October 20th, 2012, 09:43 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: David
Location: Florida
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Kawasaki Ninja 250r Posts: 77
|
Getting Good Gas Mileage with a Bigger CC Engine
Can you get better gas mileage with (for example) a 1000cc sportbike bike cruising in 6th gear all the time?
__________________________________________________
Saved by Grace |
|
October 20th, 2012, 09:44 PM | #2 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
|
Better than what?
__________________________________________________
Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered) |
|
October 20th, 2012, 09:55 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 EX250, 2014 EX300 Posts: A lot.
|
depends on a lot of factors but if you apply hypermiling techniques, you should get better mileage than standard riding.
depending on the bike and how its its tuned, the effort may not be worth it though.
__________________________________________________
Ethioknight Memorial Fund- Sticker sale http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111700 |
|
October 20th, 2012, 09:56 PM | #4 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Hansveer
Location: Bombay, India
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r - Track whore, Ninja 300 - SOLD, KTM RC390 - Orange Hulk, Ducati 899 Panigale - Red Devil. Posts: A lot.
|
If you mean better than a 1000cc constantly redlining, vs a 1000cc doing more "sane" revs... yeah, why not...
|
|
October 20th, 2012, 10:01 PM | #5 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
Location: San Jose, Ca
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Apr '13
|
Yes.
__________________________________________________
If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
|
October 20th, 2012, 10:16 PM | #6 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: David
Location: Florida
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Kawasaki Ninja 250r Posts: 77
|
Quote:
And the bike I'm looking at is the Yamaha FZ8 http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/pr...52/0/home.aspx
__________________________________________________
Saved by Grace |
|
|
October 20th, 2012, 11:40 PM | #7 |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
|
39 mpg. Eeesh.
|
|
October 21st, 2012, 06:24 AM | #8 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Frugal
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW)
Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.
|
Some basics on gasoline piston engines: One of the things that affects engine efficiency (how much gasoline it takes to get a specific amount of work done) is pumping losses. When the piston is going down and drawing air in past the carb throttle plate, it takes energy to do that, energy which comes from burning gasoline. It's like trying to breathe through a straw, the smaller the straw the harder it is to do it. Pumping losses are fairly significant energy consumers, so anything you do to decrease them helps gas mileage.
The amount of energy it takes to cruise at a given speed is fairly consistent. Say it takes 15 HP to cruise at 60mph. That 15HP will be fairly constant across different models of bikes regardless of engine size and max power rating. Engines are mainly air pumps, and the larger the motor the more air gets pumped through it. However, air flow through the motor is a function of power output, so the larger the motor, the smaller the relative throttle opening will be. The smaller the relative throttle opening, the more internal power is used to pull air through the throttle, so all things being equal a larger motor will get less gas mileage, due mainly to pumping losses. To get the best efficiency you need to use the smallest motor that will get the job done and run it wide open, full throttle. You can google "brake specific fuel consumption" for more info on the subject. As an aside, one of the several reasons that diesels get better efficiency than gasoline motors is because diesels typically don't have throttle plates, air is drawn into the motor through just a wide-open hole with an air filter on it. Diesels can function through a wide range of air/fuel mixtures, so throttling is accomplished by varying the absolute amount of fuel being injected into the combustion chamber. Gasoline engines require a very accurate ratio between air and fuel, so they're throttled by restricting air flow into the combustion chamber rather than the fuel as in diesels. |
|
October 21st, 2012, 06:42 AM | #9 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
|
Excellent post, Frugal
This bike is fuel injected, which help to reduce the explained problem, since the bottle neck effect of the critical diameter of the crab's throttle is improved with a higher diameter for air intake. However, the butterfly valve remains, as well as the partially open condition at anything less than WOT. Another factor is aerodynamics at high speeds. This bike is naked, which works against fuel economy at any speed above 50 ~ 60 mph. Stay with the 250 cc if fuel economy is important to you.
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
|
October 21st, 2012, 06:50 AM | #10 |
Que Buenos Son!!!
Name: Ryan
Location: Grovetucky, OH
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia Shiver 750, Husaberg FE 450, Ninja 300 (sold), xr100 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '14
|
http://ecomodder.com/forum/EM-hyperm...ecodriving.php
My favorite is rule #47. Drive without brakes. Brakes only slow you down.
