Looking for opinion Intiminators

[daverdfw]

So I have been looking around at wether to do some RaceTech emulators or Ricor Intiminators. Anyone here have any feedback? I saw a few posts on here but they are a few years old. I already have new springs and preload adjusters in the front.

[choneofakind]

They both seem to work. There's more tuning experience with the emulators posted online.

[InvisiBill]

That's the impression I got too. Emulators still use a fixed-orifice damping system, with the spring-operated valve. The only tuning you can do is the rate and preload of the spring. Intiminators use a shim stack, so it's customizable by the thickness and number of shims (nearly infinitely). When you look at the details, Intiminators are actually much more of a "cartridge emulator" than emulators are.

I've only read of one person being unhappy with the Intiminators. It was a two person team sharing a bike, and he said there was a large difference in their weights. A number of track riders did say they used 7.5wt oil rather than the recommended 5wt to get slower rebound.

I think a lot of people aren't able to, or don't want to, take the time to figure out the best setup with the Intiminators. With emulators, they can get a good baseline from someone else, and turn the screw a bit to tweak it until they're happy. There isn't as much data about the Intiminators yet, so I think you're more on your own for figuring it out. The fact that Ricor bills them as a drop-in fix to all your suspension problems (and that they do work pretty well out of the box) doesn't help that.

If I were trying to tune my Intiminators to be perfect, here's what I'd do.

1. Drill out the damper rod holes. They say it's not "necessary" but it could still be having a little effect on your damping. Remove the stock damping system to ensure there's no weird conflict.
2. Play with the oil weight to find good rebound results. It's still using the stock fixed orifice setup for that, so oil weight is the only way to change it.
3. Play with the shim stack (and maybe oil weight) to find good compression results. Though you want the ideal oil weight for rebound, experimenting with different weights might lead you toward the best compression settings, or possibly give you a compromise where you lose a bit of rebound to make compression much better. I'm just thinking you don't want to lock your mind into changing only the shims, even though that's the ideal way to do it.
4. If I was still convinced that it wasn't perfect, I'd look into modding the Intiminators. People have enlarged/added holes to increase flow and alter the details of how they perform.
5. Go back through and make sure all the early settings are still spot-on after making later changes.

At this point though, I just dropped them in with no tuning, and I'm quite happy with how well they work on my street bike. I plan to drill out the damper rods when I have the forks apart for servicing, and I may play around with tweaking/modding them, but so far I've felt no need to.

I think of emulators and Intiminators as being quite similar to carbs and EFI. A lot of people have a lot of experience making carbs work well, but there's simply a physical limit to what you can tweak on them. EFI allows you a lot more adjustability, but it's more complex and not nearly as many people are familiar with it.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

I've only read of one person being unhappy with the Intiminators. It was a two person team sharing a bike, and he said there was a large difference in their weights. A number of track riders did say they used 7.5wt oil rather than the recommended 5wt to get slower rebound.

I think a lot of people aren't able to, or don't want to, take the time to figure out the best setup with the Intiminators. With emulators, they can get a good baseline from someone else, and turn the screw a bit to tweak it until they're happy. There isn't as much data about the Intiminators yet, so I think you're more on your own for figuring it out. The fact that Ricor bills them as a drop-in fix to all your suspension problems (and that they do work pretty well out of the box) doesn't help that.

If I were trying to tune my Intiminators to be perfect, here's what I'd do.[LIST=1][*]Drill out the damper rod holes. They say it's not "necessary" but it could still be having a little effect on your damping. Remove the stock damping system to ensure there's no weird conflict.[*]Play with the oil weight to find good rebound results. It's still using the stock fixed orifice setup for that, so oil weight is the only way to change it.[*]

I think of emulators and Intiminators as being quite similar to carbs and EFI. A lot of people have a lot of experience making carbs work well, but there's simply a physical limit to what you can tweak on them. EFI allows you a lot more adjustability, but it's more complex and not nearly as many people are familiar with it.

