Warning: Stop buying the Tridon EL12 Flasher relay

[CThunder-blue]

I wanted to warn people away from buying the Tridon EL-12 Flasher Relay. Please please please stop buying them. They do not work with 4 LED blinkers. They are ok if you only have front or rear LED blinkers, but will not work if you have all 4. I understand that it has 2 prongs and makes it easy to install, but it just won't work when you switch to 4 LED's. I get asked at least once a week about helping someone troubleshoot their blinkers and it invariably leads back to their EL12 relay.

Here are 2 PROVEN options:

1. Tridon EP34 relay. Can be found at just about any autoparts store, or can be easily ordered from amazon. It has 3 prongs, each marked B,L,&E. You ground the E pin on the relay. To do this, you get about 12" of wire, attach a 14ga female spade connector to one end and a ring terminal on the other end. You slip the female spade connector onto the E-pin, then bolt the ring terminal to a ground somewhere on your bike.

2. CF12ANL-01 flasher relay- 2 prongs so you don't need to add any ground wires, but you will likely need to order from that website. Those relays aren't found at your local auto store or amazon.

[Alex]

Thanks, Tri.

[CThunder-blue]

No problem Alex. I just wanted to make a public service announcement

It's funny if you google the EL12 relay, you'll find other bike forum posts that are asking why they're having problems with 4 LED blinkers and the EL12. It's not just on our bikes, it's widespread. I think I read in one of our DIY's about using the EL12 and it being ok, but I also believe that the person didn't have 4 LED blinkers.

[kelnix]

thanks for the warning !

[alex.s]

Hey tri, i just installed 4 led turn signals but they don't flash! can you help me?

[CThunder-blue]

Haha. Yeah, sell your bike

[greatwhiteninja]

i would be one of these once a week people

[Mazakawi]

Nice timing with this post. I just ordered led flushmounts and an integrated taillight last night.

Of those 2 options which is better?

[CThunder-blue]

Neither is better than the other. Just pick the one you feel you will be ok with.

[caps]

I just ordered the bottom one

[CZroe]

Can the CF12ANL-01 plug into the stock connector? The bike is not "American" and it says it's typical for "American" automobiles.

This CF-12AN-L on eBay seems to require ground though there is no mention in the description.

[CThunder-blue]

Paul (Momaru) highly recommends the CF12ANL-01 and from looking at the pin placement, it shouldn't have a problem plugging into the 250R. As far as needing a ground, if it does, then I'm sure you guys can figure it out.

[Mr.E]

Edit Never mind. EP34 works great. Thanks!

[Mr.E]

EDIT for this post: Nevermind, I notice it was just a random wire that looked like it was in the back of the relay, lol.

Another edit: Never mind. I got it to work. I connected it wrong. Sorry. Btw, the blinkers look great. Thanks! lol

[choneofakind]

I use the LF1-S with the FLAT connectors from superbrightleds.com. It's plug and play, and so far, I have had any issues with LED signals on front and back. Only thing you need to use it is a ziptie to keep it secured, as the mounting tab is not the same as the stock one.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-b...2Fflashers.htm

[Mazakawi]

Used the EP34 with my integrated taillight that I installed yesterday. Works perfectly.

[Kanestar]

wow, im lucky i stopped by the forum today. I was going to buy a relay today after school. Thanks brrraaaaah

[CThunder-blue]

I need to bump this again. Still getting messaged about people with EL-12 Relays. Soon, I'll start carrying a new flasher that will be plug and play! No extra wire to ground.

[MikeBudd]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

I need to bump this again. Still getting messaged about people with EL-12 Relays. Soon, I'll start carrying a new flasher that will be plug and play! No extra wire to ground.

Nice! That will clean things up a bit.

[heirfaus]

Heads up, the EP34 does not work with all LED's. Sadly, I found this out. I recently put LED's on the back. Worked fine. Put some on the front. Now everything just turns on when I use the left or right signals. These are what I bought:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270593932476...84.m1497.l2649

Any ides on how to get them to flash.

Yes, the E pin is grounded to the battery.

Thanks for any help

[CThunder-blue]

It does work. It's not the relay at fault. You need a diode kit. http://modmy250.com/LP.html

[heirfaus]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

It does work. It's not the relay at fault. You need a diode kit. http://modmy250.com/LP.html

I guess I didn't mean to say it won't work, I was just under the impression it was plug and play with the EP34. Thanks for the clarification.

[CZroe]

PAGING @CThunder-blue!

Hello, Tri. You seem to be the guy to ask about this.

First of all, the Tridon EP34 energizes the extra prong when the lights blink off, correct? So the power alternates between blinkers and the third prong (ground) rather than simply switching on and off to the blinkers? If so, then I want to use the constant power going to it while the blinkers are active as a trigger for another relay. This other relay will turn off my brake and tail lights while the turn signal are active. Don't worry, I intend to have auxiliary brake and tail lights. This is purely to increase contrast with the cheap integrated one I already have. Now, I obviously can't use the CF12ANL-01 flasher relay to trigger the second relay because the power must be flowing intermittently through both sides while the signals are active.