__________________________________________________
Don't do something because it's easy,.. Do it because it's not! If you aren't going forward, then you're falling behind. "Drive it like you stole it"!!! |
|
October 21st, 2012, 07:03 AM | #11 |
Texas Newbie
Name: John
Location: D/FW Texas
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 07 Ninja EX250, 07 FZ6 Posts: A lot.
|
I'm getting 48+ on my 600cc.
|
|
October 21st, 2012, 07:12 AM | #12 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Marc
Location: Castaic, CA
Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 1986 Goldwing, 1996 CR500, 2011 Ninja 250, 2009 Harley Heritage Softail, 1941 Suzuki Gerbil 250 Posts: 427
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
I know there's a 7th gear here somewhere... Changing to 15T/41T, now I'll get that 7th gear, lol. |
|
|
October 22nd, 2012, 02:51 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: W
Location: Austin, TX
Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250R (sold), 2012 Tuono V4R Posts: 512
|
The answer, from my experience, is that yes, it's possible. However, it means you have to ride the bike like an old lady.
For my bike, it means that I cannot exceed 6000 rpm. If you want a 250R analogy, it's basically like having to ride under Kawasaki's suggested breakin procedure for the first 600 miles no matter what. However, you also have to be careful to not lug the engine (that will kill your fuel efficiency pretty quickly as well). I usually use a formula for the gear I want for a certain speed.
__________________________________________________
2010 Kawasaki Ninja 250R - "Aria" (sold) 2012 Aprilia Tuono V4R - "Perrine" Proof that Harleys and Ninjettes are friendly with each other |
|
October 22nd, 2012, 03:06 PM | #14 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Bill
Location: Tampa Fl
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 250 Ninja Posts: 180
|
Lots of variables in the real world. Little motors like the Ninjette have great MPG in stop and go commuter type riding. While your sitting at the stoplight at idle next to a 1000cc bike or 5000cc Mustang you are way more efficient. Also in traffic both bikes aren't developing much horsepower. The lighter bike will be more efficient than the bigger bike which is heavier and consumes more gas to accelerate. On the open road at high speeds things change to the advantage of the larger bikes. As an exterme example, I'm confident that if I held 100 MPH on my 1300 FJR for one hour it would get way better milage than my Ninjette doing the same thing. The poor little 250 would be at the top of its ability while the FJR is just crusin'
Bill |
|
October 22nd, 2012, 03:30 PM | #15 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Calvin
Location: Quesnel, B.C
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R (sold), 2013 300SE Posts: 276
|
I regularly ride with 1000cc bikes. If we are travelling 110kmph and under I kick their ass at the gas pump. From 110-130kmph I generally take about a litre less at the pumps, as we start pushing 140kmph we're about the same. After that they usually get better mileage and I'm taking a litre more at the pump.
|
|
October 22nd, 2012, 03:36 PM | #16 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Whodat
Location: Ware Is.,MA
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): I pass the wind! Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Mar '13, Jun '14
|
I rode with a buddy of mine (not on the same bike)for the last week. We got the same MPG and I have 2 more cylinders.
__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough! Last futzed with by CC Cowboy; October 22nd, 2012 at 05:04 PM. |
|
October 22nd, 2012, 04:45 PM | #17 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Phx
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): CBR Posts: 145
|
Generally it's usually all about the engine, what it was designed to do, and how you use it. Typically fuel economy is a very distant thought for motorcycle designers, they design the engine with the first goal of giving the maximum power possible, and any thought or design of economy is usually tacked on at the end, such as restricting exhaust under certain RPMs, or playing other games to get the engine and exhaust legal.
There are larger bikes then the Ninja 250R which get better mileage. Honda has been pushing hard into more efficient engine configurations lately, I think the NC700X is a good example of a bike designed with economy in front of performance - in fact I think that's one of the only motorcycles available today which makes that trade off. But if your goal is to get a liter sport bike to have better mileage then the Ninja 250R, then generally it isn't going to happen unless you practice pretty extremely hypermiling - effectively working around what the engine was primarily designed to do (go fast) - and in that case why even buy it? It simply isn't what the engine was designed to do. |
|
October 22nd, 2012, 09:11 PM | #18 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
|
^^ don't forget that the 250 has carbs. At the top, they dump fuel in, and at the bottom, they suck, requiring more throttle, which uses more gas.
FI is more precise and more adjustable. That's how the 650 gets roughly the same mileage as the 250. |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Gas Mileage: Beyond the Basics | tnr4 | General Motorcycling Discussion | 39 | July 28th, 2013 09:08 AM |
Gas Mileage: New vs Old Gen | SmithSwede | General Motorcycling Discussion | 9 | June 12th, 2012 01:07 PM |
[topix.net] - Less is more: Group rides, good gas mileage have led to a scooter swarm | Ninjette Newsbot | Motorcycling News | 0 | November 22nd, 2009 06:10 PM |
gas mileage | motorcycle_munge | General Motorcycling Discussion | 23 | May 16th, 2009 01:54 PM |
Why the sucky gas mileage? | Gbug | General Motorcycling Discussion | 10 | March 17th, 2009 06:05 PM |
|
|