Incredibly tight factory bolt. Halp - Page 2

ChaoSS · November 6th, 2012, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

sorry guys, but the correct answer is "use a closed loop 6side wrench with a small persuader or the double wrench torque trick" or if the thing is already rounded "use an extractor bit, hammer it on if it wont fit immediately"

A box end wrench is what it will be called in most stores.

I've always preferred sockets, if it's on too hard you use a breaker bar and you don't have to worry about breaking your ratchet. I don't like using cheater bars with wrenches, especially on something like the oil change where you don't have much room to work with, the breaker bar tends to be easier to work with.

Also, there's more than one type of extractor, the type you don't want is what is usually referred to as an extractor, and you drill it into the bolt that needs to come out. The type that grips around the rounded off bolt is what you would want to use in this case. Either way, if you ever need to use one of those tools, you definitely need to replace the fastener after you get it off.

alex.s · November 6th, 2012, 12:44 PM

the difference would be a screw-type extractor vs. a socket-type extractor, yes? i was talking about socket type. also not much difference between a breaker bar with a socket and a double wrench bar in the end

csmith12 · November 6th, 2012, 01:17 PM

socket or wrench... much to do about nothing. you do what ya gotta do to get it loose with what you have or can buy and fix the aftermath.

and alex you negated your "correct answer"

ChaoSS · November 6th, 2012, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

the difference would be a screw-type extractor vs. a socket-type extractor, yes? i was talking about socket type. also not much difference between a breaker bar with a socket and a double wrench bar in the end

Yes, a socket type. I wan't trying to say you were wrong or anything, just clarifying for people who don't know and might go for the wrong tool.

When you say a double wrench i'm assuming you are talking about using a second wrench to extend your leverage and increase your torque. There are two reasons I don't like doing this. The firsg reason is that when you are working with limited room, the angles required can make it difficult to make it work. The second reason the reason why I quit doing this myself, is that I now like to use the right tool for the job for safety reasons. I talked to a guy in my old line of work (tow truck) who was using this method to pull a driveline, which tends to have very tight bolts. The cheater wrench broke (the "tooth") and the piece that broke off hit him in the eye, blinding him. It's more likely with cheap tools, of course, but in his case it was high quality, either snapon or mac. Last time I heard from him he was trying to get surgery to fix it, but it was a year later and they didn't know if he would see again out of that eye. Of course, he couldn't simply go back to work driving with one eye.

Not trying to be rude or anything, but if you can wear gear when riding, you can use the proper tools when working on the bike.

alex.s · November 6th, 2012, 03:30 PM

valid point!

Aggrotech · November 6th, 2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motofool

Now that the bolt is out and you have found the correct tool, fix that hex head with a file as perfectly as you can, lubricate both o-rings well,torque the bolt as recommended and add some safety wire if you want to be extra careful.

Don't half-ass anything: ride away and order a new bolt for the next change, when you won't have any problem to destroy the current one if needed (I bet you will not need doing so).

Be more gentle in the future, Justin, your bike is a sophisticated lady and a noble machine.

New bolt already ordered. 32freakin dollars. Wont be here for a couple days so no bike until then. new helmet and gear will be coming tomorrow morning too

. I tried to be gentle, trust me..i spent 3+hours trying everything i could to get it off lol. I used 3 different tools on the socket wrench for more leverage, i had someone stand in front of the bike so it wouldnt move forward while i tried to get it off. It just needed some brute strength.
I explained my situation to the guy on the phone and he laughed and said yeah its happend a few times on 250's that people have brought in. the bolt is off, oil is drained, new filter is ready to go and now i just have to wait for the filter bolt to come in. I dunno if i can make it.

