Huge brake problems and questions.

kareface · September 4th, 2011, 07:54 PM

I have a 2009 SE EX250 and I need some help. Pretty much everything on the bike is stock outside of a few things that had to get replaced from wear, it's only got a little over 4K miles on it. The front break pads have plenty of life on them, not even being conservative. I've been having trouble with the front breaks recently and I wondered if anyone might know the cause. So, when I first got the bike it would break really well. As time wore on the breaks seemed to become less effective. I thought it might be in my head but now it's gotten to the point where others noticed as well. The break lever doesn't go limp or anything along those lines. It just seems that when I apply force to the breaks it doesn't slow down as effectively as it used to.

Also, the last couple days I had a few strange instances where I would apply the breaks and it would slow me a little, but maybe at 20% of the rate of normal. A couple days ago I overshot a stop light that I was coasting up to because I didn't expect my breaks to be so ineffective. My back breaks are fine and stop much better than my front. It's just a little unnerving to no have your breaks work. It's only happened a couple times and I looked through everything and couldn't find a single problem with the breaks. What makes it stranger is it would only happen occasionally and there didn't seem to be any trigger, the breaks would just be randomly less effective.

I called a friend to have him come take a look and if needed replace the entire front breaking system. I was going to meet him at 1pm yesterday but stuff happened and we ended up meeting up closer to 10pm. Naturally I took the bike out and sure enough it happened again. This time I was getting onto the south bound on ramp, I was coasting, doing at max 15-20mph. I had tons of room between me an the van ahead of me. I tried to break and sure enough it didn't slow me down. I made a quick left to the space between the van ahead of me and the curb to avoid slamming into the back o the van and wailed on my rear breaks, promptly slamming into the pavement. I just scraped my knee and killed my left turn signal, otherwise everything is fine.

Post crash I'm confident this breaking problem isn't in my head. Something is wrong with the breaks but I can't find any actual problems with the breaks. My friend who is very knowledgeable about bike maintenance (he's building a bike from the frame up) couldn't find a problem outside of the the break pads do seem to be unevenly worn, the back portion of the pad seems to be worn down more than the front by a considerable amount. He did say they feel strange when riding on them, they seem to break inconsistently, like they aren't gripping well at times. He didn't notice the outright failure like I experienced, but he only rode it for a 12 blocks or so.

I'm replacing the break pads, the break lines and the breaking fluid. I'm getting very good quality replacements in the hopes this fixes things. However I would like to know what on earth caused this problem. I have the breaks pulled off right now so if anyone has any ideas please shoot. I want to make sure this doesn't happen again.

AeroXtasy · September 4th, 2011, 07:58 PM

I believe the problem should be fixed after replacing the brake pads and lines.
Lines are what I'd think could cause it, but honestly I'm not knowledgeable enough for what I tell you to be credible.

Good thin you were only going 15-20mph when the brakes went out and that you're alright!

Felipe the Ant · September 4th, 2011, 08:02 PM

You may have a collapsed hose or just air in the system somehow. You checked to make sure you had fluid right?

kareface · September 5th, 2011, 01:57 AM

Fluid was fine. It was fine even after the crash. The thing that gets me is the irregularity of the problem. It didn't happen every time. There was some reduction in breaking efficacy between now and when I got the bike but nothing compared to when it decides to cut out. It's as if the bike breaks at a half or a quarter of its ability when that happens. I was rolling down hill with the clutched disengaged with plenty of room to stop and the break pulled really damn hard; I just kept rolling. Leading up to that point in the ride I was breaking fine, so I'm not sure what the problem is.

SteveL · September 5th, 2011, 02:21 AM

One thing that can happen is if you don’t brake hard often the pads become glassed and therefore don’t work efficiently you should always brake hard once or twice each time you go out to stop this.

Steve

kareface · September 5th, 2011, 05:21 AM

Good to know. I will take those measures in the future but I doubt that it relates to the problem I had during the crash. That's what has been bothering me.

leed · September 5th, 2011, 07:08 AM

It's also a possibility you have a seized piston.

And simply for reference..

Brake =/= Break.

rockNroll · September 5th, 2011, 09:00 AM

A stuck caliper slide

reaperw · September 5th, 2011, 09:11 AM

Try the simple things first at $6 you can buy some new brake fluid and re flush your system,also look for wet on the hoses or any brake part maybe there a leak/crack only under persure.I would try and re tighting all brake parts maybe something came loose.Pads are only $35 if after all this it dose not stop better take it to a shop because its not worth your life over a bit of money

kareface · September 5th, 2011, 12:13 PM

According to my friend it defiantly not a stuck caliper slide, he said "he could move it with his finger." He said the piston problem is possible and he was planing to check for it once the new parts arrive.

alex.s · September 5th, 2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockNroll

A stuck caliper slide

+1.

sounds like old fluid separated and got something nasty stuck in one of the pistons. you say "fluid was fine"... you mean the fluid level? or you actually drained all the fluid and looked at it and checked for water in it

kareface · September 5th, 2011, 05:22 PM

Fluid level was fine, we are checking the fluid once the new parts arrive. Is this something that'll likely not return given what maintenance is being done? Also is this something that would have been intermittent?

