the part that seems scary to me.
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April 28th, 2014, 03:16 PM | #20 |
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April 28th, 2014, 03:19 PM | #22 |
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The good thing about running Warmers is after every session you need to wipe the gravel off the tire before wrapping them. This makes it easy to spot any issue ASAP.
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April 28th, 2014, 03:21 PM | #23 |
wat
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i think i'll start only buying bridgestones now... and i think i'll start running tire warmers...
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April 28th, 2014, 03:28 PM | #24 |
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It's been well documented that they've been crap for years, but supposedly things have changed recently. The same machines they were using in the UK are now up and running in the US, so theoretically the tires should be of similar quality. Hard to say for sure, but it will certanily take people quite awhile to come around based on past experiences.
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April 28th, 2014, 04:43 PM | #25 | |
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Quote:
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April 28th, 2014, 10:55 PM | #26 |
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Pfft Dunlops. Pirellis all day every day.
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April 29th, 2014, 04:57 AM | #27 |
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