Should also mention the whole process was well over 3 and a half hours. Worked all through the night to get that damn thing off lol. Now its prepped and ready for the new filter/oil then ready to ride again. Wilsons was going to charge me 180dollars (after a 50$ discount) so fck that, no oil change is worth 180dollars.

alex.s · November 6th, 2012, 05:24 PM

i think there is a filter that will screw into the slot without the need for the bolt or cover. can't provide any more details than that though, sorry. maybe its worth looking into for the time it takes to get the new bolt in? looks like you have an r6 also so you're probably fine just waiting for the bolt. (i know if im out of bikes to ride, i start going crazy)

Aggrotech · November 6th, 2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

i think there is a filter that will screw into the slot without the need for the bolt or cover. can't provide any more details than that though, sorry. maybe its worth looking into for the time it takes to get the new bolt in? looks like you have an r6 also so you're probably fine just waiting for the bolt. (i know if im out of bikes to ride, i start going crazy)

Lol i really should change that, you're the 2nd person in this thread alone who thinks i have an R6. Sadly, i do not. I started on a 250 and my "end goal" is an R6.

I'll have a look around for that filter though.

alex.s · November 6th, 2012, 06:01 PM

you don't want an r6 anyway. :P

Motofool · November 6th, 2012, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggrotech

........It just needed some brute strength..........

I would say that you needed better grip, since that is what failed.

Take it as an experience: always use the proper tool, six point socket+breaking bar in this case, some pre-soak with WD-40 or any penetrating lubricant, some heat (a hot engine may have been sufficient), some vibration or shock (hammer directly over the head or impact tool).

It is just a hollow bolt screwed into aluminum.

Best !

Trailerboy531 · November 6th, 2012, 10:36 PM

Have you......ridden an r6?

Great bike, I really enjoy them. But they're not my favorite Super Sport.

Of the ZX-636R, GSXR, R6, and CBR600rr I will give you that it's the sexiest. But I think it's not leaps and bounds better looking and the other bikes are also great ones. Try them all!

KELPHYN · November 6th, 2012, 10:54 PM

Best lesson learned should be. . . . DON'T USE OPEN END WRENCHES TO LOOSEN BOLTS/NUTS.

Aggrotech · November 6th, 2012, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KELPHYN

Best lesson learned should be. . . . DON'T USE OPEN END WRENCHES TO LOOSEN BOLTS/NUTS.

yeahh...even though the oil drain bolt is still perfectly fine other than the obvious paint chipping off from the wrench, wont be using wrenches anymore

Jiggles · November 6th, 2012, 11:38 PM

I use wrenches, I think u r just teh fails

KELPHYN · November 7th, 2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I use wrenches, I think u r just teh fails

You makey no sense??? Just meant use box-end or wrench or sockets. Not OPEN END of wrench.

Jiggles · November 7th, 2012, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KELPHYN

You makey no sense??? Just meant use box-end or wrench or sockets. Not OPEN END of wrench.

OPEN ENDED SON!

Link to original page on YouTube.

KELPHYN · November 7th, 2012, 12:32 AM

Your bolt wasn't over torqued was it? A few more years of wrenching and you will learn to.

Motofool · November 7th, 2012, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

OPEN ENDED SON!

That video must be banned !!!

Funny how you fish the bolt with the wrench and try not to touch the oil with your hands.

LoneRonin · November 7th, 2012, 07:35 AM

you need to use a breaker bar or something like that for more leverage.
You'll never get off with the regular socket wrench...

Lychee · November 7th, 2012, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motofool

I would say that you needed better grip, since that is whatuu failed.

Take it as an experience: always use the proper tool, six point socket+breaking bar in this case, some pre-soak with WD-40 or any penetrating lubricant, some heat (a hot engine may have been sufficient), some vibration or shock (hammer directly over the head or impact tool).

It is just a hollow bolt screwed into aluminum.

Best !

Finally! Someone suggests penetrating lubricant!

Jono · November 7th, 2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lychee

Finally! Someone suggests penetrating lubricant!

In my few years of wrenching on cars and bikes I have come to the conclusion that penetrating lubricant never works (ever).

menikmati · November 7th, 2012, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lychee

Finally! Someone suggests penetrating lubricant!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

In my few years of wrenching on cars and bikes I have come to the conclusion that penetrating lubricant never works (ever).

Usually if a bolt is really stubborn I apply penetrating lubricant every couple of hours and let it sit overnight.

