June 19th, 2014, 01:51 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Will
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Weird noise when shifting to first gear
I bought a 2012 ninja with 3k miles last week, dirty carbs had me busy all weekend. So the bike runs great after cleaning it and i begin to practice on 1 lane roads around my neighborhood. After a few days im out of gas, so i decide I'm ready to fill it up. The bike has not done anything i considered weird to this point.
On the way back home a red light comes on and i pull the clutch, then shift from 4th, 3rd, 2nd, I'm still moving at a decent speed since I'm breaking slowly. As i try to shift to first gear, i hear a weird sound. Like if the chain was breaking (something was rattling and stopped me from shifting) , which kinda scared me. Eventually i slowed down enough and then it shifted fine. It happened again at another light, i couldn't shift to first while holding the clutch and moving quickly, until i was about to stop. Is this normal, or a cause for concern? or I'm i being a noob and not doing proper shifting? |
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June 19th, 2014, 02:02 PM | #2 |
The Corner Whisperer
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Sounds normal, just slow down a bit more before trying to downshift to 1st. It's really low geared.
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June 19th, 2014, 02:08 PM | #3 |
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Sounds like you didn't have it fully engaged into 1st.
Try not to go down into 1st gear until you are stopped. What is the idle speed when it's warm? Did you remove the caps on the idle mixture screws when you had the carbs off? |
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June 19th, 2014, 02:15 PM | #4 |
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ok ill just try to shift down at lower speeds. idle is ~12-14 it vibrates so i don't know the exact number, and i didn't touch anything besides the jets when cleaning the carbs. I'm fairly new to riding so i didn't want to tamper with more more than i had to.
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June 19th, 2014, 03:15 PM | #6 |
wat
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that means you need to sync your carbs
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June 19th, 2014, 03:21 PM | #7 |
The Corner Whisperer
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Yep, just had to do this on another kawi just the other day.
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June 19th, 2014, 03:25 PM | #8 |
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oh man, that sucks. Maybe in the future, id really hate to do carb work again soon. but I'll definitely look into it, and get it done when i have a chance.
Thanx for the help, I'm planning to do more road practice and i was well over 2 mph. So that's good to know. |
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June 19th, 2014, 03:29 PM | #9 |
The Corner Whisperer
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Don't make that 2mph a "hard" number to shift at, that is not what Alex means. In time, you will just "feel" when your going slow enough to downshift to first. In general though, it's about "walking - brisk walking" speed.
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June 19th, 2014, 05:12 PM | #10 |
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Thanx ill keep that in mind. I rode some more and it hasn't happened anymore. I slowed down quite a bit before fully down shifting.
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June 22nd, 2014, 04:08 AM | #11 |
Wannabe Reborn
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When slowing down and downshifting, its best to keep the bike in the gear that is representative of the speed you are traveling. If you're heading for a light and know you have to stop, downshift slowly, and wait till you hit the light at a full stop before you go to 1st.
I do this as I consider it a safety factor. If I'm slowing down, and keep the gear relative to the speed, and for whatever reason I have to bail out of the lane and quickly maneuver elsewhere, at least I'm in the correct gear so that I can do so quickly, without having to shift around to find the right gear. Things like this will come to you in time with riding. As you learn some more, stay away from other cars/riders. Get comfortable with yourself on the bike before you add in other people.
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June 22nd, 2014, 04:21 AM | #12 | |
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June 23rd, 2014, 08:11 AM | #13 |
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Cant you shift into first at anytime as long as you have the clutch fully disengaged? Why do you have to make sure you are going that slow?
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June 23rd, 2014, 08:28 AM | #14 | |
The Corner Whisperer
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For me, being in a gear that matches my speed is more than just a technique, it's a safety issue, it's a control issue, eliminates a lot of guesswork, generally makes riding less "rushed" & "busy" and the flow is more enjoyable. I will leave ya with 2 questions; What would happen if your going 45mph in 1st and dump the clutch (hand slip off or whatever)? Why do they say, "when in doubt, upshift"?