September 4th, 2011, 07:54 PM	#1
kareface ninjette.org newbie Name: Nate Location: Seattle Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r SE Posts: 9	Huge brake problems and questions. I have a 2009 SE EX250 and I need some help. Pretty much everything on the bike is stock outside of a few things that had to get replaced from wear, it's only got a little over 4K miles on it. The front break pads have plenty of life on them, not even being conservative. I've been having trouble with the front breaks recently and I wondered if anyone might know the cause. So, when I first got the bike it would break really well. As time wore on the breaks seemed to become less effective. I thought it might be in my head but now it's gotten to the point where others noticed as well. The break lever doesn't go limp or anything along those lines. It just seems that when I apply force to the breaks it doesn't slow down as effectively as it used to. Also, the last couple days I had a few strange instances where I would apply the breaks and it would slow me a little, but maybe at 20% of the rate of normal. A couple days ago I overshot a stop light that I was coasting up to because I didn't expect my breaks to be so ineffective. My back breaks are fine and stop much better than my front. It's just a little unnerving to no have your breaks work. It's only happened a couple times and I looked through everything and couldn't find a single problem with the breaks. What makes it stranger is it would only happen occasionally and there didn't seem to be any trigger, the breaks would just be randomly less effective. I called a friend to have him come take a look and if needed replace the entire front breaking system. I was going to meet him at 1pm yesterday but stuff happened and we ended up meeting up closer to 10pm. Naturally I took the bike out and sure enough it happened again. This time I was getting onto the south bound on ramp, I was coasting, doing at max 15-20mph. I had tons of room between me an the van ahead of me. I tried to break and sure enough it didn't slow me down. I made a quick left to the space between the van ahead of me and the curb to avoid slamming into the back o the van and wailed on my rear breaks, promptly slamming into the pavement. I just scraped my knee and killed my left turn signal, otherwise everything is fine. Post crash I'm confident this breaking problem isn't in my head. Something is wrong with the breaks but I can't find any actual problems with the breaks. My friend who is very knowledgeable about bike maintenance (he's building a bike from the frame up) couldn't find a problem outside of the the break pads do seem to be unevenly worn, the back portion of the pad seems to be worn down more than the front by a considerable amount. He did say they feel strange when riding on them, they seem to break inconsistently, like they aren't gripping well at times. He didn't notice the outright failure like I experienced, but he only rode it for a 12 blocks or so. I'm replacing the break pads, the break lines and the breaking fluid. I'm getting very good quality replacements in the hopes this fixes things. However I would like to know what on earth caused this problem. I have the breaks pulled off right now so if anyone has any ideas please shoot. I want to make sure this doesn't happen again.

September 4th, 2011, 07:58 PM	#2
AeroXtasy New 2-Wheel Addict Name: Reece Location: Bardstown Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): Blue 2009 250r Kawasaki Ninja Posts: 129	I believe the problem should be fixed after replacing the brake pads and lines. Lines are what I'd think could cause it, but honestly I'm not knowledgeable enough for what I tell you to be credible. Good thin you were only going 15-20mph when the brakes went out and that you're alright! __________________________________________________ Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul. Last futzed with by AeroXtasy; September 5th, 2011 at 07:23 AM.

September 5th, 2011, 02:21 AM	#5
SteveL old git Name: Steve Location: Geneve Switzerland Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW K1300S Posts: 479	One thing that can happen is if you don’t brake hard often the pads become glassed and therefore don’t work efficiently you should always brake hard once or twice each time you go out to stop this. Steve __________________________________________________ Some mistakes are too much fun to make only once.

September 5th, 2011, 09:00 AM	#8
rockNroll . Name: rock Location: greenville, south carolina Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): black Posts: A lot.	A stuck caliper slide __________________________________________________ Always get a second opinion because most of these people are makin' this stuff up

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September 4th, 2011, 08:02 PM	#3
Felipe the Ant ninjette.org sage Name: . Location: . Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R SE GREEN! Posts: 562	You may have a collapsed hose or just air in the system somehow. You checked to make sure you had fluid right?

September 5th, 2011, 01:57 AM	#4
kareface ninjette.org newbie Name: Nate Location: Seattle Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r SE Posts: 9	Fluid was fine. It was fine even after the crash. The thing that gets me is the irregularity of the problem. It didn't happen every time. There was some reduction in breaking efficacy between now and when I got the bike but nothing compared to when it decides to cut out. It's as if the bike breaks at a half or a quarter of its ability when that happens. I was rolling down hill with the clutched disengaged with plenty of room to stop and the break pulled really damn hard; I just kept rolling. Leading up to that point in the ride I was breaking fine, so I'm not sure what the problem is.

September 5th, 2011, 05:21 AM	#6
kareface ninjette.org newbie Name: Nate Location: Seattle Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r SE Posts: 9	Good to know. I will take those measures in the future but I doubt that it relates to the problem I had during the crash. That's what has been bothering me.

September 5th, 2011, 07:08 AM	#7
leed ninjette.org sage Name: David Location: Loves Park, IL Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): Time will tell Posts: 969	It's also a possibility you have a seized piston. And simply for reference.. Brake =/= Break.

September 5th, 2011, 09:11 AM	#9
reaperw ninjette.org member Name: Ian Location: newmarket Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): ninja 250 Posts: 191	Try the simple things first at $6 you can buy some new brake fluid and re flush your system,also look for wet on the hoses or any brake part maybe there a leak/crack only under persure.I would try and re tighting all brake parts maybe something came loose.Pads are only $35 if after all this it dose not stop better take it to a shop because its not worth your life over a bit of money

September 5th, 2011, 12:13 PM	#10
kareface ninjette.org newbie Name: Nate Location: Seattle Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r SE Posts: 9	According to my friend it defiantly not a stuck caliper slide, he said "he could move it with his finger." He said the piston problem is possible and he was planing to check for it once the new parts arrive.

September 5th, 2011, 05:22 PM	#12
kareface ninjette.org newbie Name: Nate Location: Seattle Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r SE Posts: 9	Fluid level was fine, we are checking the fluid once the new parts arrive. Is this something that'll likely not return given what maintenance is being done? Also is this something that would have been intermittent?