We just ran an endurance a couple of weekends ago with emulators and springs. We had three riders and about a 50 lb weight difference between the lightest and heaviest guy. Our pace was way faster than the other teams and none of our guys had a complaint in regard to the front end. The only thing I really did was to custom mix for my target viscosity using Redline fork oil. Knowing that actual viscosities can vary wildly from what is printed on the label, I took an average viscosity in centistokes of all of the 15wt oils that had info on. Then I mixed viscosities of Redline fork oil to mix my oil to that average. It worked pretty good, although I did wind up adding a little of a heavier viscosity redline oil to what I had in the forks in order to raise the oil level a little bit. I've heard and seen enough reports of people, with some liking 15wt oil and some preferring 20wt oil that I didn't want to gamble on getting a brand that was way off.

So, yes, you can get good results with emulators as well as Intiminators. Are Intiminators better than emulators? It's possible if you tune them right. Are cartridges better than Intiminators? It's possible if you tune them right. Having said that, well-tuned emulators will be a lot better than poorly tuned Intiminators or cartridges.

I started to go down the road of cartridges with my racebike and I decided to wait till I saw the results with emulators. I have good enough results with the emulators that I don't see the need for something better for now. Part of this is the 250 Ninja itself. It is a flexible chassis that is not very sensitive to setup and allows greater lattitude for an effective setup.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by tgold

We just ran an endurance a couple of weekends ago with emulators and springs. We had three riders and about a 50 lb weight difference between the lightest and heaviest guy. Our pace was way faster than the other teams and none of our guys had a complaint in regard to the front end. The only thing I really did was to custom mix for my target viscosity using Redline fork oil. Knowing that actual viscosities can vary wildly from what is printed on the label, I took an average viscosity in centistokes of all of the 15wt oils that had info on. Then I mixed viscosities of Redline fork oil to mix my oil to that average. It worked pretty good, although I did wind up adding a little of a heavier viscosity redline oil to what I had in the forks in order to raise the oil level a little bit. I've heard and seen enough reports of people, with some liking 15wt oil and some preferring 20wt oil that I didn't want to gamble on getting a brand that was way off.

So, yes, you can get good results with emulators as well as Intiminators. Are Intiminators better than emulators? It's possible if you tune them right. Are cartridges better than Intiminators? It's possible if you tune them right. Having said that, well-tuned emulators will be a lot better than poorly tuned Intiminators or cartridges.

I started to go down the road of cartridges with my racebike and I decided to wait till I saw the results with emulators. I have good enough results with the emulators that I don't see the need for something better for now. Part of this is the 250 Ninja itself. It is a flexible chassis that is not very sensitive to setup and allows greater lattitude for an effective setup.

so spears racing sells "customized" intiminators just for the 250. They say its a basically a race version. I am pretty heavy, 220lb so I have .90 springs and running 20wt oil. Just curious what settings or tweaks do you do on the emulators ?

[csmith12]

Emulators + 10w oil here but crashed 3 times via a tucked front at near lap record pace each time. Otherwise, I have a great track day setup but please note that my best skill is entry while hard on the brakes. I am 175lbs+ gear and run the same springs as you.

[verboten1]

I run the intiminators in my KLR. they really changed the way the whole bike operates

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Emulators + 10w oil here but crashed 3 times via a tucked front at near lap record pace each time. Otherwise, I have a great track day setup but please note that my best skill is entry while hard on the brakes. I am 175lbs+ gear and run the same springs as you.

Emulators are much more affordable only $115, I wonder if I should keep with 20wt oil or try 15wt if I go emulators.

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

Emulators are much more affordable only $115, I wonder if I should keep with 20wt oil or try 15wt if I go emulators.

With emulators, the oil weight controls your rebound dampening. IMO, if it's working OK now, stick with what you have and make a change if needed after the emulators are installed.

