Valentino Rossi Riding Tips

[Alex]

Useful videos...

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to whole video

[edbro]

Great videos Alex!

[rceezy]

Oh Rossi... why did you have to leave me for Ducati?

[Alex]

Originally Posted by rceezy

Oh Rossi... why did you have to leave me for Ducati?

[rceezy]

I would leave myself for money too. Great post by the way. I can only dream of riding as well as he does.

[JMcDonald]

Good vids, Alex!

[mikedabike64]

dont fall off

[ninja3575]

so Rossi and Stoner ride for the same team?? Not really all too familiar with moto GP ... anyway, the guys a genius on anything with two wheels and a motor...

[Alex]

Stoner is leaving Ducati for Honda next year, and Rossi is moving from Yamaha this year to Ducati next year. Nicky Hayden is staying at Ducati, so Vale and Nicky will be teammates.

[JMcDonald]

It is interesting to see him stress slowing until the apex before accelerating, after our discussion here about beginning acceleration as soon as the turn is initiated.

[CC Cowboy]

Step #4: At least he finally cleared up the rear brake debate.

[ninja3575]

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

It is interesting to see him stress slowing until the apex before accelerating, after our discussion here about beginning acceleration as soon as the turn is initiated.

Hmm... i'm beginning to think that their is no "right" way to handle braking into a turn... some say never brake... the videos i've watched say its ok to break... and the discussions here on various threads just show how potentially polarizing this issue is... I for one have tried a few of the different techniques people have suggested and honestly... all seem to get the job done... what to do ... what to do... guess i gotta stick with one i feel most comfortable with...

[ninja3575]

Originally Posted by Alex

Stoner is leaving Ducati for Honda next year, and Rossi is moving from Yamaha this year to Ducati next year. Nicky Hayden is staying at Ducati, so Vale and Nicky will be teammates.

Big moves happening huh? looking over the top 25 on the moto GP standings... no one seems to ride kawasaki...

[JMcDonald]

Don't they not do MotoGP anymore? I don't really keep up with it, only watching it when I happen to be at my parents' when it is on (only basic cable in my apartment ), but I feel like I remember hearing someone say that.



Nnija3575, yeah I feel the most stable and secure when I begin accelerating at the beginning of the turn. But maybe you are right that there are apparently several ways to skin this cat.

[Alex]

Kawasaki left 2 years ago officially, but a year ago they had a pseudo-team (labeled Hayate Racing) for Marco Melandri to ride a single bike on. Wasn't particularly competitive, and they are completely gone at this point. :-(

[JMcDonald]

Why did they get out of it? Seems like with what they were able to get out of the ZX6R, they could be competitive with good riders.

[Alex]

There is almost zero overlap from a company's streetbike line and the $1m+ prototypes in motogp. It takes big dollars, big support, and a whole bunch of skill to run near the front of that grid; just about every rider is world-class.

[JMcDonald]

I meant more if they were able to make that progress with a production bike and keep it still cheaper than some of their competition, they apparently have the ability to engineer efficient, precise machines in general, and could have been competitive. But yeah, if it is just a matter of investment vs return, then it seems it would be difficult to profit from MotoGP.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by ninja3575

Hmm... i'm beginning to think that their is no "right" way to handle braking into a turn... some say never brake... the videos i've watched say its ok to break... and the discussions here on various threads just show how potentially polarizing this issue is... I for one have tried a few of the different techniques people have suggested and honestly... all seem to get the job done... what to do ... what to do... guess i gotta stick with one i feel most comfortable with...

Area under the curve. The perfect turn would be full speed, instant stop, instantly change direction, then instantly accelerate to top speed again. Not physically possible, so you maximize the deceleration and acceleration curve steepness as much as possible, as much as the hardware can tolerate without traction/mechanical failure.

Real-world riding is much different, night and day different.

[JMcDonald]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Real-world riding is much different, night and day different.

What do you mean by "real world," and from what do you mean it is different, and how so?

[Eva689]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Area under the curve. The perfect turn would be full speed, instant stop, instantly change direction, then instantly accelerate to top speed again. Not physically possible, so you maximize the deceleration and acceleration curve steepness as much as possible, as much as the hardware can tolerate without traction/mechanical failure.

Real-world riding is much different, night and day different.

