Taking corners at speed - What to do

[ajcadoo]

The one problem I am having while riding is taking corners. Specifically intersections. This happens a lot:

I want to turn right at an intersection and the light is green, so traffic is moving, and traffic is behind me. I am always slowing down A LOT (slower than I usually would in a car) so I can take the corner at a reasonable speed without losing control.

Sometimes when I am in the process of cornering, the bike feels unstable and it feels like it wants to slip out from under me. So I have been taking these corners nice and slow to prevent such an event from happening.

My problem is the fact that I sometimes hold up a lot of traffic behind me. I take the corner slower than the average car, but I am able to quickly acclerate back to speed.

What do you suggest for taking 90 degree corners, specifically right turns at intersections?

[CynicalC]

Have you taken the msf? Sounds like you are turning way too slow and that's why the bike is all wobbly. Might be a good idea to go practice in an open lot somewhere. How are your tires and tire pressure?

[outasight20]

Have you taken the MSF?

Here are some tips from personal experience.

-Look where you want to end up going, in this case look 90 degrees to the right
-Lean the bike by countersteering, but keep your arms as loose as possible on the bars. Let the bike turn itself, don't fight it. This applies 100% of the time when riding. Do not death grip the bars, especially in turns.
-Once you are in the turn, get back on the throttle and slowly roll it on as you exit.

-Most importantly, trust in your tires. They will not slip so long as you are not going insanely fast or hit a slippery surface.

It just takes practice...I know the feeling you are referring to when you say the bike feels like it is going to slip. It's ALL in your head, that you must understand to become a better rider.

Safe cornering

[ajcadoo]

Yes I have taken MSF. Although the course didnt effectively address that situation. Approaching an intersection doing 40MPH, 90 degree turn, then back up to 40MPH all in a somewhat quick manner.

These tips help a lot. I have had lots of instances on my bicycle where I have turned and the bike slipped right from under me due to loss of traction. I just feel as though the same thing will happen on the Ninja. So yeah, I dont trust my tires!

One other thing: I find that countersteering is only effective with slight turns, not 90 degree turns. I am probably just going too slow for countersteering to be effective and useful.

[outasight20]

Originally Posted by ajcadoo

One other thing: I find that countersteering is only effective with slight turns, not 90 degree turns.

Counter steering is the only way to turn a motorcycle at speed (even 10-15 mph) based on the laws of physics. If you figure out another way to do it, let us know!

Keeping a lose grip on the bars will improve your confidence tremendously. Next time you ride, try using only the tips of your fingers to steer. Notice how smoothly the bike responds.

[BlackNinja8]

Sounds like good advice from everyone. I would add as a caution that it is always better to enter a corner slower than your comfort level than faster. Just make sure you are not slowing abruptly and make sure you are using your brakes to slow rather than just compression/engine braking. That will reduce your chances of being rear ended.

From my experience which encompasses all of 220 miles of riding , it is best to take these turns at low speeds especially with cold tires, loose gravel, and sandy roadways like the ones up here in the northeast. Best of luck to you.

[alex.s]

you took MSF. you know how to turn. the biggest thing i can stress is simply dont worry about it. people behind you can see you. ride your own ride. dont feel the need to push yourself faster because you feel like you are slowing someone down. if they want to pass you, they can go ahead and pass. you'll get used to cornering with time. the biggest mistake new riders make, even after being told time and time and time again, is holding themselves up with the bars. putting so much weight on the bars or holding yourself with them disrupts the bikes natural ability to stabilize itself. when you are newer to riding you havent developed those muscles that hold you up with your legs very well. a good way to make sure you arent weighting the bars is a quick shake of your elbows. can you shake them freely? probably not putting weight on the bars. shaking my elbows looks goofy so as a sanity check for arms, i simply let go and have my hand hover around the bar. you obviously cant do that on the throttle now can you? so i use my finger tips on the throttle only. not gonna hold yourself up by fingertips are ya? ... well. maybe you will.

the best way i can describe it is... imagine you are sitting on a bar stool in the middle of a room with nothing around you. each foot on a foot rest on the stool. now reach forward and grab two paper lunch bags off a table 2 or 3 feet away from you. you arent putting weight on the lunch bags. all your weight is on the bar stool. the lunch bags are your handle bars. ... now theres this whole joke about "no sack lunch" in regard to throttle control, but i wont get into that here :P

anyway try reading some more about it. twist of the wrist is a great book.

[JeffM]

I'd bet that your are tensing up because of apprehension and you are looking right in front of the bike instead of down the road. Where are you looking and what is your body position while taking these corners? Are you leaning the bike or trying to keep it as upright as possible?

After you let off the brake(s) what do you do with the throttle? What gear are you in?

Remember, maintaining a little throttle while cornering stabilizes the bike. Be very smooth and deliberate when transitioning between being on the brakes and rolling on the throttle. Indecision and choppiness with the throttle during a turn will upset the bike.

Take your time and do not rush your learning and be safe.

Jeff

[massacremasses]

soon you will be taking corners as fast and leaning farther than you ever thought.