[csmith12]

I would start with 15w and go from there, but 20w is ok too. Since you already have the caps, it's easy to change with a large syringe w/ tube.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I would start with 15w and go from there, but 20w is ok too. Since you already have the caps, it's easy to change with a large syringe w/ tube.

yeah I have the motion pro oil tool. But I gotta drain it anyway in order to get to the damper rods in order to drill the holes. Do you just just drill out the existing hole and add more holes?

I assume I can keep the same oil height? Just cut my preload spacers to accommodate for thickness of the GVE ?

also curious what oil level you guys are running, I am at 140mm on my tool. looks like RT recommends 130mm when using GVE.

[csmith12]

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Install...rs_and_springs Should help with the hole drillin'.

I would have to get my little black book to get you the oil measure, but I don't have it with me right now.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by csmith12

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Install...rs_and_springs Should help with the hole drillin'.

I would have to get my little black book to get you the oil measure, but I don't have it with me right now.

thanks right after I typed the reply I found the wiki, would be curious what oil level you guys run though just out of curiosity.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

so spears racing sells "customized" intiminators just for the 250. They say its a basically a race version. I am pretty heavy, 220lb so I have .90 springs and running 20wt oil. Just curious what settings or tweaks do you do on the emulators ?

I just set the emulator spring compression the same on both sides and put in my custom blended oil. I put in .80 springs. Our biggest rider is just under 220 lb, but the bike weight is a lot lighter than most 250 Ninjas at right around 290lbs.

Peter Verdone has a ton of good information and the chart he put together is what I used to custom mix my oil. Here's a link to the oil info:

http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/ind...spension_Fluid

If you look at the oil viscosity chart, it will clearly show you why you don't want to switch back and forth between oil brands.

He even put together a handy mixing chart.

http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/ima..._Mix_Chart.pdf

Although I have gotten good results this way, I will say a couple of things: So far, I haven't had to push the front to the point that I am getting chatter although I have had it slide once or twice. It seems that Chris (csmith12) may be taxing the front a bit more than me. I would say that my style is a little less aggressive on the brakes with an emphasis on carrying as much corner speed as possible with more "classic" lines, so keep in mind that different riding styles may requre different setups.

Also, I can't say enough about the excellent service and advice that Gregg Spears has to offer. He helped me tremendously when I was building a big bore SV650 motor. I don't think he'll steer you wrong. No pun intended

One last piece of advice when tuning your suspension: Only change ONE THING AT A TIME. Whether it's ride height, oil viscosity, oil height, preload, etc. That way you know for sure how the change affected your bike. If you make more than one change at a time it's much harder to know what to do if you don't get the result that you want.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by tgold

I just set the emulator spring compression the same on both sides and put in my custom blended oil. I put in .80 springs. Our biggest rider is just under 220 lb, but the bike weight is a lot lighter than most 250 Ninjas at right around 290lbs.

Peter Verdone has a ton of good information and the chart he put together is what I used to custom mix my oil. Here's a link to the oil info:

http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/ind...spension_Fluid

If you look at the oil viscosity chart, it will clearly show you why you don't want to switch back and forth between oil brands.

He even put together a handy mixing chart.

http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/ima..._Mix_Chart.pdf

Although I have gotten good results this way, I will say a couple of things: So far, I haven't had to push the front to the point that I am getting chatter although I have had it slide once or twice. It seems that Chris (csmith12) may be taxing the front a bit more than me. I would say that my style is a little less aggressive on the brakes with an emphasis on carrying as much corner speed as possible with more "classic" lines, so keep in mind that different riding styles may requre different setups.

Also, I can't say enough about the excellent service and advice that Gregg Spears has to offer. He helped me tremendously when I was building a big bore SV650 motor. I don't think he'll steer you wrong. No pun intended

One last piece of advice when tuning your suspension: Only change ONE THING AT A TIME. Whether it's ride height, oil viscosity, oil height, preload, etc. That way you know for sure how the change affected your bike. If you make more than one change at a time it's much harder to know what to do if you don't get the result that you want.

