why the ninja 250 is all you need...

gitoy · August 4th, 2009, 05:33 PM

i have 44k on a couple of 250s and here is why...

CityBike - Ride Fast / Take Chances - The San Francisco Motorcylist Rag - One Hundred K Ninja

Sailariel · August 4th, 2009, 05:47 PM

Excellent article! Gary says it all. People stopped asking me if it is a 500 ever since I had some nice graphics made up--they match the Ninja graphic, and simply say "EX 250 R"

adouglas · August 4th, 2009, 06:56 PM

That ABSOLUTELY nails it.

I've always liked small, light, efficient, well-engineered machinery. Give me handling over horsepower any day of the week.

istreefitty · August 4th, 2009, 07:06 PM

Well that is true but in all honesty if you want all those things....a 600cc ss bike would definately fit the bill as well.

after all the new R6 is only 30-40 lbs more than our new ninjette. Just food for thought.

sofo · August 4th, 2009, 08:01 PM

That article is spot-on. I had times when I wondered if the 250R with it's limited suspension adjustment, acceleration and components would be limiting, but I have since changed my mind completely.

I rode a pre-gen during my MSA course and every thought of a larger bike disappeared when I was taking sweeping highway corners at 10,000RPM on what felt (to me) like a race bike.

Alex · August 4th, 2009, 11:15 PM

I've ridden with GaryJ a number of times. He's hard to keep up with on his ninjette no matter what bike you're trying to keep up with him on. As far as I'm concerned, his experience as detailed in that story, and just from watching him ride for so long, really drives home the point that you don't have to baby a motorcycle engine (or entire motorcycle, for that matter) in order for it to last a surprisingly long time.

adouglas · August 5th, 2009, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by istreefitty

Well that is true but in all honesty if you want all those things....a 600cc ss bike would definately fit the bill as well.

after all the new R6 is only 30-40 lbs more than our new ninjette. Just food for thought.

Yeah, but it's capability you don't need and more likely than not can't use properly anyway. That's precisely the point, and precisely why GaryJ is riding the Ninjette instead of his Gixxer.

So the R6 is 15 percent heavier, costs almost 2.5 times as much to buy, costs WAY more to insure, burns more fuel, uses more expensive consumables (tires) and is less comfortable due to the supersport riding position...

...all basically so you can get up to an unreasonable speed faster. Yes, it's a far more capable bike. But a cold, honest assessment that includes rider skill tells me that it's a waste for the vast majority of us.

In the real world, the 250 will go fast enough to cost you your license. It will outperform most of the vehicles around you. It will go as fast as the conditions allow on most roads.

So why buy an R6 if the Ninjette does what you actually need it to do?

Observing sportbike owners, it strikes me that a great many of them are just as motivated by the fashion statement as anything else. They have to have a 600 because a 250 is "too small." GaryJ's story proves that this is hogwash.

As was pointed out, a small, low-powered bike puts the emphasis on rider skill, which is much more impressive than mere machinery -- provided you're astute enough to realize that it ain't about the bike.

Taking the point of view that "if this is good, why not get something just a little bit 'better'?" is what leads to people buying Suburbans or Hummers when all they really need is a Honda.

Always use the right tool for the job.

mcteague · August 5th, 2009, 05:22 AM

I sold my 250R for a Yamaha FZ6 this Summer. The ninjette's handling was great, as was the look. What was not so nice was the cramped position. My lower back started hurting within 30 minutes. The Corbin seat helped butt comfort a bit but not a lot. The footpeg position made my left knee ache.

The FZ6 fits my 6'1" frame much better. No pains at all so far. Lots more power, better suspension and mirrors that actually show what is behind you. I do miss the 250's flickability and dazzling looks though. It's a shame I don't have room for both bikes.

Tim

adouglas · August 5th, 2009, 05:38 AM

You make a great point and one that is often overlooked.

How a bike fits you is really, really important, and I would argue just as important as anything else about it.

The Ninjette fits me perfectly. I'm 5'7" and have a 30" inseam. My heels are just off the ground at stoplights, unless I hump the tank.

My last bike was slightly higher, and it was a PITA to maneuver in driveways and while parking.

Those who are of average height (males) often just don't get why having a bike that makes getting a foot down easy is such a big deal.

Try this: If you've got, say, a 34-inch inseam, go put a couple of fat phone books on your seat to make it four inches higher and sit on the bike. Now try maneuvering it in a driveway...especially one with even the tiniest incline.

g21-30 · August 5th, 2009, 05:56 AM

I'm 6' 2" (34" inseam) and 200 lbs. After installing Buell foot pegs (1" lower), the bike fits me perfectly. My thighs fit just below the gas tank and I ride on the balls of my feet, except when shifting or braking. U-turns are easy.

almost40 · August 5th, 2009, 08:07 AM

I would have to agree, a great article.
Nothing better than saying its only a 250 at a trackday. I love the looks on the faces of the "big bike" boys when I say that. You get alot of respect as a rider when you pass them.
Ive heard more than a few conversations at the track about the trick suspension parts, power commanders and how much horsepower there making.
These are the same guys that make there way over to visit me, and play 20 questions with me about my "little" 250. Most leave thinking its not the mods on there bikes but the rider.
A quick look back while riding the track and you will see a few of them trying to keep up and learn something.

paterick4o8 · August 5th, 2009, 08:48 AM

I've seen Gary J's bikes before as he's a local to the area. I overheard him talking during a lunch break on a ride about his 100K+ ninja. It's nice to know these bikes can go the distance

SpyderGirl · August 5th, 2009, 09:32 AM

I love my lil ninjette.

minuslars · August 5th, 2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adouglas

You make a great point and one that is often overlooked.

How a bike fits you is really, really important, and I would argue just as important as anything else about it.

The Ninjette fits me perfectly. I'm 5'7" and have a 30" inseam. My heels are just off the ground at stoplights, unless I hump the tank.

My last bike was slightly higher, and it was a PITA to maneuver in driveways and while parking.

Those who are of average height (males) often just don't get why having a bike that makes getting a foot down easy is such a big deal.

Try this: If you've got, say, a 34-inch inseam, go put a couple of fat phone books on your seat to make it four inches higher and sit on the bike. Now try maneuvering it in a driveway...especially one with even the tiniest incline.