Not quite. If you assume everybody had to follow the same line, then yes. But since you are trying to minimise (minimize for US) time, speed isn't the only thing you think about. For example, you wouldn't start zig-zagging through any corner, going from full speed - stop - full speed, even if you could.

There is a trade-off between losing speed and adding distance most of the time. An example of this is the hairpin. I don't know about the correct line for bikes, but for cars the usual wide entry/wide exit isn't actually the fastest line. You can go faster by going deeper into the turn, slowing more than you'd expect, turn a tighter line and hit the accelerator on the way out. Even though it adds distance, you can maintain a higher speed for longer which actually gives you a smaller time - even though you're going further.

[JMcDonald]

By his "stop-turn-go" comment I think he meant more like pac-man style in which there is actually no moment when the vehicle changes speed, and there is no limit to the tightness with which one can corner.

[Misti]

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

It is interesting to see him stress slowing until the apex before accelerating, after our discussion here about beginning acceleration as soon as the turn is initiated.

Just to clarify, in our previous discussions about when to get on the gas I talked about getting back on the gas ASAP once the bike is TURNED, not as soon as the turn is initiated. If you try to roll on the gas as soon as the turn is initiated you may end up running wide, you need to turn the bike first, then roll on the gas.

I didn't see anywhere where he was stressing slowing until the apex during both vids. When talking about throttle control Andy Ibbott says that "on the entry to the corner the throttle is closed but once on line he settles the bike by using a gradual continuous roll on...then he starts driving and getting harder on the gas. It doesn't say anywhere that he slows until the apex, just that he gets on the gas once the bike is on line.

Later in the video they discuss getting the bike turned very quickly as well, the quicker the bike is turned, the faster he can get back on the gas.

The other area that throttle control is discussed is when they are talking about the 3 different lines Rossi might take when racing, the qualifying line (which allows him to get back on the gas the quickest) the defensive line which requires waiting to get back on the gas and will result in exiting slowest, and the racing line which is a compromise of the two where he can block a pass while also allowing himself to get back on the gas as early as possible.

Misti

[gt_turbo]

pretty nice learning video

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Alex]

/merged with other thread

[alex.s]

is it just me or is anyone else always surprised when they hear rossi speak? you see him race and you picture this italian zeus voice of power, then you hear him and it makes you wonder how old he is or if he's hit too many speed bumps on those bikes.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by alex.s

is it just me or is anyone else always surprised when they hear rossi speak? you see him race and you picture this italian zeus voice of power, then you hear him and it makes you wonder how old he is or if he's hit too many speed bumps on those bikes.

yea, about the same as Mike Tyson.... wouldn't taken either of them on in their respective sports....

[BlackNinja]

Originally Posted by csmith12

yea, about the same as Mike Tyson.... wouldn't taken either of them on in their respective sports....

Before I met him, I thought Dick Marcinko would have a deep, commanding voice. He falls under the same category as Rossi/Tyson.

[choneofakind]

I tried that supermoto thing rossi did with slowing the back wheel down more than the front but not locking it on my mountain bike. its tricky. I really want to try it out on the ninja but i cant. college . next season

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I tried that supermoto thing rossi did with slowing the back wheel down more than the front but not locking it on my mountain bike. its tricky. I really want to try it out on the ninja but i cant. college . next season

I attempted to "back it in" (on the ninja) on my dead end road where I live, at a somewhat low speed, 25mph maybe wasn't watching. And let me tell you.... I have no clue how to build this skill without crashing more than a few times and/or scaring the crap out of myself nearly every time I attempt it.

After locking it up many times and a few near highsides, I was finally able to step it out a time or two. Actually, that is the easy part! Keeping yourself calm enough to ride it out without trying to correct the slide feeling is the hard part.

[choneofakind]

well i mean i've done it accidentally by down-shifting aggressively while getting on the front brake once or twice. Plus i actually use this when I mountain bike for tight or fast (or both) sections of single-track. I've just never tried it on a motorcycle because I didn't realize it was an actual technique; thought it was just a mistake, so I've been waiting for lower rpms to downshift instead

[csmith12]

I tried a few ways, the vid shows his feather braking, but doesn't clearly explain his shifting (pre or during corner setup) like the brake mini shot in the corner of the vid.