I am on 1 brand of oil, Bel-rey currently. I might get some 15wt on hand just to have it if I wanna switch to it. I have the emulators ordered, have a track day in 1.5 weeks. Looking forward to seeing the difference.

[daverdfw]

emailed RT gave them weight info on me and bike they recommended going with

Blue spring, 3 turns, 140mm oil level and 15wt oil

[tgold]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

emailed RT gave them weight info on me and bike they recommended going with

Blue spring, 3 turns, 140mm oil level and 15wt oil

I can't remember if Racetech tells you to measure the oil level with the emulators in or out, but you definitely want to check the level with the springs out and the fork tubes fully compressed.

Here's a Motion Pro tool that makes getting the oil level right a lot easier:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...oil-level-tool

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by tgold

I can't remember if Racetech tells you to measure the oil level with the emulators in or out, but you definitely want to check the level with the springs out and the fork tubes fully compressed.

Here's a Motion Pro tool that makes getting the oil level right a lot easier:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...oil-level-tool

thats the tool I have. I believe you measure the oil with the emulator inside from what I read.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by tgold

So, yes, you can get good results with emulators as well as Intiminators. Are Intiminators better than emulators? It's possible if you tune them right. Are cartridges better than Intiminators? It's possible if you tune them right. Having said that, well-tuned emulators will be a lot better than poorly tuned Intiminators or cartridges.

This. Something "good" with a great setup will give better results than "the best" product with a poor setup.

The good news is that the Intiminators seem to come set up pretty well. A lot of people seem to do exactly what the instructions say and just drop them in with new oil. An SV650 guy said he had a hard time telling them apart from his $1100 cartridge forks.

Originally Posted by daverdfw

so spears racing sells "customized" intiminators just for the 250. They say its a basically a race version.

I think this is just a different set of shims that it comes with, but I haven't actually seen any detail on exactly how they're customized. I realize they don't want to just give away their expertise, but it would be nice if a potential customer could get some idea what they're paying for.

Originally Posted by daverdfw

Emulators are much more affordable only $115

Looks like PSS/Amazon has them for a little cheaper than everyone else. When I got mine, they were going for over $130. I sold mine (BNIB, to fund the Intiminator purchase) for $130 shipped and they were gone in a few days. To me, the extra $50 was worth it for what I consider better technology. Compared to $115, it's more than 50% extra (a decent chunk of cash), but I think it's still a relatively small amount in the grand scheme of owning and modding a bike. It's an order of magnitude smaller than the price difference going to cartridge inserts.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by tgold

Here's a Motion Pro tool that makes getting the oil level right a lot easier:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...oil-level-tool

The ghetto version of this is just to get a kitchen baster and draw lines on it with a ruler. Not quite as precise, but easier to find and a fraction of the price.

[choneofakind]

^^^ I used a spray head for an old bottle of simple green. I measured the straw to a place that was reliable and repeatable, then used the head to squirt all excess oil out to that point.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

^^^ I used a spray head for an old bottle of simple green. I measured the straw to a place that was reliable and repeatable, then used the head to squirt all excess oil out to that point.

Cool idea!

[Dave Wolfe]

I found out theres another option (for the 300 at least) with the Mupo Hydraulic Kit. It seems to be a shim stack, a la intiminator, but without the inertia valve. Googling didnt seem to turn up anyone having tried one on a ninjette.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

The ghetto version of this is just to get a kitchen baster and draw lines on it with a ruler. Not quite as precise, but easier to find and a fraction of the price.