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June 23rd, 2014, 09:02 AM | #15 | |
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I typically don't like to drop into 1st until I'm almost stopped, but at a very low speed it's fine. You will feel a difference when you get into 1st while you are rolling as compared to when you downshift into other gears. |
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June 23rd, 2014, 09:19 AM | #16 | |
wat
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it is a 'feature' of the way the transmission works. it is what's sometimes called a "dog box" transmission. when you "put it in gear", you are sliding one gear INTO another gear, not onto. all the gears are always engaged on their faces but they slide into each other in order to engage. they have 3 teeth, or "dogs" that slide into paired "trenches" on the other gear. if the difference in speed is too great, instead of sliding in and engaging, they just skim along the surface making a great weedwacker grinding noise. doing this rounds the edge of the dog and the trench making it happen more and more. the gearbox needs to be at the right speed to engage correctly into the gear for that speed. even on a standard car-style syncro transmission, trying to stick it into first before you're at the right speed is just wearing out your syncro cups unnecessarily. worst case, you're going top speed in a car and try to use the syncro to get into first... you will overrev the first gear bearing and if you keep trying blow the bearing eventually
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June 23rd, 2014, 11:29 AM | #17 |
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http://ninja250.kingston.net/speed.html
Try this calculator, you will see 14,000 rpm is 37 mph in first If you managed to engage first at 50 dropping the clutch will spin the engine at 20,000 rpm which would blow it for sure |
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June 23rd, 2014, 11:57 AM | #18 |
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There's no possibility the clutch cable is poorly adjusted? Are you sure when the clutch lever is pulled in at the handlebar it is fully disengaging the clutch?
I ask because after some miles of ownership I found it hard to get into 1st where I hadn't before. It appears the clutch cable had stretched over time and I was no longer fully disengaging the clutch. Maybe you could check that with the engine off but in 1st you can't push the bike, then see whether it is as easy to push with the clutch fully in as it is in neutral? HTH, Pete |
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June 25th, 2014, 11:20 AM | #19 | |
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June 25th, 2014, 02:18 PM | #20 |
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shifting into first is a pain in the ass if you are above 10mph.
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June 25th, 2014, 03:05 PM | #21 |
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Normally you only engage first while stationary. and only go down the box as far as second (or even third) when coming to a stop.
As a beginner it is easy to assume that slowing to a stop is the simple reversal of pulling away up through all the gears but it isn't. Accelerating, the gears are about delivering the power within the engines upper and lower limits Decelerating, the gears multiply the engine braking more as you come down. The highest engine braking is in first when you in fact only need a gentle touch of brakes, the engine braking effect in first is total overkill and gives a very jerky and clumsy response. |
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June 25th, 2014, 03:38 PM | #22 | |
wat
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June 26th, 2014, 03:10 AM | #23 | |
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Cheers, Pete |
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June 26th, 2014, 11:22 PM | #24 | |
ninjette.org member
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Two new things showed up for me now. False neutrals, which i figured out today only happens in first gear if i past 6 or 7k rpm and let go of the throttle. fixes for me was ether keep the foot on the shift lever if staying in first, or shift up. And i learned that i really need to practice turning, i noticed i have no idea how far to down shift before turning if im in a high gear, trying to figure that out now. |
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June 26th, 2014, 11:26 PM | #25 | |
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June 27th, 2014, 06:36 AM | #26 | |
Rev Limiter
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I would check and lube all parts of the shift linkage and make sure it's moving freely. It's possible the shifter is not returning properly after shifting and causing these issues. |
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June 27th, 2014, 07:28 AM | #27 |
wat
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down shift one gear at a time while you are slowing down. do not pull the clutch in and go down multiple gears.
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June 27th, 2014, 07:38 AM | #28 | |
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June 27th, 2014, 10:59 AM | #29 | |||
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June 27th, 2014, 11:07 AM | #30 |
wat
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false neutral is caused by not going fully into the gear and so the dogs are only partially engaged when the shift linkage lets go and so it slips out into between two gears. this has nothing to do with the linkage not returning to home. it has to do with not fully depressing the shift pedal (which can be done for a variety of reasons) but basically if you just push the shift pedal and hold the shift pedal extended into the "new gear" position for a second or two, and then letting the shift pedal return to its normal position, it shouldn't happen. if you are wide open and shifting fast off/on the gas and you get back on the gas too fast it can also get stuck half way. solution is to not blip-off so fast for that.
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