Broke key in gas tank

BoKing · August 23rd, 2013, 05:19 PM

The kicker is I knew the old key was getting weak and had a replacement made at a locksmith, but the new key only worked in the gas tank and not the ignition and once I discovered this I never took the time to go back and address it.

1) The old key is turned half-way in. This seems to prevent me from being able to yank it out with tweezers/duct tape. Assuming I cannot grab hold of the broken part of the key (it's flush/flat with the surrounding area preventing me from grabbing it), do I need to have the key turned back to default before attempting to remove it? To clarify: After you put the key in the tank you rotate it 90 degrees to make it open. My old key is broken off in there, turned at a 45 degree angle.

2) What's the best way to remove a broken key?

3) Can a locksmith craft a new key from 2 broken pieces?

Thanks in advance. My bike is stuck at the gas station where the key broke in it so timely answers are definitely appreciated.

Motofool · August 23rd, 2013, 06:33 PM

Find a way to haul the bike back home; you cannot make it work tonight.

..........Don't try a screwdriver in the ignition switch, it just doesn't work.

BoKing · August 23rd, 2013, 08:47 PM

Ok an update:

My brother was able to successfully remove the broken key. While sitting at the gas station he looked at my replica key and determined it was incrementally taller than the original so he took a metal file to it to slim away a millimeter of metal, thinking the replica wasn't engaging the tumblers successfully because of the height difference.

It didn't work. Same problem, replica key goes in but doesn't turn. So at this point I have the key out and no key that works and I'm afraid to go to the locksmith without getting the bike towed :/

I'm afraid the locksmith well look at the replica and say "it looks just fine" and without the actual bike be unable to do anything. Ugh.

Used Ninja · August 23rd, 2013, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoKing

Ok an update:

My brother was able to successfully remove the broken key. While sitting at the gas station he looked at my replica key and determined it was incrementally taller than the original so he took a metal file to it to slim away a millimeter of metal, thinking the replica wasn't engaging the tumblers successfully because of the height difference.

It didn't work. Same problem, replica key goes in but doesn't turn. So at this point I have the key out and no key that works and I'm afraid to go to the locksmith without getting the bike towed :/

I'm afraid the locksmith well look at the replica and say "it looks just fine" and without the actual bike be unable to do anything. Ugh.

It looks fine? Unless you go to an awful locksmith, you shouldn't have this issue. My copy was made shallow and it only worked in the ignition and the helmet lock (luckily these things can run with low gas!). I went back to another employee and he took the time to figure out what was the problem, looked at the books for help (he said it wasn't helpful), made me a new key from a new blank, and then tried to fix my old one! All for free, without even showing my receipt or anything! They asked me to test my first key and I put it in the ignition thinking it was the place with the least tolerance, but I guess I was wrong o.O.

I'm sure they'll be happy to do the same for you, well at least make another from a blank. I'm not sure if I'd use your beat up original, or a key code, but my policy is to leave originals collecting dust.

BoKing · August 23rd, 2013, 09:27 PM

I'm dreading having to get it towed to the locksmith. Something tells me they're going to need to test a bunch of times on it.

az3200 · August 23rd, 2013, 09:33 PM

a good locksmith can make a working key without having one to copy.

BoKing · August 23rd, 2013, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by az3200

a good locksmith can make a working key without having one to copy.

Are you suggesting I not take the bike to the locksmith? Is that a possibility?

What info would I need for the locksmith so he could get an appropriate key? Vin number/make/model etc?

Used Ninja · August 23rd, 2013, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoKing

Are you suggesting I not take the bike to the locksmith? Is that a possibility?

What info would I need for the locksmith so he could get an appropriate key? Vin number/make/model etc?

It can be as simple as shaving a key down manually by putting it in your ignition / gas tank... or there's a code that came with your bike if it is new. I read that there was a number printed behind the ignition keyhole that was the same as the key code, but I'm not sure about this. I think there might be one under the helmet lock or something as well.

Hopefully someone who knows more will pitch in =p. I'd look for that code though.

az3200 · August 24th, 2013, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoKing

Are you suggesting I not take the bike to the locksmith? Is that a possibility?

What info would I need for the locksmith so he could get an appropriate key? Vin number/make/model etc?

well first If i were you I'd call the original locksmith and tell him what the problem was...and that you need it fixed ASAP. Then go from there. Depending on how your conversation with him goes maybe try calling different locksmiths. They might be able to shape the copy you have now to get it working.

And idk if you need that information but from my understanding they measure the pins inside and can make a key from the measurements. Which I would imagine would me more expensive and time consuming that just having a copy made.....which you already did. Call the original locksmith.

Motofool · August 24th, 2013, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoKing

..........What info would I need for the locksmith so he could get an appropriate key? Vin number/make/model etc?

Print this info and take it to your Locksmith:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_do..._about_keys%3F

Best !!!