That was my syringe and the tube was some old tubing I had laying around the garage. The wife has not happy with me taking kitchen items to the garage.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by Dave Wolfe

I found out theres another option (for the 300 at least) with the Mupo Hydraulic Kit. It seems to be a shim stack, a la intiminator, but without the inertia valve. Googling didnt seem to turn up anyone having tried one on a ninjette.

http://www.mupo.it/product/8/0/52/hydraulic-kit is the product page for those. http://www.motospecialties.com/store...mNum=K02KAW039 has them for $181 shipped to the US. They use a shim stack for rebound too.

My understanding is that the Intiminator inertia valve is aimed at compensating for big bumps, so trading that for the Mupo's better rebound setup is probably a good deal on a track bike. It may or may not work out better overall on a street bike.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by csmith12

The wife has not happy with me taking kitchen items to the garage.

Flip the situation though;

I bet you wouldn't be happy if Mrs csmith12 was bringing things from the garage to the kitchen! wait. We're dudes... that would totally work.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Flip the situation though;

I bet you wouldn't be happy if Mrs csmith12 was bringing things from the garage to the kitchen! wait. We're dudes... that would totally work.

I wonder what my wife would do with my air compressor in the kitchen?

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by tgold

I can't remember if Racetech tells you to measure the oil level with the emulators in or out, but you definitely want to check the level with the springs out and the fork tubes fully compressed.

Here's a Motion Pro tool that makes getting the oil level right a lot easier:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...oil-level-tool

this is in a PDF I found


7 Install the fork fluid. First remove the fork spring and use the oil viscosity recommended in racetech.com. Bleed the fork by pumping them. Install the Emulator and then set the oil level with the forks completely bottomed and the springs out.

[daverdfw]

When you guys are installing the springs on the emulators, so you just get them to where they aren't loose? and then count the turns from there? for example, RT told me 3 turns on the blue springs. So I swapped the blue spring , and then i tightened the nut down just so it was snug and then counted 3 full turns.

[Z1R rider]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

My understanding is that the Intiminator inertia valve is aimed at compensating for big bumps, so trading that for the Mupo's better rebound setup is probably a good deal on a track bike. It may or may not work out better overall on a street bike.

According to the Ricor site, http://store.ricorshocks.com/ias_technology_s/19.htm, the inertia valve is to change the valving circuit in response to chassis movement or wheel movement:
From their site;
In a sense, RICOR has managed to put two different shocks with completely different characteristics into one package. The primary circuit is tuned to control chassis motion and the secondary circuit is tuned to control wheel motion. RICOR's Inertia Active Suspension is able to recognize the difference between these two types of input and select the appropriate response instantaneously and automatically. As a result, RICOR shocks are able to provide the optimum response to chassis motion AND wheel motion without any of the compromises typically associated with traditional shock absorbers.
I'm guessing that they are trying to slow front end dive on the brakes.
Having ridden 250s with each you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between them when installed per instructions. The Intiminators install easier but would be more difficult to remove for tuning as they push in hard and parts don't seem to be readily available. The Emulators are more work to install because of the drilling required in the damping rod, but are easy to remove for tuning (comes with 2 different springs and you can vary the preload of them), only takes a magnet or a parts retriever claw, as they slide in and out easily. I and #1 son like the bike with the tuned Emulators better but it may be the tires as much as the forks. (one has S-20 Evo's and the one that we like better has RS-10's)

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Z1R rider

According to the Ricor site, http://store.ricorshocks.com/ias_technology_s/19.htm, the inertia valve is to change the valving circuit in response to chassis movement or wheel movement:
From their site;
In a sense, RICOR has managed to put two different shocks with completely different characteristics into one package. The primary circuit is tuned to control chassis motion and the secondary circuit is tuned to control wheel motion. RICOR's Inertia Active Suspension is able to recognize the difference between these two types of input and select the appropriate response instantaneously and automatically. As a result, RICOR shocks are able to provide the optimum response to chassis motion AND wheel motion without any of the compromises typically associated with traditional shock absorbers.
I'm guessing that they are trying to slow front end dive on the brakes.
Having ridden 250s with each you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between them when installed per instructions. The Intiminators install easier but would be more difficult to remove for tuning as they push in hard and parts don't seem to be readily available. The Emulators are more work to install because of the drilling required in the damping rod, but are easy to remove for tuning (comes with 2 different springs and you can vary the preload of them), only takes a magnet or a parts retriever claw, as they slide in and out easily. I and #1 son like the bike with the tuned Emulators a little better but it may be the tires as much as the forks. (one has S-20 Evo's and the one that we like better has RS-10's)

when you install the small springs , so you just snug it tight, then do the turns of preload?