I still have a lot of questions you might be able to help me out with. I think I've figured out how to wire in auxiliary brake and running lights and have the original ones shut off while the blinkers are active. If I wire a series of brake lights and a series of running lights I can then use a relay with a couple diodes to create a switched common ground after the first bulb in each series.



Will this work? I'm worried that the power will not take the newly opened path to ground that the relay opens up and will still light up the second light in each series. There will be a voltage drop from the diodes.

About the diagram:
LTS = Left Turn Signals
RTS = Right Turn Signals
DI = Dash Indicator
R = Running Light
AR = Auxiliary Running Light
B = Brake Light
AB = Auxiliary Brake Light

The switch at the top represents both brake light switches.
The replacement three-prong Tridon EP34 flasher relay is the one on the bottom.
The split power I show going into it would actually be internal to it (shared/common terminal). That's how I imagine it works if the supply is constant and diverts to ground when the lights blink off yet stops when the selection is canceled.
This will be the trigger for the second relay (top one), which opens up a ground after the first set of lights in the series.
The diodes keep each series of bulbs from feeding power through each other so that the brake light doesn't light with the running light and such.
I only diagrammed the turn signals and dash indicator so that it was obvious what that two-way normal-open switch did.

So, the top relay is triggered when the turn signals are flashing and makes a new ground for AB and AR before B and R. It's still connected to B and R, but my understanding is that electricity takes the shortest path of least resistance. That said, the voltage drop across the diodes may mean it isn't the path of least resistance. Will it work? If not, how would you recommend I do this? THREE relays?

[CThunder-blue]

It's a misconception that Ground = discharge. The third prong on the EP34 supplies voltage. Electrons flow from negative to positive. What we think of as ground is actually the bike's system to provide voltage. It's the reason why people always tell you to disconnect the negative cable from the battery before the positive.

I've been reading your posts and I would suggest using SPDT relays. http://www.bugmanweb.com/gsxr/turnsignal.html scroll down to half the page and check out the "Madness" method. It's what you want to do.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

It's a misconception that Ground = discharge. The third prong on the EP34 supplies voltage. Electrons flow from negative to positive. What we think of as ground is actually the bike's system to provide voltage. It's the reason why people always tell you to disconnect the negative cable from the battery before the positive.

I've been reading your posts and I would suggest using SPDT relays. http://www.bugmanweb.com/gsxr/turnsignal.html scroll down to half the page and check out the "Madness" method. It's what you want to do.

Thanks, Tri.

Yes, I've heard that but it's still conceptually the same, right? Like lightning actually comes from the ground but it still takes the shortest path to get "to" it from above (tree, pole, lightning rod, person with no trees around, etc).

It looks like I've got a lot of reading to do. It should all be applicable here and elsewhere in the future, so I'm sure it's worth it even for such a small thing as my tail light issue.

[NevadaWolf]

Free bump since hey, I've got an EL12 currently on my bike.

Thankfully Napa had an EP34 on hand.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

It's the reason why people always tell you to disconnect the negative cable from the battery before the positive.

Actually, it's because the frame/body is used as a ground. Since the negative terminal is already connected to the metal of the vehicle, it's not a big deal if your wrench bridges the negative terminal to the vehicle while you're removing it.

If you disconnect the positive first and happen to touch your wrench against the vehicle, you'll be directly shorting it out. If you disconnect the negative terminal from the vehicle first, then you're not completing any circuit if you happen to bridge the positive terminal to the vehicle while you're removing it.

Disconnecting either cable from its terminal breaks the circuit. Doing the negative first removes all the nearby metal from being a conductor in the circuit though, which then makes it safer to do the positive.

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

Actually, it's because the frame/body is used as a ground. Since the negative terminal is already connected to the metal of the vehicle, it's not a big deal if your wrench bridges the negative terminal to the vehicle while you're removing it.

If you disconnect the positive first and happen to touch your wrench against the vehicle, you'll be directly shorting it out. If you disconnect the negative terminal from the vehicle first, then you're not completing any circuit if you happen to bridge the positive terminal to the vehicle while you're removing it.

Disconnecting either cable from its terminal breaks the circuit. Doing the negative first removes all the nearby metal from being a conductor in the circuit though, which then makes it safer to do the positive.

I don't think you've said anything that contradicts what I've said before. The chassis isn't a ground. It's the conducting material so that electrons will flow from negative to positive.

To take your example, if you disconnect the neg first, then you bridge the positive to the chassis, nothing will happen either. There's no current drawn from the negative side of the battery.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

I don't think you've said anything that contradicts what I've said before. The chassis isn't a ground. It's the conducting material so that electrons will flow from negative to positive.

In this usage, "ground" is equivalent to "negative". DC like this just has a positive and negative (also commonly referred to as ground), unlike AC where there's a ground distinct from the hot and neutral.

Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_polarity

Modern cars have a "negative earth" electrical system. In this case the negative terminal of the battery is bonded to the vehicle's chassis (the metallic body work) and the positive terminal provides the "live" wire to the various systems. However, some older cars were built with a "positive earth" electrical system, in this case the positive terminal of the battery is bonded to the chassis and the negative terminal for the live.