Yeah I've backed up a friend's SV650 out of a parking space and up an incline before, lol. It was not fun - all tip toe. I'm the same height as you, but I think that bikes have varying levels of preload adjusted by the dealer. It was there I found another SV650, same year, that I could flat foot it on while sitting. That one or two inch flexibility allowed by the preload adjustment can make all the difference;. The SV650 right next to it was set a little higher, and I had to tip toe it. The height is an issue but there is something that can be done about it.

I think my '03 ninja was perfect for me starting out though, even though there's plenty of height to spare when I'm sitting on it. And I can certainly see myself having the ninja 250 as a sole bike. I think aesthetics does play a role though. If you have a newgen, you're set. My pregen isn't bad looking, but it doesn't quite do it for me. Being a lifelong V8 driver, I also appreciate a good meaty exhaust sound. I can't criticize people for wanting different aesthetics, higher quality parts / performance, and not to mention

FUEL INJECTION

from the factory. Plus, some simple maintenance things are easier. All the newer, bigger bikes have easily accessible headlamp bulbs, for example. You can actually see the back of the bulbs from the saddle. I don't know how it is with the newgen, but with the pregen there's a lot of "squeeze your hand up here, feel for this clip, pull on that, twist there, and repeat to install new bulb. If you have trouble, remove fairing."

I LOVE my ninjette, but I'm just saying, lol.

Bill N · August 5th, 2009, 02:41 PM

Really good article, hit so many interesting topics. I've been on bigger bikes for romps in the country and had the really slow guys at the stops blaming their tires, suspension, whatever. Hey they were going so slow none of those things mattered. But hey they've read magazine articles stressing those points. So many Sport bike riders don't understand that on the streets you cannot safely use the bikes' full potential yet they have the stickyest tires that wear quickly, ride in an uncomfortable position, and have rock hard shocks. Fine for the track but a waste on the street.
Cheers, Bill

ASecretNinja · August 5th, 2009, 04:58 PM

Playing devil's advocate, because it's what I do best. I'd bet that the majority of people on here that have cars opted for a larger engine size than the base model. I know I did with my truck (5.2L V8). So everyone can pat eachother on the back and cheer hurrah because you have a 250 bike, just don't mention that V8 you have sitting in your driveway/garage right? Because functionally, a V6 does everything a V8 does AND it does it more efficiently. I'd be extremely interested in what "GaryJ" has in his garage along the lines of 4 wheels..

Secondly, this article seems to completely ignore the great offering of 650cc Vtwins out there, such as the Suzuki Gladius/SV650, the FZ6R and even the Ducatti mini monster. These offer much more useable power, and are priced between super sports and a brand new ninjette.

I don't doubt that GaryJ has some skill riding. But I'd challenge him to keep up with my friend's litre bike in our local mountain area. The little 250 just can't handle the elevation change. Just last night I was at about 10k RPM in 4th with the throttle pegged, and considering dropping down to 3rd because 4th was not cutting it. Anyone familiar with Laguna Seca and the Corkscrew? This is basically similar in concept: a WIDE sweeping 270 degree turn that rapidly increases in elevation when going up. I was busting my ass the whole way around this turn while my friend on his brand new ZX-10R is following me (I was leading because I know the area). So we get to the top of the hill and he's like "you were working that thing pretty hard" and I was like "yea no ****" and he goes "yea, I was just cruising in 2nd the whole way, and I was gonna pass you but I didn't wanna make you feel bad." So basically while I'm saying the 250 is a great bike, and I have a hell of a lot of fun on mine, I'm definitely looking forward to the potential that a 600 has to offer once I step up. I felt that this article had a major flaw by neglecting to mention the V-twin 650 offerings which have more in common with the ninjette than the supersports at a much more competitive price. I mean, reading this article one comes away from it thinking that there are only two different displacements on bikes (not counting his brief mention of his GSXR750): 1000 or 250.

adouglas · August 5th, 2009, 05:00 PM

I drive a Honda Fit.

Like I said, the right tool for the job, always....

I don't need no V8.

I just don't buy into the "need" for power unless it's real. If I were hauling a big trailer, or actually carrying nine kids all the time, then sure, I'd buy a big vehicle. But I don't.

You can do amazing things with small vehicles if you don't succumb to propaganda and conventional wisdom.

When I was a kid we had a lake house in NC and trailed a 16' Boston Whaler with an 85 HP Johnson on it behind a CJ-3B Jeep Universal with a 72 horsepower engine. No problem.

http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/Hurricane.html

I play bass in a 5 piece band. I can (and do) carry ALL of my band's amps/PA, plus my two basses, in my Fit with a Thule pod on top.

In "theory" I should be driving a van, no?

Pfeh. I get 40 mpg unloaded, and I STILL get 32 laden with all that gear.

Use a little imagination and amazing things are possible.

The 250 IS ENOUGH if you're skilled enough to use it!

kkim · August 5th, 2009, 05:08 PM

it's a mindset... if you have it, enjoy it, if you don't, good luck trying to understand or accept it... but it's coming, you just don't know it yet.

ASecretNinja · August 5th, 2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adouglas

Edited for space

You sir, are the exception to the rule. There is no mystery why this country consumes 20 million barrels of oil per day.

adouglas · August 5th, 2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASecretNinja

You sir, are the exception to the rule. There is no mystery why this country consumes 20 million barrels of oil per day.

I take that as a great compliment. Thank you!

I always have been way off on the end of the bell curve, in all sorts of ways.

It's pretty cool out here, actually....