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by Z1R rider

According to the Ricor site, http://store.ricorshocks.com/ias_technology_s/19.htm, the inertia valve is to change the valving circuit in response to chassis movement or wheel movement:
From their site;
In a sense, RICOR has managed to put two different shocks with completely different characteristics into one package. The primary circuit is tuned to control chassis motion and the secondary circuit is tuned to control wheel motion. RICOR's Inertia Active Suspension is able to recognize the difference between these two types of input and select the appropriate response instantaneously and automatically. As a result, RICOR shocks are able to provide the optimum response to chassis motion AND wheel motion without any of the compromises typically associated with traditional shock absorbers.
I'm guessing that they are trying to slow front end dive on the brakes.

Yeah, the inertia valve is designed to only open when the lower fork moves up (the inertia of the valve collar keeps it in the same position, while the lower fork pushes the center up, opening the valve). When the chassis pushes down on the wheel, the whole unit is pushed down, and the valve doesn't open. You can set it up so the shim stack is fairly firm for performance, then the inertia valve covers bumps where the regular compression damping would be too stiff, for comfort. (I also have the Edelbrock IAS shocks with Ricor's tech in my Syclone.)

I assume that big bumps are much less of an issue on a track, so the shim-stack rebound control of the Mupo might be more useful. On the street where you don't need super-precise rebound control as much, the Ricor valve might be really nice for rough roads.

Originally Posted by Z1R rider

Having ridden 250s with each you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between them when installed per instructions. The Intiminators install easier but would be more difficult to remove for tuning as they push in hard and parts don't seem to be readily available. The Emulators are more work to install because of the drilling required in the damping rod, but are easy to remove for tuning (comes with 2 different springs and you can vary the preload of them), only takes a magnet or a parts retriever claw, as they slide in and out easily.

I pulled my Intiminators out with a telescoping magnet without any issue ("39mm" Intiminators in my Gen2 EX500's 37mm forks, like the NewGen). chone did say it was a pretty tight fit in his PreGen with 36mm forks.

Originally Posted by Z1R rider

I and #1 son like the bike with the tuned Emulators a little better but it may be the tires as much as the forks. (one has S-20 Evo's and the one that we like better has RS-10's)

Did you do any tweaking of the Intiminators, or just drop them in? Emulators inherently require a bit of setup (even if it's just accepting RT/forum suggested settings), whereas the Intiminators in retail form aren't even really tunable (you need their disassembly tool and alternate shims, or other custom mods). I'd love to see people experiment with the Intiminators to the point where there are default suggestions available similar to the emulators - "Take out the two X shims and put in a Y and a Z in their place."

I would've liked to install the emulators for comparison, but I didn't want to deal with the extra work and taking the hit when selling them (vs. BNIB), so I just went directly to the Intiminators instead.

[Z1R rider]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

when you install the small springs , so you just snug it tight, then do the turns of preload?

Not even snug, just making contact then the adjustment turns. I'm running 3 turns on the yellow spring using Bel-Ray 20w oil.

[Z1R rider]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

I pulled my Intiminators out with a telescoping magnet without any issue ("39mm" Intiminators in my Gen2 EX500's 37mm forks, like the NewGen). chone did say it was a pretty tight fit in his PreGen with 36mm forks.