[outasight20]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

soon you will be taking corners as fast and leaning farther than you ever thought.

Wut he sed!

Take it easy at first but don't be afraid to go out of your comfort zone little by little. That's the only way to get better and gain confidence.

[alex.s]

being in socal gives you an amazing advantage. you get to hang out and learn from the amazing socal group. kevin can even teach you how to ollie a bike.

[ajcadoo]

Thank you for all the help you guys. It is probably just some beginning nerves and lack of experience that is getting the best of me. I have a feeling that I may not be looking through the turn a full 100%. I am not sure. Next time I am out riding I will try these tips and hopefully improve upon my skills!

[massacremasses]

yeah why dont you meet up with the socal guys?

[ajcadoo]

Ok, I am sure that my lean is probably pretty minimal. I am more in a swerve stance which is probably causing a lot of the issue.

[ajcadoo]

Originally Posted by trixter

The greater the angle the turn the more you must lean to stay in 1 lane. Start slow and work your way up to dragging your helmet on the ground

haha, btw, that video you posted is one of the cheesiest, most informative videos I have ever watched. it helps a lot when it comes to cornering. Thanks!!!!

[leed]

Just to clarify.. Countersteering does not turn the bike. It initiates the turn (or leans the bike, if you will, as @outasight20 stated). If you look at a bike that is already in motion while turning, the front wheel is turning into the direction of the turn, not out of it. Granted, the amount is very little. Pushing the bar further into the turn (like they tell you) simply pushes you further into your lean allowing you to corner sharper at whatever speed you are going.

+1 for Twist of the Wrist, and to add:

Motorcycling is supposed to be relaxing.. Relax! Honestly, it makes the process easier.

[outasight20]

I might recommend holding off on watching Twist of the Wrist II until you have a couple thousand miles under your belt. Most of the tips they give you are to make you go faster around a track, but it sounds like you need to get the basics down first.

I watched Twist II with about 6,000 miles under my belt and it helped tremendously.

As I've said before and will keep saying, staying loose on the bars is the number one thing I can advise you to do, especially in a turn.

[csmith12]

I think what outasight20 meant to say was "Do not try much of what you see in TOTW2". It's for sure not for the beginning rider. But it couldn't hurt to be mentally prepared and watch it. It can help weed out some possible bad advice or better understand the advice you may receive while on your journey to becoming a proficient rider. There is also a few really good safety tips in there no matter your experience level.

[flynjay]

Make sure you are not braking while in the turn. Do all your braking before initiating the turn.

When I first started I had a tendancy to continue to drag the brakes through the first 1/4 of the turn.

Remeber the steps to turning from the MSF: Slow - Look - Press - Roll.

[lgk]

i don't think your rolling on the throttle enough.
that could be why you feel like you have under steer.

[jmgrande]

[Alex]

"When it doubt, gas it. It might not solve the problem, but at least it ends the suspense."

[blink]

Practice in a parking lot, usually after not riding for awhile I will go very slow too...I go to an empty area and crank a few turns, i realize the bike won't slip out.

Counter steer and lose grip, keep a firmer "stiff arm" on your left, (right turn) as a counter steer support

[ajcadoo]

Looking through the turns are helping tremendously. Rolling on the throttle seems to assist too. Very happy now Thanks for all the tips!

[Francis]

I have the same problem. I slow down way too much I think lately but I think that's do to tires not being warm enough (cold weather riding) and I'm afraid I don't have that much traction.

Also, the corner just seems too tight. But I've done it in 'twisties' before. Also, I'm in lane position three when I make the right turns, that's why it's tight.

Also, I feather my clutch when I do right turns sometimes. I know I shouldn't, but I do. Actually, left turns too sometimes when I go really slow due to safety reasons (parked cars in the way, I may not have seen some 'child' behind it).

[EsrTek]

My IRC's stuck as good as my Pirrellis now do for normal commuting.... it's spirited riding, or big lean angle in turns, where I wouldn't trust the IRCs grip. The Pirrellis DO heat up a lot faster and across the entire tire, unlike the IRC's which only heat up the tire parts making contact. On the IRC's I seen my middle of rear hot and gooey, while the edges where dead cold!!!

For the OP's original question... I find myself in same boat as you. I do notice that if I don't over think the next corner, I make it fine. But the very next time I take it (same corner) I can out think myself on it and take it slower and more nervously than last time.

I been practicing my lines and looking thru the corner, also what seems to help me now is to be in 1 gear higher than I think I should. Make's the bike less twitchy when applying throttle and also keeps me from wiggling the backend out from improperly timed downshift.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Francis

I have the same problem. I slow down way too much I think lately but I think that's do to tires not being warm enough (cold weather riding) and I'm afraid I don't have that much traction.

Nothing wrong with entering a corner comfortably slow or with manipulating your clutch, as long as you follow the sequence of leaning and accelerating immediately after.

Your deceleration before the turn and your acceleration after it are telling you at least the minimum traction force that the road offers to your tires at that point and moment.

Just practice over the same corner pushing the limit of speed and lean angle very little each time; over dry asphalt the bike won't skid under you suddenly once you hit the limit of lean.