Some day it would be good to meet GaryJ. I think I'd like him a lot.

almost40 · August 5th, 2009, 06:10 PM

20 million barrels a day?
I dont care about gas mileage. Now saftey, thats a whole different story. Wonder what that Honda would look if a guy in an Suburban crossed the centerline and hit it head on? Can you say meatwaffles? If I choose to have a 2500 Chevy 4x4 with an 8.1 liter motor that gets 12 MPG on its best day and is over 5 tons. Thats my right as an American. If that same Suburban crosses the centerline you have alot better chance in my truck. Cry me a river about not having the right tool for the job. Guess thats what makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside.
Dont break your arm patting yourself on the back for being a good steward to the enviroment. You might just end up on life support after they pick you out of the grill of a Suburban. That is, if you live.
The point being, the right tool for the job is all in how you view the job.
My job is survival not getting 32 MPG.
As far as a V-6 doing everything a V-8 does guess that another one of those depends on what the job is. If your trying to get those MPG's guess you might be right. I perfer to have the extra weight and steel in between me and that Suburban.

istreefitty · August 5th, 2009, 06:35 PM

^ def has a good point. I can gaurentee you all that equipment in your fit is definately not safe. However, the V6-V8 point is pretty good. Now adays you can get a small block V6 <4 liters that is producing over 300 hp.........even on an American vehicle. As far as the 250 being the right tool for the right job, I have no doubt that at my skill level I would do nothing but get into trouble on anything bigger. That said, you may not be able to utilize a 600cc or heck any of the V-twin bigger bikes (ninja 650, FZ6R, SV650,ect) to their full potential, but it is def easy to utilize the 250r to the max (not by me of course). We all loved the article, but lets not forget the guy owns a busa on the side. Now lets all think about this, you are old, you have been riding liter bikes your whole life and have already tested its limits, so you know about it, which do you choose to enjoy yourself on a Sunday road, your busa or a comfy 250?? That to me sounds like what GaryJ has in mind. It just so happens that a lot of scrubbs (prob many ride with this guy) get a 600cc+ bike and dont know how to use it. Hands down equally skilled riders OBVIOUSLY the 600cc would win, and that my friend is the real need for power. If anything can be done better and more efficiently, is that not a plus??

Sailariel · August 5th, 2009, 07:03 PM

We just bought a Pontiac Vibe with a 1.8L 4Cyl engine. It is front wheel drive and has a 5Sp manual transmission. It is basically the same car as a Toyota Matrix. On the highway we get 39 to 40 mpg. We also have a 95 Suburban, 3/4 Ton, two wheel drive, with a 6.5 Turbo Diesel which we inherited from my wife`s father. It is in mint condition and has every option. He used it to pull a 30 foot RV. It gets 18mpg highway. We are keeping it because the resale value on a rig that big is terrible. There is a fellow here who pulls a trailer with a couple race cars who expressed an interest, but offered little. I`ll keep it and will just not use it much. I like small. For a car, the Vibe is the right tool, and for a bike, the Ninjette does it all---including touring.

adouglas · August 5th, 2009, 07:32 PM

Almost40...

Chill.

Please.

If driving a tank does it for you, great.

Applause. I'm glad you're happy with your enormous truck.

If sheer mass is the sole consideration for you when buying a vehicle, then by all means, go drive whatever you want. It is absolutely your right as an American, and I absolutely respect that.

But that doesn't mean I have to drive one, too, or think as you do.

That is MY right as an American.

Like I said, if I had a REAL REASON to drive a big vehicle, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. I don't hate big vehicles. Far from it.

I have to wonder, though, since you've latched onto the safety thing regarding vehicle size and weight... given that even the biggest, baddest bike out there would lose 100 percent of the time in a head-on with even the smallest, wimpiest car....

Why are you riding a bike in the first place?

Using the "bigger is better" logic, a motorcycle ought to be the last thing on earth you'd want to trust your body to, right?

I was just expressing my POV about big vs. small machines, which is obviously different from yours. I simply value different things.

I respect your POV. Please respect mine.

No hate here, just a different take.

Peace.

'nuff said.

Rayme · August 5th, 2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by almost40

20 million barrels a day?
I dont care about gas mileage. Now saftey, thats a whole different story. Wonder what that Honda would look if a guy in an Suburban crossed the centerline and hit it head on? Can you say meatwaffles? If I choose to have a 2500 Chevy 4x4 with an 8.1 liter motor that gets 12 MPG on its best day and is over 5 tons. Thats my right as an American. If that same Suburban crosses the centerline you have alot better chance in my truck. Cry me a river about not having the right tool for the job. Guess thats what makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside.
Dont break your arm patting yourself on the back for being a good steward to the enviroment. You might just end up on life support after they pick you out of the grill of a Suburban. That is, if you live.
The point being, the right tool for the job is all in how you view the job.
My job is survival not getting 32 MPG.
As far as a V-6 doing everything a V-8 does guess that another one of those depends on what the job is. If your trying to get those MPG's guess you might be right. I perfer to have the extra weight and steel in between me and that Suburban.

hehe seriously? And you drive a bike?

I hope there was un-detected sarcasm in there.

Back on topic, the lack of torque from a stand still and constant speed shifting in town is pretty much what bugs me with the ninjette, and I do feel a little cramped on it though i'm average 5"10... I'm still eyeing the SV's.

almost40 · August 5th, 2009, 09:02 PM

I think you missed my point. It wasnt a Jab at you.
Safety is the job im trying to fufill with my vehicle. Not fuel mileage.
I could care less what car you drive. I didnt mean to offend.

My job = protecting me and mine from point A to B
Tool = 10,000 lbs+ of American pick-up.

Now as a sidebar, I own a 2009 Cobalt SS which I rarely drive. (mostly in town)
I fly solo in the Cobalt on the highway, because I dont feel its safe enough to transport my son or daughter.
If im pulling onto the highway where they drive like they are possesed. Give me my 5 ton tank. Your alot more likely to survive in that around here.

As far as the bike goes. Mine isnt even street legal.

<----- TRACK BIKE

No crazy, cell phone texting, maniacs there. Its a controlled enviroment with paramedics ready to assist 100 yards away.
I feel pretty safe.

Cedilla · August 7th, 2009, 12:41 AM

The main reason that huge truck is safer is because of other people with the same mindset. The streets would be much much safer if people were not commuting to work by themselves in giant trucks and SUVs, but I support anyone's right to drive what ever they want to, even though they are compromising my safety in exchange for their own.

karlosdajackal · August 7th, 2009, 01:18 AM

Actually a big SUV is not that much safer, even a tiny Smart car can survive an impact with 25 tonnes of concrete at 70mph

Link to original page on YouTube.

Trouble is the occupants of a smart or a big suv are not likely to survive the g-forces placed on there bodies, airbags help a bit, seatbelts help a bit more, both used together help a huge amount, but your chances are still pretty slim.

In fact SUVs are probably more dangerous due to the increased risk of rollover

Want to see what a 4x4 looks like crashing into a people carrier, give me a people carrier any day?

Link to original page on YouTube.