I recently used a 5+ year old can of PB Blaster on a stubborn gas tank bolt on my ZX6R. Weird how one bolt came out effortlessly and the other just refused to turn.

Lychee · November 7th, 2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

In my few years of wrenching on cars and bikes I have come to the conclusion that penetrating lubricant never works (ever).

You're doing it wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by menikmati

Usually if a bolt is really stubborn I apply penetrating lubricant every couple of hours and let it sit overnight.

There you go.

csmith12 · November 7th, 2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by menikmati

Usually if a bolt is really stubborn I apply penetrating lubricant every couple of hours and let it sit overnight.

That is unrealistic a lot of the time. If a mechanic gives you a quote, they pretty much stick to it not matter how long it takes. Overnight isn't really an option most of the time. Same deal at the track. If you wanna ride, you fix it NOW.

menikmati · November 7th, 2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

That is unrealistic a lot of the time. If a mechanic gives you a quote, they pretty much stick to it not matter how long it takes. Overnight isn't really an option most of the time. Same deal at the track. If you wanna ride, you fix it NOW.

That is true in those circumstances, I'm not the type to brute force something if I know I have the incorrect tool for the job. I'm more of a "right tool for the job" kind of guy rather than MacGyver.

If you have the right tools or the smarts to do it then do it up!

csmith12 · November 7th, 2012, 12:18 PM

I am a "work smarter not harder" kind of guy. Sometimes that takes different shapes but I am not afraid to bust out the duct tape if need. hahahahhaha

Jono · November 7th, 2012, 02:11 PM

Well, I am glad penetrating lube seems to work for everyone but me.

choneofakind · November 7th, 2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

In my few years of wrenching on cars and bikes I have come to the conclusion that penetrating lubricant never works (ever).

I've had pretty good luck with it. I usually soak the crap out of the bolt in question, and let it sit for 30-45 minutes, hitting it with more lube every 15. The break helps because by that point, I'm usually fuming mad, and maybe the lube doesn' actually help the bolt, idk, but the break really helps me calm down and think more rationally besides just, "MOTHER ****ING BOLT WON'T COME OFF WHEN I ****ING NEED IT TOO!!!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

but I am not afraid to bust out the duct tape if need.

Jiggles · November 7th, 2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

I am a "work smarter not harder" kind of guy. a

Yea, I'm lazy too

csmith12 · November 7th, 2012, 02:40 PM

You don't even know how true that is. Seems I am caught. hahahahahahah

Trailerboy531 · November 7th, 2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by menikmati

I'm more of a "right tool for the job" kind of guy rather than MacGyver.

You're doing it wrong. As a motorcycle rider you must become MacGyver.

Zipties. Zipties everywhere.

What is currently holding my undertail on? Zipties.

MacGyver

menikmati · November 7th, 2012, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

You're doing it wrong. As a motorcycle rider you must become MacGyver.

Zipties. Zipties everywhere.

What is currently holding my undertail on? Zipties.

MacGyver

Zip ties are actually the right tool for most jobs, I always keep some handy.

I wuz talkin bout usin Hulk Smash and hammering random ****.

Jono · November 7th, 2012, 06:33 PM

But...... Hulk smash is usually your best option!

Aggrotech · November 8th, 2012, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by menikmati

Zip ties are actually the right tool for most jobs, I always keep some handy.

I wuz talkin bout usin Hulk Smash and hammering random ****.

hey hey, it worked. and im a pretty strong dude and that thing was NOT moving. I dont neglect my hands/grip at the gym either so it wasnt poor grip. Even threw on my gloves. Like i said though, the socket wrench isnt new, expensive or fancy...Id gladly sacrifice a socket wrench thats 8+years old then go to the dealership for something like that. I'm also fairly limited on parts/tools to use.

ChaoSS · November 8th, 2012, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggrotech

hey hey, it worked. and im a pretty strong dude and that thing was NOT moving. I dont neglect my hands/grip at the gym either so it wasnt poor grip. Even threw on my gloves. Like i said though, the socket wrench isnt new, expensive or fancy...Id gladly sacrifice a socket wrench thats 8+years old then go to the dealership for something like that. I'm also fairly limited on parts/tools to use.