They're even called "negative ground/earth" systems. The chassis is a ground specifically because it acts as a conductor in the negative half of the circuit.

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

To take your example, if you disconnect the neg first, then you bridge the positive to the chassis, nothing will happen either. There's no current drawn from the negative side of the battery.

That was the first part of my example. If you remove the negative first, and accidentally touch the wrench against metal while doing so, nothing happens because the negative is already connected to the metal (there's no difference in potential, aka voltage, because they're wired together). Then when you remove the positive, if you accidentally touch metal, nothing happens because you've already broken the circuit (the metal is no longer connected to the negative terminal of the battery).

If you remove the positive first and accidentally touch metal, you're grounding out the positive terminal directly through your wrench (i.e. completing the circuit between positive and negative). Since the negative terminal is wired to the chassis, touching the back of your wrench to the metal while trying to remove the positive is the equivalent of laying your wrench directly across both terminals of the battery.

Regardless of which terminal you start with, the circuit is equally broken after the first terminal is disconnected (making the second terminal "dead" while you're working on it). However, one way is much safer in case you do happen to slip while removing the first one. In an older "positive ground" vehicle, you'd want to disconnect the positive first to avoid accidentally shorting out the negative terminal against the positive chassis. It has nothing to do with which way the electrons flow, but with the physical layout of metal (which happens to be connected to the electrical system) around the terminals.


And getting back to the original topic of flashers, the EX500 guys have found that some off-brand EP34 "equivalents" (like the Blazer FL34) don't work properly with LEDs. As soon as they got an actual Tridon EP34, it worked exactly like it was supposed to. The LF1-S-FLAT from SuperBrightLEDs.com (as mentioned above by chone) is a PnP replacement on the later EX500 too, and has worked flawlessly for me with OEM bulbs and LED replacements. It's worth a couple extra bucks to me to be able to just plug it in, rather than taking the time to chop up my harness to match a generic flasher.

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

And getting back to the original topic of flashers, the EX500 guys have found that some off-brand EP34 "equivalents" (like the Blazer FL34) don't work properly with LEDs. As soon as they got an actual Tridon EP34, it worked exactly like it was supposed to. The LF1-S-FLAT from SuperBrightLEDs.com (as mentioned above by chone) is a PnP replacement on the later EX500 too, and has worked flawlessly for me with OEM bulbs and LED replacements. It's worth a couple extra bucks to me to be able to just plug it in, rather than taking the time to chop up my harness to match a generic flasher.

Ah heck, that might be my problem with my Napa EP34....

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

In this usage, "ground" is equivalent to "negative". DC like this just has a positive and negative (also commonly referred to as ground), unlike AC where there's a ground distinct from the hot and neutral.



They're even called "negative ground/earth" systems. The chassis is a ground specifically because it acts as a conductor in the negative half of the circuit.




That was the first part of my example. If you remove the negative first, and accidentally touch the wrench against metal while doing so, nothing happens because the negative is already connected to the metal (there's no difference in potential, aka voltage, because they're wired together). Then when you remove the positive, if you accidentally touch metal, nothing happens because you've already broken the circuit (the metal is no longer connected to the negative terminal of the battery).

If you remove the positive first and accidentally touch metal, you're grounding out the positive terminal directly through your wrench (i.e. completing the circuit between positive and negative). Since the negative terminal is wired to the chassis, touching the back of your wrench to the metal while trying to remove the positive is the equivalent of laying your wrench directly across both terminals of the battery.

Regardless of which terminal you start with, the circuit is equally broken after the first terminal is disconnected (making the second terminal "dead" while you're working on it). However, one way is much safer in case you do happen to slip while removing the first one. In an older "positive ground" vehicle, you'd want to disconnect the positive first to avoid accidentally shorting out the negative terminal against the positive chassis. It has nothing to do with which way the electrons flow, but with the physical layout of metal (which happens to be connected to the electrical system) around the terminals.


And getting back to the original topic of flashers, the EX500 guys have found that some off-brand EP34 "equivalents" (like the Blazer FL34) don't work properly with LEDs. As soon as they got an actual Tridon EP34, it worked exactly like it was supposed to. The LF1-S-FLAT from SuperBrightLEDs.com (as mentioned above by chone) is a PnP replacement on the later EX500 too, and has worked flawlessly for me with OEM bulbs and LED replacements. It's worth a couple extra bucks to me to be able to just plug it in, rather than taking the time to chop up my harness to match a generic flasher.

You're not saying anything different than what I'm saying, except how we differ on semantics. As far as old vehicles using positive ground systems, since the 250 isn't one, there's no point in bringing it up.

TLDR- just disconnect the negative side of the battery to avoid any unpleasant surprises.

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

Ah heck, that might be my problem with my Napa EP34....

I thought you had gotten the Tridon Ep34. haha.

[NevadaWolf]

Nope, Napa only had their version. Thought EP34 was EP34.