Couldn't find a video on youtube, but on that same show they did an emergency lane changing swerve with a 4x4 at 50mph and the car 4x4 ended up on its roof. If you really want a safe car look at the euro ncap safety test videos, or whatever the USA equivalent is. Bigger/heavier is not better, as it can't absorb energy its just passes it to the driver and you internal organs flying around inside your body is what kills you. Smaller lighter and build to deform and absorb the impact while also keeping a safety cell around the passengers is far superior. Your less likely to get crushed and less energy will be pass through to you.

andrewexd · August 7th, 2009, 01:54 AM

^ this is kind of interesting because there's also a debate about SNELL certification. Opposers say the SNELL rating makes helmets too hard so they crack like an egg where as a DOT only helmet would crush and crumple like... a soda can or something. There was a now [in]famous article from motorcyclist and they did a test on a bunch of helmets including expensive shoei, arai, suomy etc. Results showed the cheap Z1R DOT only helmet took the least damage to the head while harder materials like fiberglass and Snell approved helmets took more damage to the head.

heres the link if anyone wants to read.
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...iew/index.html

while I agree the 250 is enough for anyone, I will definitely upgrade because I have a 20 mile commute on the freeway and im not a fan of screaming at 10k rpms all day.

mcteague · August 7th, 2009, 04:31 AM

Sorry to be part of the topic drift but, what the hell...

As others have already mentioned, SUVs are not all that safe. I don't think I've ever seen a car on it's side after a crash but have seen many SUVs in this position. On top of that, they further compromise the safety of regular cars by blocking their view and putting a bumper at nearly eyeball level.

Saying huge vehicles were purchased for safety sounds like guys who make the same claim for loud pipes. It's really about ego...that whole "look at me" thing. I just don't get it.

Tim

CC Cowboy · August 7th, 2009, 05:20 AM

I thought the 250 was strictly a stunt bike. After a few wheelies, a few stoppies, and a ton of tickets for loud pipes, burnouts, excessive speed I have a different opinion.

adouglas · August 7th, 2009, 05:40 AM

On an otherwise level playing field, mass wins. This is obvious.

But it's not as simple as that. A smaller, lighter, more nimble vehicle may (MAY) be able to avoid the crash in the first place. Doesn't mean it will. (BMW actually used this as an argument in an advertising campaign a few years ago.)

All that mass means a lot of momentum, and that means it's difficult to get it to change direction and stop, particularly in slippery conditions. This is simple physics and is indisputable.

I live in the Northeast, and it's almost a cliche at this point... the first big snowstorm every year, the vehicles you see having spun out are mostly large SUVs and pickups. This is anecdotal, however, and should not be trusted. (Personally I blame lack of driver understanding, but that's a different discussion.)

Equipment and vehicle design is a very important factor in how well the passengers fare in a crash. So... let's take it out of the realm of assertion and commonly held belief and into the realm of experimentally derived data, gathered under fair, consistent conditions.

Go to the NHTSA website (http://www.safecar.gov) and check the data. The crash tests are standardized, so it's possible to compare apples to apples. Let go of preconceived notions and look at the actual results.

Look up the 2006 Chevy Silverado (the badge name of the Chevy 2500, and as near as I can tell the last year they offered the 8.1 liter engine).

Front driver rating: Four stars (out of five)
Front passenger rating: Three stars
Side driver rating: Not tested
Side rear passenger rating: Not tested
Rollover 2 wheel drive rating: Four stars
Rollover 4 wheel drive rating: Four stars

Not bad, actually.

Then look up my car... the 2007 Honda Fit, which has ABS, traction control, dual-stage front airbags, side airbags, curtain airbags and seat belt tensioners.

Front driver rating: FIVE stars (out of five)
Front passenger rating: FIVE stars
Side driver rating: FIVE stars
Side rear passenger rating: Three stars
Rollover 2 wheel drive rating: Four stars
Rollover 4 wheel drive rating: Not applicable

Conclusion: When factors OTHER than mass and size are taken into account, you can get greater survivability through the use of safety technology and design.

I'm not just beating my breast about whether my choice of vehicle is "better" than yours (a faulty concept anyway...I like my car and you like your truck, and that's all that matters). I'm just looking at objective data that directly compares one vehicle to the other.

I feel quite safe in my Fit. Doesn't mean you would.

In the interest of fairness I should note that if you look up the latest Silverado (not available with the 8.1 liter, so not the truck we're talking about here) you get better results. They ARE doing a better job these days. But that doesn't negate the fact that a well-designed and well-equipped smaller car CAN protect you adequately in a crash.

NaughtyusMaximus · August 7th, 2009, 05:50 PM

Some of you guys might be interested in these links regarding vehicle safety:

http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html

http://bridger.us/2002/12/16/CrashTe...perVsFordF150/

Coles notes:
The better maneuverability of smaller vehicles means you're less likely to get into that head on accident with a large vehicle in the first place.

istreefitty · August 7th, 2009, 08:37 PM

wow this thread took 2 right turns lol

Back to the topic, I agree with what andrewexd. Highway speeds at 9k rpms is not ideal. I can promise anyone that if they made the 500 look as good as the 250 I would buy because that is all someone would need ( I am part of the group of riders that chose the 250 over a SV650 or a buel blast because of the aesthetics and wonderful forum here)

andrewexd · August 7th, 2009, 10:26 PM

^ true. I would get a 500 if it wasn't so outdated... I was thinking of getting a sv650 or ninja 650 but I chose not to and my dad would allow it lol ( i didnt even bother asking he wanted me to get a harley/cruiser he rides a harley

) .... If I upgrade early I will probably go to a ninja 650, if I upgrade later probably to a 600 super sport.

sofo · August 8th, 2009, 09:15 AM

An updated 500R would be a very interesting bike. Both in terms of it's place in Kawasaki's line, as well as it's effect on 250R and 650R sales.

I'd like to see a Z500. Bring back the Z750/Z1000 styling but with a detuned ZX-6R engine. Not likely to happen I know, but that would be a fantastic bike.

If the Ninja 250 is all you need, what's lacking to make it what you want? Is there just a chasm between need and the silly want of a middleweight or 1000cc supersport?

andrewexd · August 8th, 2009, 11:27 PM

I don't think I Would ever buy a liter sport bike... 1. they are scary, and 2. 600 is enough!

muffinman · August 11th, 2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by almost40

20 million barrels a day?
I dont care about gas mileage. Now saftey, thats a whole different story. Wonder what that Honda would look if a guy in an Suburban crossed the centerline and hit it head on? Can you say meatwaffles? If I choose to have a 2500 Chevy 4x4 with an 8.1 liter motor that gets 12 MPG on its best day and is over 5 tons. Thats my right as an American. If that same Suburban crosses the centerline you have alot better chance in my truck.