When he said poor grip I don't think he meant your hands, he meant the tool on the bolt. That's a problem with open ended wrenches and 12 point tools, the grip can be poor.

slowninja · November 8th, 2012, 12:56 PM

Use a snap wrench or extend the handlebar of your wrench. It much easier.

November 6th, 2012, 12:44 PM	#42
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	the difference would be a screw-type extractor vs. a socket-type extractor, yes? i was talking about socket type. also not much difference between a breaker bar with a socket and a double wrench bar in the end __________________________________________________

November 6th, 2012, 01:17 PM	#43
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	socket or wrench... much to do about nothing. you do what ya gotta do to get it loose with what you have or can buy and fix the aftermath. and alex you negated your "correct answer" __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

November 6th, 2012, 03:30 PM	#45
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	valid point! __________________________________________________

November 6th, 2012, 05:24 PM	#47
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	i think there is a filter that will screw into the slot without the need for the bolt or cover. can't provide any more details than that though, sorry. maybe its worth looking into for the time it takes to get the new bolt in? looks like you have an r6 also so you're probably fine just waiting for the bolt. (i know if im out of bikes to ride, i start going crazy) __________________________________________________

November 6th, 2012, 06:01 PM	#49
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	you don't want an r6 anyway. :P __________________________________________________

November 6th, 2012, 10:36 PM	#51
Trailerboy531 Gear crash test dummy Name: Max Location: South Bay (So. Cal) Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250 race bike, 2014 ZX-636r Posts: A lot.	Have you......ridden an r6? Great bike, I really enjoy them. But they're not my favorite Super Sport. Of the ZX-636R, GSXR, R6, and CBR600rr I will give you that it's the sexiest. But I think it's not leaps and bounds better looking and the other bikes are also great ones. Try them all!

November 6th, 2012, 10:54 PM	#52
KELPHYN ninjette.org guru Name: Calvin Location: Quesnel, B.C Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R (sold), 2013 300SE Posts: 276	Best lesson learned should be. . . . DON'T USE OPEN END WRENCHES TO LOOSEN BOLTS/NUTS.

November 6th, 2012, 11:38 PM	#54
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	I use wrenches, I think u r just teh fails __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

November 7th, 2012, 12:32 AM	#57
KELPHYN ninjette.org guru Name: Calvin Location: Quesnel, B.C Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R (sold), 2013 300SE Posts: 276	Your bolt wasn't over torqued was it? A few more years of wrenching and you will learn to.

November 7th, 2012, 07:35 AM	#59
LoneRonin ninjette.org sage Name: Jason Location: Mississauga Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250r Posts: 634	you need to use a breaker bar or something like that for more leverage. You'll never get off with the regular socket wrench... __________________________________________________ ”Any man dies with a clean sword, I’ll rape his f*ing corpse!”- The Hound

November 7th, 2012, 12:18 PM	#66
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	I am a "work smarter not harder" kind of guy. Sometimes that takes different shapes but I am not afraid to bust out the duct tape if need. hahahahhaha __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

November 7th, 2012, 02:11 PM	#67
Jono ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jono Location: Memphis, TN Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Triumph Street Triple, 2009 KLX250SF, 2003 Suzuki SV650S (Sold), 2006 Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: A lot.	Well, I am glad penetrating lube seems to work for everyone but me.

November 7th, 2012, 02:40 PM	#70
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	You don't even know how true that is. Seems I am caught. hahahahahahah __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

November 7th, 2012, 06:33 PM	#73
Jono ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jono Location: Memphis, TN Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Triumph Street Triple, 2009 KLX250SF, 2003 Suzuki SV650S (Sold), 2006 Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: A lot.	But...... Hulk smash is usually your best option!

November 8th, 2012, 12:56 PM	#76
slowninja ninjette.org member Name: Duey Location: FLorida Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R Posts: 71	Use a snap wrench or extend the handlebar of your wrench. It much easier.

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