I think I am missing some "timing" piece of the puzzle to be able to pull it off every time. If you slow down the video, it sounds as if all downshifting is complete before you hear the chirps of the rear tire and it's all engine brake from there and rear brake to initiate the "step out". Andy also states that it's engine brake during the technique.

I will try again when the weather breaks, and report. Let's hope its not a crash report.

[austexjg]

Could a "slipper clutch" be the unknown variable it making the rear end "step out"?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by austexjg

Could a "slipper clutch" be the unknown variable it making the rear end "step out"?

I don't think so,

In the video, I can hear a blip and a downshift just before the step out. I also see he is right over the tank with front wheel out of alignment. Also after reviewing in slowmo again, I see after the wheels line back up he performs the hook turn.

Getting it to step out is tricky, cause it on the edge of locking the back wheel but once you find your sweet spot on the brakes it's not so hard anymore. So for me... I find myself fighting the technique. I hear the rear chatter so I stabilize the throttle, let off the brake and hook instead. It seems to go against everything I have been learned.

I think it's mostly fear and lack of commitment on my part.

[alex.s]

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/arc.../t-406034.html

[csmith12]

Thanks alex, confirms some of my thoughts, and some great new info that may have been taken for granted/left for homework in the rossi vid.

[BlackNinja]

This thread makes me quite worried, to be honest. The Ninja 250 attracts new riders. Riders so new, in fact, they have trouble just operating a motorcycle. I wonder if any of these guys (There's a lot of views on this thread...) are going to try this on the street.

I grew up riding dirtbikes, and can sling them in just about any which way while trail riding. Dirt, however, is much softer, and doesn't hurt nearly as bad WHEN, not if, you go down. I've never owned a motard before, so I haven't even attempted this on pavement. And you sure as hell won't see me trying it on a streetbike.

Please people, if you really want to learn this skill (Or learn how to truely ride a motorcycle), go buy a dirt bike and play in a field or in the woods. You'll learn more about motorcycle control and handling from a week of rugged dirt bike riding than 3 years of street riding.

[bdavison]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja

This thread makes me quite worried, to be honest. The Ninja 250 attracts new riders. Riders so new, in fact, they have trouble just operating a motorcycle. I wonder if any of these guys (There's a lot of views on this thread...) are going to try this on the street.

I grew up riding dirtbikes, and can sling them in just about any which way while trail riding. Dirt, however, is much softer, and doesn't hurt nearly as bad WHEN, not if, you go down. I've never owned a motard before, so I haven't even attempted this on pavement. And you sure as hell won't see me trying it on a streetbike.

Please people, if you really want to learn this skill (Or learn how to truely ride a motorcycle), go buy a dirt bike and play in a field or in the woods. You'll learn more about motorcycle control and handling from a week of rugged dirt bike riding than 3 years of street riding.

You'll learn a weeks worth of dirt riding, and not much useful for the street. Road is completely different from dirt.

Im not saying dirt riding wont teach you a few things, but riding on dirt, and thinking that that entirely translates to road is a mistake. If you want to learn road, then you have to ride on road. There is no shortcut to learning how a bike behaves on road, but actual seat time.

You dont teach a jet pilot in a boat.

[BlackNinja]

Originally Posted by bdavison

You'll learn a weeks worth of dirt riding, and not much useful for the street. Road is completely different from dirt.

Im not saying dirt riding wont teach you a few things, but riding on dirt, and thinking that that entirely translates to road is a mistake. If you want to learn road, then you have to ride on road. There is no shortcut to learning how a bike behaves on road, but actual seat time.

You dont teach a jet pilot in a boat.

Find me a road racer that made it big that never had any dirt bike seat time in his life.

[Alex]

All of the disciplines can add to a rider's skills. True, someone who is fantastic on dirt but has never been on the street, will have new skills to learn to stay safe. But - they will have a significant advantage in how bikes feel in low traction situations.

And there is a direct parallel from riding at low speeds in low traction, to riding at very high speeds in higher traction environments. The tires are no longer as hooked up to the surface, and managing how the bike turns, goes, stops, leans, twists, etc., is transferable.

The problem with riders like me and anyone else without alot of dirt experience, is that when things do get loose on the street, learning how to deal with it for the first time there has very significant consequences. It's like learning to dive from the 10-meter platform to start. Those that start young and are comfortable slip-sliding along, do seem to carry those skills over into the street and track environment, even those who aren't racing for a living.