Right, 'cuz the chances of a Suburban crossing the center lines and crashing into you head-on are so much greater than you not being able to stop your 5-ton death machine in time to avoid crashing into an obstacle, or you rolling the truck over because your truck can't take a corner or swerve at more than 10 mph without freaking out. Yup.

AnarchoMoltov · August 11th, 2009, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by almost40

20 million barrels a day?
I dont care about gas mileage. Now saftey, thats a whole different story. Wonder what that Honda would look if a guy in an Suburban crossed the centerline and hit it head on? Can you say meatwaffles? If I choose to have a 2500 Chevy 4x4 with an 8.1 liter motor that gets 12 MPG on its best day and is over 5 tons. Thats my right as an American. If that same Suburban crosses the centerline you have alot better chance in my truck. Cry me a river about not having the right tool for the job. Guess thats what makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside.
Dont break your arm patting yourself on the back for being a good steward to the enviroment. You might just end up on life support after they pick you out of the grill of a Suburban. That is, if you live.
The point being, the right tool for the job is all in how you view the job.
My job is survival not getting 32 MPG.
As far as a V-6 doing everything a V-8 does guess that another one of those depends on what the job is. If your trying to get those MPG's guess you might be right. I perfer to have the extra weight and steel in between me and that Suburban.

Thank u for that rant Sean Hannity, I mean Rush Limbaugh..I mean ah nevermind...

Daeldren · August 11th, 2009, 02:09 AM

Wait a min, I thought you needed the power to weight ratio of an Indy car to pass traffic comfortably?

August 4th, 2009, 05:33 PM	#1
gitoy ninjette.org guru Name: gitoy Location: rpv, ca Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 04 ninja 250, 05 zzr 600 (sold), 07 cbr600rr Posts: 319	why the ninja 250 is all you need... i have 44k on a couple of 250s and here is why... CityBike - Ride Fast / Take Chances - The San Francisco Motorcylist Rag - One Hundred K Ninja

August 4th, 2009, 07:06 PM	#4
istreefitty sir posts a lot Name: michael Location: HI Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Black 250R Posts: 267	Well that is true but in all honesty if you want all those things....a 600cc ss bike would definately fit the bill as well. after all the new R6 is only 30-40 lbs more than our new ninjette. Just food for thought. __________________________________________________ A girl walks into a bar and orders a "double entendre" So the bartender gave it to her "once you go black, you never go back." Last futzed with by istreefitty; August 4th, 2009 at 08:11 PM.

August 4th, 2009, 11:15 PM	#6
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	I've ridden with GaryJ a number of times. He's hard to keep up with on his ninjette no matter what bike you're trying to keep up with him on. As far as I'm concerned, his experience as detailed in that story, and just from watching him ride for so long, really drives home the point that you don't have to baby a motorcycle engine (or entire motorcycle, for that matter) in order for it to last a surprisingly long time. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

August 5th, 2009, 08:07 AM	#11
almost40 ninjette.org Monkey Spank Name: Kevin Location: Illinois Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.	I would have to agree, a great article. Nothing better than saying its only a 250 at a trackday. I love the looks on the faces of the "big bike" boys when I say that. You get alot of respect as a rider when you pass them. Ive heard more than a few conversations at the track about the trick suspension parts, power commanders and how much horsepower there making. These are the same guys that make there way over to visit me, and play 20 questions with me about my "little" 250. Most leave thinking its not the mods on there bikes but the rider. A quick look back while riding the track and you will see a few of them trying to keep up and learn something. __________________________________________________ Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket

August 5th, 2009, 09:32 AM	#13
SpyderGirl 3 for street, 2 for dirt Name: Katlyn Location: San Francisco Bay Area (California) Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Can Am Spyder PE #1344 / 2009 Kawi KLX140L Monster Energy / 2009 Kawi Ninja 250R (RIP 8.23.09) Posts: 586	I love my lil ninjette. __________________________________________________ Feel free to look me up on facebook.

August 4th, 2009, 05:47 PM	#2
Sailariel ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Alex Location: Belfast, ME Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	Excellent article! Gary says it all. People stopped asking me if it is a 500 ever since I had some nice graphics made up--they match the Ninja graphic, and simply say "EX 250 R"

August 4th, 2009, 06:56 PM	#3
adouglas Cat herder Name: Gort Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 6 MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13	That ABSOLUTELY nails it. I've always liked small, light, efficient, well-engineered machinery. Give me handling over horsepower any day of the week.

August 4th, 2009, 08:01 PM	#5
sofo ninjette.org guru Name: Andrew Location: Vancouver, BC Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 410	That article is spot-on. I had times when I wondered if the 250R with it's limited suspension adjustment, acceleration and components would be limiting, but I have since changed my mind completely. I rode a pre-gen during my MSA course and every thought of a larger bike disappeared when I was taking sweeping highway corners at 10,000RPM on what felt (to me) like a race bike.

August 5th, 2009, 05:22 AM	#8
mcteague ninjette.org member Name: Tim Location: Maryland Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Yamaha FZ6 Posts: 117	I sold my 250R for a Yamaha FZ6 this Summer. The ninjette's handling was great, as was the look. What was not so nice was the cramped position. My lower back started hurting within 30 minutes. The Corbin seat helped butt comfort a bit but not a lot. The footpeg position made my left knee ache. The FZ6 fits my 6'1" frame much better. No pains at all so far. Lots more power, better suspension and mirrors that actually show what is behind you. I do miss the 250's flickability and dazzling looks though. It's a shame I don't have room for both bikes. Tim

August 5th, 2009, 05:38 AM	#9
adouglas Cat herder Name: Gort Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 6 MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13	You make a great point and one that is often overlooked. How a bike fits you is really, really important, and I would argue just as important as anything else about it. The Ninjette fits me perfectly. I'm 5'7" and have a 30" inseam. My heels are just off the ground at stoplights, unless I hump the tank. My last bike was slightly higher, and it was a PITA to maneuver in driveways and while parking. Those who are of average height (males) often just don't get why having a bike that makes getting a foot down easy is such a big deal. Try this: If you've got, say, a 34-inch inseam, go put a couple of fat phone books on your seat to make it four inches higher and sit on the bike. Now try maneuvering it in a driveway...especially one with even the tiniest incline.