Did you do any tweaking of the Intiminators, or just drop them in? Emulators inherently require a bit of setup (even if it's just accepting RT/forum suggested settings), whereas the Intiminators in retail form aren't even really tunable (you need their disassembly tool and alternate shims, or other custom mods). I'd love to see people experiment with the Intiminators to the point where there are default suggestions available similar to the emulators - "Take out the two X shims and put in a Y and a Z in their place."

I would've liked to install the emulators for comparison, but I didn't want to deal with the extra work and taking the hit when selling them (vs. BNIB), so I just went directly to the Intiminators instead.

#1 son has the Intiminators in his Pre-Gen and said they pushed in hard, and would probably require some dismantling to get them out again. He took them out of the package and into the forks (with new 5w). I started with the blue springs on the Emulators at 3 turns, then blue at 3.5 turns, then blues at 4 turns, and now have the yellows at 3 turns, again, all with the Bel-Ray 20w. I may play with them some more next time at the track but I'm quite happy with them in the last configuration.

I think most like the Intiminators because they are much easier to install.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Z1R rider

#1 son has the Intiminators in his Pre-Gen and said they pushed in hard, and would probably require some dismantling to get them out again. He took them out of the package and into the forks (with new 5w). I started with the blue springs on the Emulators at 3 turns, then blue at 3.5 turns, then blues at 4 turns, and now have the yellows at 3 turns, again, all with the Bel-Ray 20w. I may play with them some more next time at the track but I'm quite happy with them in the last configuration.

I think most like the Intiminators because they are much easier to install.

I just finished my install today. RT suggest 15wt oil and blue spring with 3 turns. So I will give it shot. I was running 20wt before as I am a bit heavier 220lb with .90 springs. and 140mm oil height

[choneofakind]

Was tight. Added some stiction. Had to file the rings juuuuust a tad.

[daverdfw]

I am so confused about when to add more turns or when to use a yellow spring. what feeling are you guys getting when making this determination?

[Z1R rider]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

I am so confused about when to add more turns or when to use a yellow spring. what feeling are you guys getting when making this determination?

Don't spend a lot of time trying to find out what everybody else is doing, these things (front and rear if you've changed the shock) are adjustable and can be put back if you make an adjustment you don't like. Many of the differences in the adjustments are small and vary from one person's riding style to another...or one tire to another, or one track to another, or just a change in temp...or....or.... See what I mean, it's all pretty subjective. Start turning screws and find what works for YOU, there is no magic setting that works best for everyone or every situation.

ps: I find the yellow spring is plenty harsh on the street, liked the blues better off track

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

I am so confused about when to add more turns or when to use a yellow spring. what feeling are you guys getting when making this determination?

http://www.racetech.com/page/title/E...Tuning%20Guide

Valve Spring Preload -Overall firmness, controlling a mushy feel and the speed the front end dives under braking. 2 - 4 Turns initial setting is standard. 1 - 5 turns usable range

Valve Spring Rate - Overall firmness and the ride on square shaped bumps. Note that most 33-36mm vintage forks work better with the 40lb/in spring at 2-4 turns

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Z1R rider

Don't spend a lot of time trying to find out what everybody else is doing, these things (front and rear if you've changed the shock) are adjustable and can be put back if you make an adjustment you don't like. Many of the differences in the adjustments are small and vary from one person's riding style to another...or one tire to another, or one track to another, or just a change in temp...or....or.... See what I mean, it's all pretty subjective. Start turning screws and find what works for YOU, there is no magic setting that works best for everyone or every situation.

ps: I find the yellow spring is plenty harsh on the street, liked the blues better off track

Thanks for the advice, I guess I try to gather as much info as I can, sometimes too much. I should just try it and see what happens. I think also because this is a track only bike, I cant take it on the street and just try it out. So it gives me way to much time to keep thinking and doing research when I just gotta try something and see if it works. Then wait a month to try it again. Sounds like the yellows are what are good on the track though. Which puzzles me why RT would say use blues.