FrugalNinja250 · August 25th, 2013, 09:10 AM

Some important info:

When a locksmith makes a duplicate of a key the machine cuts the new key to the exact same profile as the original key. If the original is worn out then the dupe will be worn out also. That's why it's so important to keep an original unworn/unused key and use it to make duplicates.

The pregen gas tank lock only has five wafers compared to the six in the seat and helmet locks and the ignition switch.

For a key to work properly the key insertion depth has to be precisely controlled. Because the tank lock only uses the five key lands closest to the tip of the key the tank lock insertion depth is based on a stop in the bottom of the lock. The other lock cylinders use the shoulder on the key up by the head to set insertion depth. This means that the key not only has to be the proper length with the proper lands, but the distance from the shoulder to the tip has to be exact. If it's not, then you wind up with a key that will either work everything but the tank, or a key that only works in the tank lock. Here is more info on this: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/EX250F_key_blanks

All of the locks on the pregen except for the ignition are ridiculously easy to rekey, FWIW, and they're also extremely easy to pick. If you can get the locksmith the helmet or seat lock they can make you a new key pretty easily. They can also do it from the tank lock but there's some trial and error as they will cut the first five lands to work the tank, then cut the last land one step at a time until it works in the other locks as well.

Once you get into your tank you need to remove the filler cap and dismantle it for cleaning. The tank lock should be easy to turn.

August 23rd, 2013, 05:19 PM	#1
BoKing ninjette.org member Name: Bo Location: Albuquerque New Mexico Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 22	Broke key in gas tank The kicker is I knew the old key was getting weak and had a replacement made at a locksmith, but the new key only worked in the gas tank and not the ignition and once I discovered this I never took the time to go back and address it. 1) The old key is turned half-way in. This seems to prevent me from being able to yank it out with tweezers/duct tape. Assuming I cannot grab hold of the broken part of the key (it's flush/flat with the surrounding area preventing me from grabbing it), do I need to have the key turned back to default before attempting to remove it? To clarify: After you put the key in the tank you rotate it 90 degrees to make it open. My old key is broken off in there, turned at a 45 degree angle. 2) What's the best way to remove a broken key? 3) Can a locksmith craft a new key from 2 broken pieces? Thanks in advance. My bike is stuck at the gas station where the key broke in it so timely answers are definitely appreciated.

August 23rd, 2013, 06:33 PM	#2
Motofool Daily Ninjette rider Name: Hernan Location: Florida Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16	Find a way to haul the bike back home; you cannot make it work tonight. ..........Don't try a screwdriver in the ignition switch, it just doesn't work. __________________________________________________ *Motofool* *.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly* "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí

August 25th, 2013, 09:10 AM	#11
FrugalNinja250 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Frugal Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.	Some important info: When a locksmith makes a duplicate of a key the machine cuts the new key to the exact same profile as the original key. If the original is worn out then the dupe will be worn out also. That's why it's so important to keep an original unworn/unused key and use it to make duplicates. The pregen gas tank lock only has five wafers compared to the six in the seat and helmet locks and the ignition switch. For a key to work properly the key insertion depth has to be precisely controlled. Because the tank lock only uses the five key lands closest to the tip of the key the tank lock insertion depth is based on a stop in the bottom of the lock. The other lock cylinders use the shoulder on the key up by the head to set insertion depth. This means that the key not only has to be the proper length with the proper lands, but the distance from the shoulder to the tip has to be exact. If it's not, then you wind up with a key that will either work everything but the tank, or a key that only works in the tank lock. Here is more info on this: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/EX250F_key_blanks All of the locks on the pregen except for the ignition are ridiculously easy to rekey, FWIW, and they're also extremely easy to pick. If you can get the locksmith the helmet or seat lock they can make you a new key pretty easily. They can also do it from the tank lock but there's some trial and error as they will cut the first five lands to work the tank, then cut the last land one step at a time until it works in the other locks as well. Once you get into your tank you need to remove the filler cap and dismantle it for cleaning. The tank lock should be easy to turn.
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

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August 23rd, 2013, 08:47 PM	#3
BoKing ninjette.org member Name: Bo Location: Albuquerque New Mexico Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 22	Ok an update: My brother was able to successfully remove the broken key. While sitting at the gas station he looked at my replica key and determined it was incrementally taller than the original so he took a metal file to it to slim away a millimeter of metal, thinking the replica wasn't engaging the tumblers successfully because of the height difference. It didn't work. Same problem, replica key goes in but doesn't turn. So at this point I have the key out and no key that works and I'm afraid to go to the locksmith without getting the bike towed :/ I'm afraid the locksmith well look at the replica and say "it looks just fine" and without the actual bike be unable to do anything. Ugh.

August 23rd, 2013, 09:27 PM	#5
BoKing ninjette.org member Name: Bo Location: Albuquerque New Mexico Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 22	I'm dreading having to get it towed to the locksmith. Something tells me they're going to need to test a bunch of times on it.

August 23rd, 2013, 09:33 PM	#6
az3200 ninjette.org member Name: AZ Location: Orlando FL Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2002 Ninja 250 Posts: 213	a good locksmith can make a working key without having one to copy.