August 5th, 2009, 05:56 AM	#10
g21-30 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sam Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 and ZX-12R 2000 Posts: A lot.	I'm 6' 2" (34" inseam) and 200 lbs. After installing Buell foot pegs (1" lower), the bike fits me perfectly. My thighs fit just below the gas tank and I ride on the balls of my feet, except when shifting or braking. U-turns are easy.

August 5th, 2009, 08:48 AM	#12
paterick4o8 ninjette.org sage Name: patricK Location: San Jose, CA--BAY AREA! Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 blue 250R [sold]. '09 lime ZX-6R [stolen :( ]. '06 blue 636. Posts: 918	I've seen Gary J's bikes before as he's a local to the area. I overheard him talking during a lunch break on a ride about his 100K+ ninja. It's nice to know these bikes can go the distance

August 5th, 2009, 02:41 PM	#15
Bill N ninjette.org member Name: Bill Location: Tampa Fl Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 250 Ninja Posts: 180	Really good article, hit so many interesting topics. I've been on bigger bikes for romps in the country and had the really slow guys at the stops blaming their tires, suspension, whatever. Hey they were going so slow none of those things mattered. But hey they've read magazine articles stressing those points. So many Sport bike riders don't understand that on the streets you cannot safely use the bikes' full potential yet they have the stickyest tires that wear quickly, ride in an uncomfortable position, and have rock hard shocks. Fine for the track but a waste on the street. Cheers, Bill

August 5th, 2009, 04:58 PM	#16
ASecretNinja ATGATT Squid Killer Name: Chad Location: So. Cal Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): '06 CBR600 Posts: 189	Playing devil's advocate, because it's what I do best. I'd bet that the majority of people on here that have cars opted for a larger engine size than the base model. I know I did with my truck (5.2L V8). So everyone can pat eachother on the back and cheer hurrah because you have a 250 bike, just don't mention that V8 you have sitting in your driveway/garage right? Because functionally, a V6 does everything a V8 does AND it does it more efficiently. I'd be extremely interested in what "GaryJ" has in his garage along the lines of 4 wheels.. Secondly, this article seems to completely ignore the great offering of 650cc Vtwins out there, such as the Suzuki Gladius/SV650, the FZ6R and even the Ducatti mini monster. These offer much more useable power, and are priced between super sports and a brand new ninjette. I don't doubt that GaryJ has some skill riding. But I'd challenge him to keep up with my friend's litre bike in our local mountain area. The little 250 just can't handle the elevation change. Just last night I was at about 10k RPM in 4th with the throttle pegged, and considering dropping down to 3rd because 4th was not cutting it. Anyone familiar with Laguna Seca and the Corkscrew? This is basically similar in concept: a WIDE sweeping 270 degree turn that rapidly increases in elevation when going up. I was busting my ass the whole way around this turn while my friend on his brand new ZX-10R is following me (I was leading because I know the area). So we get to the top of the hill and he's like "you were working that thing pretty hard" and I was like "yea no ****" and he goes "yea, I was just cruising in 2nd the whole way, and I was gonna pass you but I didn't wanna make you feel bad." So basically while I'm saying the 250 is a great bike, and I have a hell of a lot of fun on mine, I'm definitely looking forward to the potential that a 600 has to offer once I step up. I felt that this article had a major flaw by neglecting to mention the V-twin 650 offerings which have more in common with the ninjette than the supersports at a much more competitive price. I mean, reading this article one comes away from it thinking that there are only two different displacements on bikes (not counting his brief mention of his GSXR750): 1000 or 250.

August 5th, 2009, 05:00 PM	#17
adouglas Cat herder Name: Gort Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 6 MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13	I drive a Honda Fit. Like I said, the right tool for the job, always.... I don't need no V8. I just don't buy into the "need" for power unless it's real. If I were hauling a big trailer, or actually carrying nine kids all the time, then sure, I'd buy a big vehicle. But I don't. You can do amazing things with small vehicles if you don't succumb to propaganda and conventional wisdom. When I was a kid we had a lake house in NC and trailed a 16' Boston Whaler with an 85 HP Johnson on it behind a CJ-3B Jeep Universal with a 72 horsepower engine. No problem. http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/Hurricane.html I play bass in a 5 piece band. I can (and do) carry ALL of my band's amps/PA, plus my two basses, in my Fit with a Thule pod on top. In "theory" I should be driving a van, no? Pfeh. I get 40 mpg unloaded, and I STILL get 32 laden with all that gear. Use a little imagination and amazing things are possible. The 250 IS ENOUGH if you're skilled enough to use it!

August 5th, 2009, 05:08 PM	#18
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	it's a mindset... if you have it, enjoy it, if you don't, good luck trying to understand or accept it... but it's coming, you just don't know it yet.

August 5th, 2009, 06:10 PM	#21
almost40 ninjette.org Monkey Spank Name: Kevin Location: Illinois Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.	20 million barrels a day? I dont care about gas mileage. Now saftey, thats a whole different story. Wonder what that Honda would look if a guy in an Suburban crossed the centerline and hit it head on? Can you say meatwaffles? If I choose to have a 2500 Chevy 4x4 with an 8.1 liter motor that gets 12 MPG on its best day and is over 5 tons. Thats my right as an American. If that same Suburban crosses the centerline you have alot better chance in my truck. Cry me a river about not having the right tool for the job. Guess thats what makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside. Dont break your arm patting yourself on the back for being a good steward to the enviroment. You might just end up on life support after they pick you out of the grill of a Suburban. That is, if you live. The point being, the right tool for the job is all in how you view the job. My job is survival not getting 32 MPG. As far as a V-6 doing everything a V-8 does guess that another one of those depends on what the job is. If your trying to get those MPG's guess you might be right. I perfer to have the extra weight and steel in between me and that Suburban. __________________________________________________ Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket

August 5th, 2009, 06:35 PM	#22
istreefitty sir posts a lot Name: michael Location: HI Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Black 250R Posts: 267	^ def has a good point. I can gaurentee you all that equipment in your fit is definately not safe. However, the V6-V8 point is pretty good. Now adays you can get a small block V6 <4 liters that is producing over 300 hp.........even on an American vehicle. As far as the 250 being the right tool for the right job, I have no doubt that at my skill level I would do nothing but get into trouble on anything bigger. That said, you may not be able to utilize a 600cc or heck any of the V-twin bigger bikes (ninja 650, FZ6R, SV650,ect) to their full potential, but it is def easy to utilize the 250r to the max (not by me of course). We all loved the article, but lets not forget the guy owns a busa on the side. Now lets all think about this, you are old, you have been riding liter bikes your whole life and have already tested its limits, so you know about it, which do you choose to enjoy yourself on a Sunday road, your busa or a comfy 250?? That to me sounds like what GaryJ has in mind. It just so happens that a lot of scrubbs (prob many ride with this guy) get a 600cc+ bike and dont know how to use it. Hands down equally skilled riders OBVIOUSLY the 600cc would win, and that my friend is the real need for power. If anything can be done better and more efficiently, is that not a plus?? __________________________________________________ A girl walks into a bar and orders a "double entendre" So the bartender gave it to her "once you go black, you never go back."

August 5th, 2009, 07:03 PM	#23
Sailariel ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Alex Location: Belfast, ME Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	We just bought a Pontiac Vibe with a 1.8L 4Cyl engine. It is front wheel drive and has a 5Sp manual transmission. It is basically the same car as a Toyota Matrix. On the highway we get 39 to 40 mpg. We also have a 95 Suburban, 3/4 Ton, two wheel drive, with a 6.5 Turbo Diesel which we inherited from my wife`s father. It is in mint condition and has every option. He used it to pull a 30 foot RV. It gets 18mpg highway. We are keeping it because the resale value on a rig that big is terrible. There is a fellow here who pulls a trailer with a couple race cars who expressed an interest, but offered little. I`ll keep it and will just not use it much. I like small. For a car, the Vibe is the right tool, and for a bike, the Ninjette does it all---including touring.

August 5th, 2009, 07:32 PM	#24
adouglas Cat herder Name: Gort Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 6 MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13	Almost40... Chill. Please. If driving a tank does it for you, great. Applause. I'm glad you're happy with your enormous truck. If sheer mass is the sole consideration for you when buying a vehicle, then by all means, go drive whatever you want. It is absolutely your right as an American, and I absolutely respect that. But that doesn't mean I have to drive one, too, or think as you do. That is MY right as an American. Like I said, if I had a REAL REASON to drive a big vehicle, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. I don't hate big vehicles. Far from it. I have to wonder, though, since you've latched onto the safety thing regarding vehicle size and weight... given that even the biggest, baddest bike out there would lose 100 percent of the time in a head-on with even the smallest, wimpiest car.... Why are you riding a bike in the first place? Using the "bigger is better" logic, a motorcycle ought to be the last thing on earth you'd want to trust your body to, right? I was just expressing my POV about big vs. small machines, which is obviously different from yours. I simply value different things. I respect your POV. Please respect mine. No hate here, just a different take. Peace. 'nuff said.

August 5th, 2009, 09:02 PM	#26
almost40 ninjette.org Monkey Spank Name: Kevin Location: Illinois Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.	I think you missed my point. It wasnt a Jab at you. Safety is the job im trying to fufill with my vehicle. Not fuel mileage. I could care less what car you drive. I didnt mean to offend. My job = protecting me and mine from point A to B Tool = 10,000 lbs+ of American pick-up. Now as a sidebar, I own a 2009 Cobalt SS which I rarely drive. (mostly in town) I fly solo in the Cobalt on the highway, because I dont feel its safe enough to transport my son or daughter. If im pulling onto the highway where they drive like they are possesed. Give me my 5 ton tank. Your alot more likely to survive in that around here. As far as the bike goes. Mine isnt even street legal. <----- TRACK BIKE No crazy, cell phone texting, maniacs there. Its a controlled enviroment with paramedics ready to assist 100 yards away. I feel pretty safe. __________________________________________________ Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket

August 7th, 2009, 12:41 AM	#27
Cedilla ninjette.org sage Name: Chris Location: Huntsville, AL Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 (sold) Posts: 755	The main reason that huge truck is safer is because of other people with the same mindset. The streets would be much much safer if people were not commuting to work by themselves in giant trucks and SUVs, but I support anyone's right to drive what ever they want to, even though they are compromising my safety in exchange for their own.

August 7th, 2009, 01:18 AM	#28
karlosdajackal ninjette.org guru Name: Karl Location: Ireland the Hawaii of Europe! Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R Fuel Injected Model 2009 Posts: 357	Actually a big SUV is not that much safer, even a tiny Smart car can survive an impact with 25 tonnes of concrete at 70mph Link to original page on YouTube. Trouble is the occupants of a smart or a big suv are not likely to survive the g-forces placed on there bodies, airbags help a bit, seatbelts help a bit more, both used together help a huge amount, but your chances are still pretty slim. In fact SUVs are probably more dangerous due to the increased risk of rollover Want to see what a 4x4 looks like crashing into a people carrier, give me a people carrier any day? Link to original page on YouTube. Couldn't find a video on youtube, but on that same show they did an emergency lane changing swerve with a 4x4 at 50mph and the car 4x4 ended up on its roof. If you really want a safe car look at the euro ncap safety test videos, or whatever the USA equivalent is. Bigger/heavier is not better, as it can't absorb energy its just passes it to the driver and you internal organs flying around inside your body is what kills you. Smaller lighter and build to deform and absorb the impact while also keeping a safety cell around the passengers is far superior. Your less likely to get crushed and less energy will be pass through to you. Last futzed with by Alex; August 7th, 2009 at 06:05 AM. Reason: embedded the videos

August 7th, 2009, 01:54 AM	#29
andrewexd ninjette.org guru Name: Andrew Location: LA Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 07 GSXR600 (N250 sold :( ) Posts: 415	^ this is kind of interesting because there's also a debate about SNELL certification. Opposers say the SNELL rating makes helmets too hard so they crack like an egg where as a DOT only helmet would crush and crumple like... a soda can or something. There was a now [in]famous article from motorcyclist and they did a test on a bunch of helmets including expensive shoei, arai, suomy etc. Results showed the cheap Z1R DOT only helmet took the least damage to the head while harder materials like fiberglass and Snell approved helmets took more damage to the head. heres the link if anyone wants to read. http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...iew/index.html while I agree the 250 is enough for anyone, I will definitely upgrade because I have a 20 mile commute on the freeway and im not a fan of screaming at 10k rpms all day.

August 7th, 2009, 04:31 AM	#30
mcteague ninjette.org member Name: Tim Location: Maryland Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Yamaha FZ6 Posts: 117	Sorry to be part of the topic drift but, what the hell... As others have already mentioned, SUVs are not all that safe. I don't think I've ever seen a car on it's side after a crash but have seen many SUVs in this position. On top of that, they further compromise the safety of regular cars by blocking their view and putting a bumper at nearly eyeball level. Saying huge vehicles were purchased for safety sounds like guys who make the same claim for loud pipes. It's really about ego...that whole "look at me" thing. I just don't get it. Tim

August 7th, 2009, 05:20 AM	#31
CC Cowboy ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Whodat Location: Ware Is.,MA Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): I pass the wind! Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '13, Jun '14	I thought the 250 was strictly a stunt bike. After a few wheelies, a few stoppies, and a ton of tickets for loud pipes, burnouts, excessive speed I have a different opinion. __________________________________________________ If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough!

August 7th, 2009, 05:40 AM	#32
adouglas Cat herder Name: Gort Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 6 MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13	On an otherwise level playing field, mass wins. This is obvious. But it's not as simple as that. A smaller, lighter, more nimble vehicle may (MAY) be able to avoid the crash in the first place. Doesn't mean it will. (BMW actually used this as an argument in an advertising campaign a few years ago.) All that mass means a lot of momentum, and that means it's difficult to get it to change direction and stop, particularly in slippery conditions. This is simple physics and is indisputable. I live in the Northeast, and it's almost a cliche at this point... the first big snowstorm every year, the vehicles you see having spun out are mostly large SUVs and pickups. This is anecdotal, however, and should not be trusted. (Personally I blame lack of driver understanding, but that's a different discussion.) Equipment and vehicle design is a very important factor in how well the passengers fare in a crash. So... let's take it out of the realm of assertion and commonly held belief and into the realm of experimentally derived data, gathered under fair, consistent conditions. Go to the NHTSA website (http://www.safecar.gov) and check the data. The crash tests are standardized, so it's possible to compare apples to apples. Let go of preconceived notions and look at the actual results. Look up the 2006 Chevy Silverado (the badge name of the Chevy 2500, and as near as I can tell the last year they offered the 8.1 liter engine). Front driver rating: Four stars (out of five) Front passenger rating: Three stars Side driver rating: Not tested Side rear passenger rating: Not tested Rollover 2 wheel drive rating: Four stars Rollover 4 wheel drive rating: Four stars Not bad, actually. Then look up my car... the 2007 Honda Fit, which has ABS, traction control, dual-stage front airbags, side airbags, curtain airbags and seat belt tensioners. Front driver rating: *FIVE* stars (out of five) Front passenger rating: *FIVE* stars Side driver rating: *FIVE* stars Side rear passenger rating: Three stars Rollover 2 wheel drive rating: Four stars Rollover 4 wheel drive rating: Not applicable Conclusion: When factors OTHER than mass and size are taken into account, you can get greater survivability through the use of safety technology and design. I'm not just beating my breast about whether my choice of vehicle is "better" than yours (a faulty concept anyway...I like my car and you like your truck, and that's all that matters). I'm just looking at objective data that directly compares one vehicle to the other. I feel quite safe in my Fit. Doesn't mean you would. In the interest of fairness I should note that if you look up the latest Silverado (not available with the 8.1 liter, so not the truck we're talking about here) you get better results. They ARE doing a better job these days. But that doesn't negate the fact that a well-designed and well-equipped smaller car CAN protect you adequately in a crash.

August 7th, 2009, 05:50 PM	#33
NaughtyusMaximus ninjette.org member Name: Jordan Location: Calgary Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 ex250 Posts: 98	Some of you guys might be interested in these links regarding vehicle safety: http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html http://bridger.us/2002/12/16/CrashTe...perVsFordF150/ Coles notes: The better maneuverability of smaller vehicles means you're less likely to get into that head on accident with a large vehicle in the first place.

August 7th, 2009, 08:37 PM	#34
istreefitty sir posts a lot Name: michael Location: HI Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Black 250R Posts: 267	wow this thread took 2 right turns lol Back to the topic, I agree with what andrewexd. Highway speeds at 9k rpms is not ideal. I can promise anyone that if they made the 500 look as good as the 250 I would buy because that is all someone would need ( I am part of the group of riders that chose the 250 over a SV650 or a buel blast because of the aesthetics and wonderful forum here) __________________________________________________ A girl walks into a bar and orders a "double entendre" So the bartender gave it to her "once you go black, you never go back."

August 7th, 2009, 10:26 PM	#35
andrewexd ninjette.org guru Name: Andrew Location: LA Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 07 GSXR600 (N250 sold :( ) Posts: 415	^ true. I would get a 500 if it wasn't so outdated... I was thinking of getting a sv650 or ninja 650 but I chose not to and my dad would allow it lol ( i didnt even bother asking he wanted me to get a harley/cruiser he rides a harley ) .... If I upgrade early I will probably go to a ninja 650, if I upgrade later probably to a 600 super sport.

August 8th, 2009, 09:15 AM	#36
sofo ninjette.org guru Name: Andrew Location: Vancouver, BC Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 410	An updated 500R would be a very interesting bike. Both in terms of it's place in Kawasaki's line, as well as it's effect on 250R and 650R sales. I'd like to see a Z500. Bring back the Z750/Z1000 styling but with a detuned ZX-6R engine. Not likely to happen I know, but that would be a fantastic bike. If the Ninja 250 is all you need, what's lacking to make it what you want? Is there just a chasm between need and the silly want of a middleweight or 1000cc supersport?

August 8th, 2009, 11:27 PM	#37
andrewexd ninjette.org guru Name: Andrew Location: LA Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 07 GSXR600 (N250 sold :( ) Posts: 415	I don't think I Would ever buy a liter sport bike... 1. they are scary, and 2. 600 is enough!

August 11th, 2009, 02:09 AM	#40
Daeldren two wheel addict Name: Kenneth Location: Simpsonville, SC Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 94 xlh 883, 1984 kawi gpz money pit Posts: 556	Wait a min, I thought you needed the power to weight ratio of an Indy car to pass traffic comfortably?